VinsCool Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 53 minutes ago, MARIO130XE said: I didn't want to offend anyone. I just sometimes get the impression that many people don't see or understand the problem with conversions. An example. If I play the note C on a piano and record it, I can use this instrument to play melodies through notation. Chords can also be played this way. C major e.g. with the notes C, E, and G. If I now add a second instrument, which may not have been recorded on C but on D, I cannot play reasonable chords together with the 1st instrument and normal notation. However, there would still be the option of always playing the second instrument one note lower. If I need a C because the first instrument plays a C or a note that goes with C, I have to play an B so that the second instrument then plays a C instead of B. This notation then only fits this single set of instruments. If I now replace all the instruments with those that were all recorded on C, the notes no longer match. And that is exactly what happens again and again when converting MOD files. You can take a MOD as a test and replace all melody instruments with piano before converting. Then you can already hear whether it can be converted or whether the notation has to be adapted or redone. Peace and happy sounding Oh I totally agree with you, I tried to convert from a mod once, and that was a pain in the ass, that's why I always make my transcriptions from scratch, either by ear or with visual references when it's actually possible. At the end, the results are a lot better when it's done from the ground up instead of importing a .mod/.midi/.whatever into another program. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 36 minutes ago, emkay said: The point is that, the tuning is ok-ish till 0:42. I'm aware, that's about as good as the chip could be in that high pitched range, it's not perfectly in-tune there and I cannot change anything about it 37 minutes ago, emkay said: Also, what you have to think of: How would the tune work, if there was no original? It would still work? Not sure what you mean there... 38 minutes ago, emkay said: In my edit the main instrument fits together from the start to the end of the tune. Honestly the only thing I could tell is that several notes are out of tune for some reason, which is a little odd because it doesn't happen in the conversion I did earlier, and used the exact same tables ? 39 minutes ago, emkay said: Ofcourse, your adjustment solved a lot problems, but the 8 bits are still there My point exactly in the first quote reply What I did do for the tuning isn't perfect at all, it tries to be as good as possible, however. 5 minutes ago, emkay said: You have to take care that what he's writing he did take from others. What 5 minutes ago, emkay said: It's also obvious that he don't like the corrected notetable. Quote needed, because I did not see that anywhere. There is also the fact that what is in-tune or not is subjective, and I personally try to make things sound good. Tuning could also be related to interval between notes, so as long as the intervals are as close as possible to be equal, or even Just if we're going full on Alternative Tunings, things will ultimately sound good. Then some detuning can improve songs a lot too, so again, it's about how it's used, it could be a very nice addition to a wider sound, or sound wrong and make the listener cringe. I also agree about the .mod import being painfully shitty, I hated using the feature, and that's why my music takes like 10x to make, I prefer making it once and properly, haha. I think I did rant about that once before, I was furious about wasting my time importing a mod when I ended up transcribing something entirely by ear was much faster and better at the end But I digress, I prefer not getting into an argument, so I just do my thing, and that's all from me really ? Let's keep on with experimenting, it's a lot of fun, out of tune or not! haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, VinsCool said: Honestly the only thing I could tell is that several notes are out of tune for some reason, which is a little odd because it doesn't happen in the conversion I did earlier, and used the exact same tables ? Check the original. The version you posted has this pressing everything else down from the main voice. Also the slight off, is a part of the original. It plays the main voice to have a cool "come on" touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 minute ago, emkay said: Check the original. I did, a banger 2 minutes ago, emkay said: The version you posted has this pressing everything else down from the main voice. Isn't that the point? Notes are in the same key after all. 2 minutes ago, emkay said: Also the slight off, is a part of the original. It plays the main voice to have a cool "come on" touch. It does have that chorusing effect, but nowhere near a full semitone off in a several notes, however ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Alright, I guess I'll just go back to pretend I can code in 6502 ASM now, hahaha btw emkay if you don't have it already, this is my last set of tables, so we're even with that stuff CustomNoteTables.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 It's ok to provide CONSTRUCTIVE criticism but leave out the name calling and insults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 7 hours ago, VinsCool said: Isn't that the point? Notes are in the same key after all. The point is to have the melodic part working correctly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, emkay said: The point is to have the melodic part working correctly. Yeah, good we agree then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 22 minutes ago, VinsCool said: Yeah, good we agree then ? Talking about detuning with those old chips is still useless. You know that even chip tunes mostly were off. Particular using SID. If you want to have the correct musical flow you have to detune in dedicated places, to get the tune correct. We have already pointed out from where things come ... You seem to like the acoustic basses more, I like to have the high tones more clean at their correct "position". You claim some halftones often wrong in my tunes. I claim the timing and volume often wrong in your tunes. For me it is more acceptable to have some slightly detuning here and there, than to have the whole thing "aside the Rainbow". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 I don't disagree with you! It's a good balance of everything that is the most important. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 OK. I have to admit that I did the quick conversion, for some compensation purpose. Yesterday I was listening to this: 2 POKEYs and a lot CPU wasted for a disgusting result. Everything that keeps the level of the original is perverted in this. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderDude Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) On 8/17/2021 at 1:37 PM, emkay said: OK. I have to admit that I did the quick conversion, for some compensation purpose. Yesterday I was listening to this: 2 POKEYs and a lot CPU wasted for a disgusting result. Everything that keeps the level of the original is perverted in this. I dunno, I kinda like the sound of it. This has a bit of reverb in the beginning for the arpeggio, it sounds like distortions C and E are being used separately between the first and second Pokey to make this bass which has a waveform which is a bit closer to the original fm instrument, and the lead has a duplicate which is an octave higher, which can add more timbre. I don't think any of the conversions of the same song you all have made are "bad" or "perverted", they do their job of capturing various aspects of the original very well, but the aspects that were reproduced from each version are different. Besides, I'm fairly certain that LZSS playback can compensate for the high CPU usage RMT usually hogs up. But hey, that's my two cents. Edited August 20, 2021 by EnderDude 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 4 hours ago, EnderDude said: I dunno, I kinda like the sound of it. This has a bit of reverb in the beginning for the arpeggio, it sounds like distortions C and E are being used separately between the first and second Pokey to make this bass which has a waveform which is a bit closer to the original fm instrument, and the lead has a duplicate which is an octave higher, which can add more timbre. I don't think any of the conversions of the same song you all have made are "bad" or "perverted", they do their job of capturing various aspects of the original very well, but the aspects that were reproduced from each version are different. Besides, I'm fairly certain that LZSS playback can compensate for the high CPU usage RMT usually hogs up. But hey, that's my two cents. That's the point, I'm not getting till today. It doesn't have it all that makes the original, but you claim it to be good, for some reason. Just the first 10 seconds sound promising. Two Pokeys do of course compensate sounding errors of a single Pokey, so it is cheating, as the audio is merged. This means: It is no Pokey sound. Due it all, there are wrong places on and on in the musical flow, weird distortions in the man voice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 25, 2021 Author Share Posted August 25, 2021 Some "ideas" later 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 7, 2021 Author Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) Back to more experimental stuff. Getting A Feeling For It "gaffi" Now that a lot problems found their corrections, there are still some minor things... OK. There is still the main challenge to bring amiga mod files to the Atari , using some "mocking" of the samples. This is where this comes into the show A known amiga mod tune, and I wonder if it is recognizable. At least it shows several solutions of a 4 channel usage plus PWM and special generator settings. It's experimental, so take care Edited September 7, 2021 by emkay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 4 hours ago, emkay said: Now that a lot problems found their corrections, there are still some minor things... OK. There is still the main challenge to bring amiga mod files to the Atari , using some "mocking" of the samples. This is where this comes into the show A known amiga mod tune, and I wonder if it is recognizable. At least it shows several solutions of a 4 channel usage plus PWM and special generator settings. It's still Kefrens but even though It started nice enough, after the intro... ouch ? Maybe these kind of mods are a little too much for Pokey... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 8, 2021 Author Share Posted September 8, 2021 3 hours ago, rensoup said: It's still Kefrens but even though It started nice enough, after the intro... ouch ? Maybe these kind of mods are a little too much for Pokey... The point is that you could place any sample in that time where pokey waits for the next vbi cycle. So faster update would really help here. Particular the beat is not possible to get to the right speed, as it is stored at a different speed and gets splitted into several instruments. The whole thing rises and falls with the beat line. The synth-abilities were impressive already, just at 50Hz VBI speed. The corrected notation range also allows to get deeper into the "sample mocking", as the results fit to a broader range on the octaves. So let's wait and see, if there will be additional ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 8, 2021 Author Share Posted September 8, 2021 4 hours ago, rensoup said: Maybe these kind of mods are a little too much for Pokey... As long as the samples were just a replacement for the direct aimed note, things were rather simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 I demand some thick and deep 15khz bass for this version of checknobankh.mod ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 5 hours ago, rensoup said: Maybe these kind of mods are a little too much for Pokey... I disagree this is more than possible if the musician knows what they are doing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 8, 2021 Author Share Posted September 8, 2021 25 minutes ago, VinsCool said: I demand some thick and deep 15khz bass for this version of checknobankh.mod ? 100Hz playback could be sufficient for the correct beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderDude Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 This is just a quick little project I finished in two days Anyone can feel free to test it with different tuning tables. Upon hearing the original version, it seems to be intentionally detuned by about +0.5 semitone. agentx ii.rmt agentxii.sap 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 10, 2021 Author Share Posted September 10, 2021 8 hours ago, EnderDude said: This is just a quick little project I finished in two days Anyone can feel free to test it with different tuning tables. Upon hearing the original version, it seems to be intentionally detuned by about +0.5 semitone. agentx ii.rmt 3.14 kB · 4 downloads agentxii.sap 3.86 kB · 1 download Seems to be aimed to sound funny. But the SID synth is more tightended. Thanks for offering the RMT. I will have a look at this later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor / HARD Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 17 hours ago, EnderDude said: This is just a quick little project I finished in two days Anyone can feel free to test it with different tuning tables. Upon hearing the original version, it seems to be intentionally detuned by about +0.5 semitone. agentx ii.rmt 3.14 kB · 6 downloads agentxii.sap 3.86 kB · 1 download Wow! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 10, 2021 Author Share Posted September 10, 2021 Two notes changed .... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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