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emkay

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Still not perfect, but it shows that the stability in volume and timing, plus the correct notation, just makes more sense ...

 

 

 

 

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Sounds great.  I like the "distorted guitar" section that comes in around 1:18.

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It would sound even better with an accurate 16 bit support.

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1 hour ago, emkay said:

It would sound even better with an accurate 16 bit support.

You mean RMT command support in 16bit ?

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6 hours ago, rensoup said:

You mean RMT command support in 16bit ?

Yes.

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21 hours ago, emkay said:

Yes.

You could describe the problem more accurately perhaps?

 

I'm guessing 16bit here has nothing to do with AUDCTL linked channels ?

 

Are You talking about command parameters having a finer accuracy than 1 step per update ? 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/4/2021 at 4:51 AM, rensoup said:

I'm guessing 16bit here has nothing to do with AUDCTL linked channels ?

I think he means commands for glissandos, vibrato, and arpeggios at 16-bit resolution with AUDCTL linked channels. This is something RMT does not support.

 

Edited by ivop
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10 minutes ago, ivop said:

I think he means commands for glissandos, vibrato, and arpeggios at 16-bit resolution with AUDCTL linked channels. This is something RMT does not support.

 

It's also about the real note frequencies. 

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3 minutes ago, emkay said:

It's also about the real note frequencies. 

Sure, but I thought that was a given :)

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I'd say, on a couple parts, this is honestly better than the original Atari 8-bit version of the same tune.
There's some improvements that could be used on the bass, but other than that, the synth filter is really good in your version.
I think the slower tempo also gives a nice touch compared to the fast paced arpfest the original had too.
 

So, well done, I think your version has potential to be the better one! :D 

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24 minutes ago, VinsCool said:

I'd say, on a couple parts, this is honestly better than the original Atari 8-bit version of the same tune.

 

 

You know, it's still not the limit .

 

24 minutes ago, VinsCool said:

 

 


There's some improvements that could be used on the bass, but other than that, the synth filter is really good in your version.

 

 

The basses are better than I expected. 

Also, the "missing" software.... could help improving things.

 

24 minutes ago, VinsCool said:

 

 

 


I think the slower tempo also gives a nice touch compared to the fast paced arpfest the original had too.
 

So, well done, I think your version has potential to be the better one! :D 

Thanks.

But this speed is normal on PAL in the game. 

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Not sure , if people get it, but one thing I prefer on all my tunes above all other "POKEY tunes". 

I never would try to make a tune stiff sounding from the start to the end. 

I like it, when the style is changing a little during the replay of a tune. 

It makes a tune sounding a little more "natural".

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6 hours ago, ivop said:

I think he means commands for glissandos, vibrato, and arpeggios at 16-bit resolution with AUDCTL linked channels. This is something RMT does not support.

 

Glad you're always able to clarify 🙂

 

Yes but for that you would need 16bit input on those parameters as well right ? Right now the RMT command argument allows for 8bit only, so with 8bit as input you can't get 16 bit precision 🤔

 

if the inputs are changed to 8bits+8bit fixed point, then should be pretty easy in the code to support that kind of precision (basically change all the "byte" to  "int16" and >>8 when looking up the note in the note tables)

That way you'd get 16bit precision even in 8bit mode too.

 

Another thing: In 16bit mode, the final 16bit frequency is looked up in the 16 bit table from the 8 bit note but if you have 8bit fixed point precision, would it make sense to do a bilinear interpolation between the 2 closest 16 bit frequencies ? or would that sound totally wrong ?

 

One thing I noted is that 16bit mode is perhaps not as used as the filter for instance ? So is it really worth it ?

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Technically 16-bit is just 2 8-bit channels combined together where one outputs the sound and the other adjusts the combined frequency, so there really is nothing that would stop from having effects such as vibrato and portamento other than working with 16-bit numbers, so if there is a way to make sure the effects are using 16-bit as a whole but store each 8-bit halves in their respective channels, then pretty much anything could work just as well, at least, the way I imagine it.

 

That is exactly what I was talking some time ago about splitting 16-bit output as 2 8-bit tables, they could work semi independently to do pretty much anything you want, including the "reverse 16-bit" sounds where it is the other channel that outputs the resulting sound.

 

The only reason why "16-bit" couldn't use the effects was a hardcoded RMT limitation, which makes sense since it uses the Distortion C bass tones as 16-bit values, and there is very specific frequencies that can be used, otherwise it would output noise or silence, so vibrato or portamento would not work very well there.

 

If, instead of the way it is handled (via Distortion 6) it uses the AUDCTL settings needed to treat 16-bit as 2 8-bit halves, for example, Distortion A, vibrato and portamento would work really well as long as each channels are tightly joined as a full 16-bit number.

 

I am currently unable to give some examples because my computer fucked itself the other day but it's actually possible to do such a thing manually, which is really sloppy through RMT but does work.

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21 hours ago, VinsCool said:

I am currently unable to give some examples because my computer fucked itself the other day but it's actually possible to do such a thing manually, which is really sloppy through RMT but does work.

I'm going to check the vibrato and portamento code but a simple example of the limits of either of these commands would be nice whenever you get the chance.

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Earworm alert!

I like this one lol

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8 minutes ago, VinsCool said:

Earworm alert!

I like this one lol

 

You see. The better the tools, the better the results.

Now "logics" work like "music creation as is". 

And this way, the nifty additions get added inbetween, just because it works correctly.

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1 hour ago, emkay said:

 

 

 

Nice job.

 

On 5/11/2021 at 1:12 PM, emkay said:

 

 

 

Uh, not so nice.

 

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10 hours ago, MrFish said:

 

Nice job.

 

 

Uh, not so nice.

 

Actually, for me the "where is my pokey tracker" tune sounds better. Just a tad, because it contains some "futuristic" melodic flow. 

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4 minutes ago, emkay said:

Actually, for me the "where is my pokey tracker" tune sounds better. Just a tad, because it contains some "futuristic" melodic flow. 

 

In some parts, yeah. But the bass sounds weak, unstable, and often out of tune.

 

In the other tune, the bass sounds really nice (full, stable, and in tune).

 

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Just now, MrFish said:

 

In some parts, yeah. But the bass sounds weak, unstable, and often out of tune.

 

In the other tune, the bass sounds really nice (full, stable, and in tune).

 

Well, keep in mind that the bass is very unstable caused by the polycounter generating.

The additional problem is the different sound in RMT and the LZSS player. To make it more clear: the lzss player is correct.

Imagine to control the "possible balance of the resulting sound", when you don't hear it while editing a tune. 

The interesting part to me is the low response of the clear notation that is used. 

With the help of VinsCool, it is now possible to play "SID like correct" tunes. 

It's not the common "let's use a tone and pull it somehow over the correct pitch" .

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