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emkay

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Sounds great, the sound mixing is really good in this version.

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1 minute ago, VinsCool said:

Sounds great, the sound mixing is really good in this version.

Some small volume changes put in. 

But there is more. 

Some controlled slide on sever notes using PWM, and 

gen. 2 in several places, to hold the tuning, plus giving the tune more balance to the whole sound mixing :)

Remember: it's still single vbi. 

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Yup, I could tell this was the effects going on there, things sound nicely balanced for sure.

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2 hours ago, emkay said:

Better or worse?

 

 

That surely sounds better! Nice work! Is there any general rule-of thumb when it comes to volume balancing? The non-linear mixing makes it sound different for sure when I run any projects under Altirra compared to playing it in RMT.

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21 minutes ago, EnderDude said:

That surely sounds better! Nice work! Is there any general rule-of thumb when it comes to volume balancing? The non-linear mixing makes it sound different for sure when I run any projects under Altirra compared to playing it in RMT.

I personally recommend exporting often the work in progress to listen on Altirra (or hardware even) to truly have a good idea of what it sounds like, then adjust with your feelings, usually a good balance means there is no clipping audio, or drowned frequencies when other things play at the same time.
The volume balance is honestly a bitch compared to other platforms like the NES.

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4 hours ago, EnderDude said:

That surely sounds better!

 

In some cases even better than the SID.

Quote

 

Nice work! Is there any general rule-of thumb when it comes to volume balancing? The non-linear mixing makes it sound different for sure when I run any projects under Altirra compared to playing it in RMT.

As VinsCool wrote. 

Check it from time to time in Altirra. 

It helps a lot to get the whole thing right at global volume, it also gives  better impression of stability, because the RMT still starts wobbling inside the editor, making the sounds unstable. 

 

Not sure how other people create tunes for the Atari, but I always start with the most problematic parts, to get them right. Then do some reverse adjustments, just like a little more volume on lower notes.

RMT has some good features, as you can do a loop on a marked range. 

What I miss there is to have this marked range playing on more than one pattern, as sometimes the problematic point is at the change from one pattern to the next. 

I'm using a goto then, to jump 2 patterns back.

 

 

And, btw. Have a look at the gen2 now. It works great in VinsCool's patched RMT.

Replace some start of a gen a based instrument, offers more volume options and tunes things better. It also is usable as some pwm feature on a single channel.

I also replaced the start of the basses with it, to have the basses tuned more fluently. 

But be sure to put the gen2 to a level of volume where it almost fades away, to just get the "touch" of it into the tune.

Edited by emkay
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2 hours ago, EnderDude said:

I should use 1.79 mhz instruments more often ;)

 

Very good, but the continuous use of gen. 2 gives an overlay to the tune that stresses the ears.  

And the synth sounds nicer without clicks :)

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36 minutes ago, emkay said:

 

Very good, but the continuous use of gen. 2 gives an overlay to the tune that stresses the ears.  

And the synth sounds nicer without clicks :)

True. Turned it back to dist A for the most part and is used much more sparingly. Also, is there any particular order for FSHIFT that keeps it stuck at one width without it clicking or going silent occasionally?

Edited by EnderDude

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45 minutes ago, EnderDude said:

True. Turned it back to dist A for the most part and is used much more sparingly. Also, is there any particular order for FSHIFT that keeps it stuck at one width without it clicking or going silent occasionally?

The point is that you have to balance the wave offset from time to time. 

Start with the closest wave offset and change the pitch for a short time on one channel, to have the wave moving backward, and keep the pulse width inside the range of two cancelling points.   

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Some playing around.

The sounds are divided into clean sound, sounds that do interactions between the channles, and there is the wobbling of the emulation. 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, emkay said:

and there is the wobbling of the emulation. 

Of which we now sadly know that's not fixable without the RMT source code :(

But nice video! 👍

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9 minutes ago, ivop said:

Nice edit! But why not share the .rmt file back to EnderDude? Learning by example, etc.... And just plain courtsey :)

Already extracted the .rmt, but thanks for asking for me!

What I noticed is that since I'm not using the patch version that he used, dist 2 does not automatically set the audctl to xxxxx1xx and/or xxxxxx1x for 1.79 mhz.

Edited by EnderDude

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3 minutes ago, EnderDude said:

Already extracted the .rmt, but thanks for asking for me!

What's odd is that since I'm not using the patch version that he used, dist 2 does not automatically set the audctl to xxxxx1xx and/or xxxxxx1x for 1.79 mhz.

That's actually the feature of that patch. 

Edited by emkay

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Also, while I was experimenting by switching between dist 2 and a, I noticed there's a little "hiccup" when it switches back and forth. Is this an emulation issue only in rmt?

 

Edited by EnderDude

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12 minutes ago, EnderDude said:

Also, while I was experimenting by switching between dist 2 and a, I noticed there's a little "hiccup" when it switches back and forth. Is this an emulation issue only in rmt?

 

Nothing irregular from the video. 

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1 hour ago, ivop said:

Nice edit! But why not share the .rmt file back to EnderDude? Learning by example, etc.... And just plain courtsey :)

It's actually really easy to get the .rmt back from a .xex or even a .sap using an hex editor 👀

 

1 hour ago, EnderDude said:

What I noticed is that since I'm not using the patch version that he used, dist 2 does not automatically set the audctl to xxxxx1xx and/or xxxxxx1x for 1.79 mhz.

Yeah there is another patch with a Distortion 2 exclusive feature I posted in my RMT hacking thread, it's basically mostly the same as the Patch 16 in progress too.

That patch made it so Distortion 2 would automatically switch to 1.79mhz clock in channel 1 and 3 without any extra work from the musician, making it incredibly useful musically combined to Distortion A.

Now that we have the .obx loader it will be very easy to re-add it to the Patch at a later time when I feel like doing it (sometime later since I'm kind of busy on some different things at the moment ;) ).

1 hour ago, EnderDude said:

Also, while I was experimenting by switching between dist 2 and a, I noticed there's a little "hiccup" when it switches back and forth. Is this an emulation issue only in rmt?

 

It's a known issue in which both RMT's timing and my own code cause an odd interaction.

I've rambled about it a while ago, but essentially there are situations that make a AUDCTL switch detected only 1 frame after the changes actually happened, causing occasional frames to play the incorrect frequency/distortion/mode when it is immediately changed from a setting to another.

In most situations, it should be almost impossible to notice it, but the RMT timing makes it pop out a little more often than wanted, however, it should be mostly fine in the mix compared to playing a channel alone to isolate the sounds.

 

That said, it is a known issue that is triggered by my code due to being inserted between 2 blocks the major instrument initialisation code, and I will eventually come with a workaround, or maybe a proper fix for it, but that might require some extensive RMT code change from me.

But we'll see how that goes, because I already know of the timing issue, and that is one of the things I have at the top of my list of improvements to make sometime soon, as I was busy rewriting most of my RMT Visualizer, I've made many disappointing observations about a lot of the rmtplayr calls, but that is a ramble I'll save for a more appropriate time, hehehe.

 

Tl;dr It's a known issue, but what happens there is perfectly normal currently, due to the order/priority of things happening in the current rmtplayr Patch16 code. ;) 

 

 

 

 

Edited by VinsCool
I can't English derechef
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lol

 

Seems there is a discussion going on that wouldn't be there at all, just caused by the fact that POKEY music never could have reached the current level before. 

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26 minutes ago, VinsCool said:

It's actually really easy to get the .rmt back from a .xex or even a .sap using an hex editor 👀

 

Yeah there is another patch with a Distortion 2 exclusive feature I posted in my RMT hacking thread, it's basically mostly the same as the Patch 16 in progress too.

That patch made it so Distortion 2 would automatically switch to 1.79mhz clock in channel 1 and 3 without any extra work from the musician, making it incredibly useful musically combined to Distortion A.

 

It's even more funny that people still don't know what it means at all. 

I'm looking forward to have a working tune in any demoscene related release ;)

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Now I've finished the song, and have now tried that one trick of keeping the phase still, with an occasional shifting. Of course, because of the emulation wobbling emkay mentioned, in order to keep some of the instruments from sounding too thin, I have spliced two recordings to fill in a part which went silent (at about 1:58). I did try moving the phase shift instrument around, but it would make a different part silent in the tracker. Eventually, I just settled on splicing out the silent part just to give you all a listen to the proof-of-concept. Hope you enjoy! :)

 

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That sounds fucking GREAT!

Feels good to hear my patch in action right there, tuning is excellent in this tune with all these settings combined together. :D

 

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38 minutes ago, EnderDude said:

Now I've finished the song, and have now tried that one trick of keeping the phase still, with an occasional shifting. Of course, because of the emulation wobbling emkay mentioned, in order to keep some of the instruments from sounding too thin, I have spliced two recordings to fill in a part which went silent (at about 1:58). I did try moving the phase shift instrument around, but it would make a different part silent in the tracker. Eventually, I just settled on splicing out the silent part just to give you all a listen to the proof-of-concept. Hope you enjoy! :)

 

the proof of concept is much better, you should consider it worthy of finishing.

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