rensoup Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 3 hours ago, ivop said: It took six days with varying hours per day, and about 20-25 hours in total, including creating all the instruments. ouch... 2 hours ago, ivop said: Sorry, there's not yet a way, other than to type in all the notes, and patterns, and song data manually. That's what I did, and recognize the different instruments and those that start with a hat. You have to know how to read the register dump. Some knowledge about the SID chip's working is necessary. 81 is noise with gate bit, 41 or 21 is note with gate bit, i.e. the start of a new note. So after doing that manual conversion do you think it's possible to automate it (at least the pattern data) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, emkay said: Day has ended. So here it was is done nice sounds (as usual!), in tune too but the tune itself is a little ? (sorry to the author) Can't have it all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 7, 2020 Author Share Posted December 7, 2020 8 hours ago, rensoup said: nice sounds (as usual!), in tune too but the tune itself is a little ? (sorry to the author) Can't have it all... I liked the original for it's timbre at the start. Somehow sounding like a fresh breeze in the sunshine. It gets boring then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIX Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) really excellent work guys ? I always wondered how c64's Ghouls 'n' Ghosts music would translate to the 8bit.. Since we are looking for that kind of organ/ambient music for our "secret" upcoming game, it would be interesting to hear your renditions ! ..of course we need to save a channel for sfx Edited December 7, 2020 by TIX 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 12 hours ago, emkay said: Day has ended. So here it was is done some shortcomings but overall very interesting :] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, emkay said: It gets boring then. No for me ? Edited December 7, 2020 by zbyti typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, rensoup said: ouch... So after doing that manual conversion do you think it's possible to automate it (at least the pattern data) ? It turns out to be a lot harder than I expected. One reason for doing this manual conversion was to get more familiar with siddump's output. There are a lot of problems to automate this. 1. Find out how many bytes frames to skip at the begining (0 for noisy pillars, but 4 for freeze). 2. Do a test dump and try to figure out the pattern length (96 for both, although XLent's transcription used only 64 because there were no triplets). 3. Dump with siddump -f4 -n6 -p16 -t117 Freeze.sid , which means skip 4 frames, one (16th) note is 6 frames, 16 notes per frame (1 bar), 117 seconds. So far so good. Now you can clean up the start and end manually (exact pattern lines). After that I want write a script that cuts that file up in pieces of 96 lines. That are all the song lines. Then cut up all the 96 pieces in three files. While creating a new file, check if one similar has already been created. If so, symlink. If not, write to disk. Afterwards, you end up with a bunch of files: songline00_pat00, songline00_pat01, songline_00_pat02 songline01_pat03--->symlink to songline00 etc... Now comes the hard part and that's extracting the right notes. Siddump puts non-notes between (), arpeggios for example, but fails to notice notes that have a percussive hi-hat in front. Best would be to check for each note that has the gate bit set, no matter whether siddump thinks it's a note or not. Arpeggios and glissandos must be done manually during instrument creation. Speaking of instruments, determining to which instrument a note belongs is not that easy, too. Perhaps compare the WF/ADSR/Pul columns between setting and clearing the gate bit? Edited December 7, 2020 by ivop 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 7, 2020 Author Share Posted December 7, 2020 8 hours ago, TIX said: really excellent work guys ? I always wondered how c64's Ghouls 'n' Ghosts music would translate to the 8bit.. Since we are looking for that kind of organ/ambient music for our "secret" upcoming game, it would be interesting to hear your renditions ! ..of course we need to save a channel for sfx Tim Follin tunes do better without PWM. Here is a version that I started back in 2009. It needs the 16 bit ... but RMT .... Here is what I got , sometimes it's like a full stroke , sometimes .... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, emkay said: Here is what I got , sometimes it's like a full stroke , sometimes .... During the first 48 seconds, a full stroke did not occur After that, it's not too bad. I like the break at 1:06! 1:20 and onwards, there's a bunch of patterns that need better "sound design". 1:46 it gets better again, 1:55 the band kicks in. 2:04 sounds pretty nice, although at 2:17 it's a bit out of tune Rumble, rumble 2:43 wake up. From there on, it's a lot better, but hit or miss sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 7, 2020 Author Share Posted December 7, 2020 43 minutes ago, ivop said: During the first 48 seconds, a full stroke did not occur After that, it's not too bad. I like the break at 1:06! 1:20 and onwards, there's a bunch of patterns that need better "sound design". 1:46 it gets better again, 1:55 the band kicks in. 2:04 sounds pretty nice, although at 2:17 it's a bit out of tune Rumble, rumble 2:43 wake up. From there on, it's a lot better, but hit or miss sometimes. hmmm... let's check things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderDude Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 This will probably be the last version. Listed are the changes made in version 4: Used distortion C instead of distortion E for the alternate "burping" instrument. Added vibrato to the lead instrument in the part from 0:42 to 0:57 and fake portamento to the bass in the part from 0:26 to 0:42 (using real portamento with distortion C just sounds like noise). 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 I would give up those weird sounds (form 0:27), I know they are in the original but in my opinion they spoil your perfect cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderDude Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Ah. I guess I can make a separate version more like the ZX version in that part. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 7, 2020 Author Share Posted December 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, EnderDude said: Ah. I guess I can make a separate version more like the ZX version in that part. would you share the patterns where that "drums" appear? incl. the relevant instruments. I'd like to try something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderDude Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, emkay said: would you share the patterns where that "drums" appear? incl. the relevant instruments. I'd like to try something. Sure thing! Might as well share the whole thing at this point lol Bionic_Stage_1.rmt Edited December 7, 2020 by EnderDude 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 7, 2020 Author Share Posted December 7, 2020 43 minutes ago, EnderDude said: Sure thing! Might as well share the whole thing at this point lol Bionic_Stage_1.rmt 4.79 kB · 4 downloads OK. Sure the notes are correct with the drum? Here is the proposal. Y Bionic_Stage_1mk.rmt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderDude Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, emkay said: OK. Sure the notes are correct with the drum? Here is the proposal. Y Bionic_Stage_1mk.rmt 4.91 kB · 1 download Ah...now I get it. I didn't get what you meant earlier. I like how you somewhat combined both the spectrum and c64 version into one instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 8 hours ago, ivop said: It turns out to be a lot harder than I expected. One reason for doing this manual conversion was to get more familiar with siddump's output. There are a lot of problems to automate this. ? That's... impractical... I didn't realize siddump was the C64 equivalent of SAPR, just getting pattern length is a mess.. Why not just do a goattracker to rmt converter then ? Not sure if you've seen the C64 debugger's tracker feature ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN1FMnTrv3M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 5 hours ago, emkay said: Tim Follin tunes do better without PWM. Here is a version that I started back in 2009. It needs the 16 bit ... but RMT .... Here is what I got , sometimes it's like a full stroke , sometimes .... What about that really nice atmospheric part in the original (from 0:00 to 3:.. ) ? doable with Pokey ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 27 minutes ago, rensoup said: ? That's... impractical... I didn't realize siddump was the C64 equivalent of SAPR, just getting pattern length is a mess.. Yes, that's exactly what it is. A raw 50Hz register dump. And then try to reverse engineer that As proven, it can be done by hand, but automation is something else all together. 27 minutes ago, rensoup said: Why not just do a goattracker to rmt converter then ? Emkay and I have talked about that, but there are just not enough goattracker files available to justify the effort. Or can you point us to an archive of goattracker files? 27 minutes ago, rensoup said: Not sure if you've seen the C64 debugger's tracker feature ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN1FMnTrv3M Hadn't seen it yet. Looks nice! But the three colors on the keyboards are just the three SID channels. There's no detection of instruments or anything more sophisticated. But it's a nice visual effect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 29 minutes ago, rensoup said: What about that really nice atmospheric part in the original (from 0:00 to 3:.. ) ? doable with Pokey ? On YouTube DerpDerp3001 says: Quote Instruments and sounds he tries to emulate: Rain, Heavy Wind, Dripping, Detuned Triangle, Tuned Drum (I don't know which), Harpsichord, Woman Screaming, Bass Drum, Kalimba, Wolf Howling, Upright Bass, Low Triangle, Heavy Breathing, Heart Beat, Electric Bass, Unknown Plucked String #1, Penny Whistle, High Triangle, Metal Sheet, Unknown Plucked String #2, Flute, Harmonica, Bells, Vibraphone, Organ, Strings, Violin, Muffled Bass Drum, and Many Synths. And a theremin Didn't know this song. It entered my top-10 SID tuned immediately. The amount of different timbres is staggering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 19 minutes ago, ivop said: Emkay and I have talked about that, but there are just not enough goattracker files available to justify the effort. Or can you point us to an archive of goattracker files? Not really... I thought goattracker was a really popular tracker with a huge library... but I guess .SID is the standard and it's pretty much .SAP ? 21 minutes ago, ivop said: Hadn't seen it yet. Looks nice! But the three colors on the keyboards are just the three SID channels. There's no detection of instruments or anything more sophisticated. But it's a nice visual effect! You mean it's the graphical equivalent of siddump ? ?? 14 minutes ago, ivop said: On YouTube DerpDerp3001 says: Quote Instruments and sounds he tries to emulate: Rain, Heavy Wind, Dripping, Detuned Triangle, Tuned Drum (I don't know which), Harpsichord, Woman Screaming, Bass Drum, Kalimba, Wolf Howling, Upright Bass, Low Triangle, Heavy Breathing, Heart Beat, Electric Bass, Unknown Plucked String #1, Penny Whistle, High Triangle, Metal Sheet, Unknown Plucked String #2, Flute, Harmonica, Bells, Vibraphone, Organ, Strings, Violin, Muffled Bass Drum, and Many Synths. And a theremin Oh... easier than I thought ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, TIX said: really excellent work guys ? I always wondered how c64's Ghouls 'n' Ghosts music would translate to the 8bit.. Since we are looking for that kind of organ/ambient music for our "secret" upcoming game, it would be interesting to hear your renditions ! So many forgotten SID sounds in that soundtrack! Sometimes it suddenly "opens up" and ascends the muffled/synth/filter sound that a lot of SID songs are known for. There's so much more possible with the SID chip. Three 16-bit channels.... Edit: Just listened to all the tracks/stages and it is like listening to a new 70's progrock album. Very nice! Edited December 8, 2020 by ivop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 7 hours ago, rensoup said: What about that really nice atmospheric part in the original (from 0:00 to 3:.. ) ? doable with Pokey ? If you have listened to my Monkey Island edit, your answer might be given. The additional generators must be in tune, if you don't want to set "1000" instruments for a pattern, to have the sounding right. Particular generator 2 is a real melodic generator, but the notes get off, because the base is 1.79MHz. Similar with gen 4 (for a high note playable range) or even generato C is usable for a range of high notes. If the tracker allows to play them in any enveleope, it will give the played instruments the needed "face" without getting detuned. A lot tunes would benefit to have a "chord / apeggio" channel, allowing the access to all generators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 14 hours ago, rensoup said: You mean it's the graphical equivalent of siddump ? ?? Yes, exectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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