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emkay

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40 minutes ago, EnderDude said:

Aw man, I sometimes really wish we had arp commands like what a mod tracker would have...

If you check some of Raster's tunes, you might recognize quickly that he had a fully different aim on his Tracker.

It's a pity that all commands (except speed and volume) were clamped to the used instrument. 

VinsCool's changes made the use of "1000"s of instruments obsolete, to tune things right. 

To add an "Arpeggio Command to the Pattern/Track" might not be that simple, I guess.

 

Btw: After1:07 sounds really great. Possibly a tad to low on volume, compared to the start.

Which Version of RMT Hack do you use for it?

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6 hours ago, emkay said:

If you check some of Raster's tunes, you might recognize quickly that he had a fully different aim on his Tracker.

It's a pity that all commands (except speed and volume) were clamped to the used instrument. 

VinsCool's changes made the use of "1000"s of instruments obsolete, to tune things right. 

To add an "Arpeggio Command to the Pattern/Track" might not be that simple, I guess.

 

Btw: After1:07 sounds really great. Possibly a tad to low on volume, compared to the start.

Which Version of RMT Hack do you use for it?

Thanks! I used the patch which completely changes command 7. I just named it "Patch 16 Beta 7". I should probably try to put command 7 to use then XD

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5 hours ago, EnderDude said:

Thanks! I used the patch which completely changes command 7. I just named it "Patch 16 Beta 7". I should probably try to put command 7 to use then XD

Sadly this versions seems not to have the gen 2 patch included.

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2 minutes ago, emkay said:

Sadly this versions seems not to have the gen 2 patch included.

It is quite unfortunate, yeah...

I can easily mod it to take advantage of the gen 2 patch though, given that I'm not using any instruments which are also using 1.79mhz dist e.

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11 hours ago, emkay said:

Sadly this versions seems not to have the gen 2 patch included.

gen 2 patch can be recreated by using Command 7 to manually set the AUDCTL in any instrument and any frame.

I've used the command precisely for that purpose in my last example on Youtube.

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1 hour ago, EnderDude said:

Ngl, the bug with the order of operations with Vinscool's routines and the main rmt routine does make this good shift effect in this context:

Heh nice.

For once this is actually helping lol

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1 hour ago, VinsCool said:

gen 2 patch can be recreated by using Command 7 to manually set the AUDCTL in any instrument and any frame.

I've used the command precisely for that purpose in my last example on Youtube.

OK.

Could you explain the feature more exactly ?

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2 minutes ago, emkay said:

OK.

Could you explain the feature more exactly ?

Using the command 7 in an instrument frame sets the AUDCTL with the XY parameter directly to the instrument, which is crucial for my hijacked tuning tables handler to load the correct pointers.

 

Setting the distortion 2 and Command 7 to one of the AUDCTL values for clock ($20 for channel 3 or $40 for channel 1) will recreate the gen 2 effect.

When you want to revert to the normal use set Command 7 to 0 or 1 for 15khz, and any other value if other stuff like filter is also combined.

 

In effect, this allows full control of the AUDCTL as an envelope in an instrument :)

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1 hour ago, VinsCool said:

 

 

In effect, this allows full control of the AUDCTL as an envelope in an instrument :)

 

OK. I've checked it. And I'm disappointed there. The AUDCTL seems to work correct, but the note table control seems to be a VBI late. 

This is not happening in the gen 2 patch version. 

Also, the use of one instrument on two channels is more resource saving. 

Using the AUDCTL that way, makes it needed to have a single instrument splitted into 4 instruments for all channels.  

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7 hours ago, emkay said:

OK. I've checked it. And I'm disappointed there. The AUDCTL seems to work correct, but the note table control seems to be a VBI late. 

I'm aware, this is a known issue directly caused as a side effect of the way my patch handled the tables.

Things may be 1 frame late in many situations.

Only the full AUDCTL control of a particular instrument will be immediate, since I had worked around the problem specifically for that command, for now.

 

I can tell you I am the first to be disappointed by this issue, but at least, it can be worked around in the mix without too much troubles that way.

7 hours ago, emkay said:

This is not happening in the gen 2 patch version. 

Also, the use of one instrument on two channels is more resource saving. 

The same issue existed in gen 2 patch, the only difference was that it was coded specifically to always output the right table on the right channels without any delay, but only with the Distortion 2, everything else still have that 1 frame late issue.

7 hours ago, emkay said:

Using the AUDCTL that way, makes it needed to have a single instrument splitted into 4 instruments for all channels.  

Sure, it is more work on the making, but having a much finer control of everything makes it totally worth it, in my opinion.

Being able to work around the delays altogether would improve a bunch of unrelated issues, but at least, being able to use Command 7 for immediate changes is a step in the right direction.

 

 

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How about this version?

Sometimes single sometimes chorus on the lead.

 

 

 

It's always 4 channels on, but 3 channels sound. 

Means, the filter voice is not splitted in two instruments here.

 

 

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1 hour ago, emkay said:

How about this version?

I still prefer VinsCool's... not sure why you added those heavy percussions, they don't really fit

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20 minutes ago, rensoup said:

I still prefer VinsCool's... not sure why you added those heavy percussions, they don't really fit

 And I'm not sure why you were picky on the percussions. 

 

I'm using this volume because it is the same volume range. 

Now I'm wondering which sound equipment you use. 

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1 hour ago, emkay said:
1 hour ago, rensoup said:

I still prefer VinsCool's... not sure why you added those heavy percussions, they don't really fit

 And I'm not sure why you were picky on the percussions. 

 

I'm using this volume because it is the same volume range. 

Now I'm wondering which sound equipment you use. 

I also prefer VinsCool's version.  Here's the sound equipment I use.  Feel free to tell me how shitty it is.

Pioneer PL-520 turntable
Denon AVR-X4700H running as a 9.2 per-amp and signal processor
Behringer ULTRA-CURVE PRO DSP8024 - Rears
Behringer DEQ-2496 - Fronts
Crown DC-300A II Rears (300 * 2 @ 4 ohm stereo)
Crown D-75 (front channel, 75W * 1 8 ohm mono)
Crown DC-300A II Subs (450 * 2 @ 2 ohm stereo)
Crown ComTech 800 - Fronts (490 * 2 @ 4 ohm stereo)

Front Speakers - MTX2230B (2 12" woofers, ferro-fluid cooled midrange, horn tweets)

Subs - Custom built MTX 12" boxes (2.25 cubic foot ported)

Rear Speakers - AAL Studio 400 (2 10" woofers)

 

Front Soundstage

10.thumb.jpg.c0e2b4b00e9947d4ce34db60735dedff.jpg

 

Rear Soundstage

04.thumb.jpg.6fdbaf67528e4964fb1a86ada5cab74e.jpg

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My version isn't that good honestly.

It was one of the earliest times I did the RMT2LZSS conversion and I had really bad audio equipments at that time too, it was a little while before my headphones jack broke for good.

Also my version was quite offtune, because it was from before I started to research how to improve the tuning tables and unify most of the notes in a very similar "not so offtune" scale.

 

Emkay's edit above sounds very much like the same version made my Kjmann, I know because the percussions are the same ones Kjmann liked to use.

Seems like the 4 channels version was edited into a 3 channels, and the filter was manipulated in a different way.

The filter sounds good there in my opinion.

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7 hours ago, VinsCool said:

Seems like the 4 channels version was edited into a 3 channels, and the filter was manipulated in a different way.

The filter sounds good there in my opinion.

 

I should find a better solution for the percussions, AND the basses. 

As long as people use speakers that have a longer curved surface than the wavelength they produce, things won't get nice anyways ;)

Ususally those speakers weren't really linear. 

They were built for just being loud. 

POKEY puts harmonics to the basses that were louder on those speakers also.

 

15kHz basses would be THE solution... but you know the issues :)

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Just now, emkay said:

15kHz basses would be THE solution... but you know the issues :)

Tuning? I wonder if this could ever be corrected and automatically adjusted between AUDCTL toggles 👀

Hmmm, I wonder who could do that...? ;) 

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15 minutes ago, VinsCool said:

Tuning? I wonder if this could ever be corrected and automatically adjusted between AUDCTL toggles 👀

Hmmm, I wonder who could do that...? ;) 

There is no solution, except you use 1.79MHz voices without filter FX, or the filter timing gets disrupted.

A digi-channel still is the solution ;)

It must be fully based on software, not using any register of Pokey.   

...

well, except one channel for the volume programming, of course. 

Edited by emkay

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17 minutes ago, emkay said:

There is no solution

I've spent a lot of time to learn how to do certain things just to prove a point, multiple times, and I know this is not true :D 

 

A digi channel would be really nice to be able to make for sure.

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4 hours ago, VinsCool said:

I've spent a lot of time to learn how to do certain things just to prove a point, multiple times, and I know this is not true :D 

 

Of course it is true. 

As soon as you switch to 16 bit or change the base clocking, the filter will toggle. 

You can do "temporary switching" but this always ends up in such "restless" sounds. 

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How about this bass and drums setting?

 

 

Here you might recognize the "wobbling that is still left" . Instrument 34 is not stable in the volume. 

But that is really all. It is not disturbing the wave creation. 

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2 hours ago, emkay said:

Of course it is true. 

As soon as you switch to 16 bit or change the base clocking, the filter will toggle. 

You can do "temporary switching" but this always ends up in such "restless" sounds. 

This is why developing techniques around that is crucial, the idea of "absolute" manipulation is directly related to that idea.

I can tell you the use if filter onto the channels between clock changes and even on top of 16-bit is insanely satisfying to pull, and having a direct control on the AUDCTL register gives this much finer manipulation.

What was once a chore becomes incredibly easier to do with the patch I have been working on, at least, it is a lot more for me.

 

I personally never use the "FILTER" anymore, but juggle with multiple instruments, acting as a carrier and a modulator, this gives a lot less limitations on the sounds that could be created since I am then allowed to any frequencies and distortions on top of the filter bits in the AUDCTL register.

 

A lot more work at first glance, but certainly made easier now that I was able to patch some extra tuning between clocks, or the AUDCTL manipulation itself.

 

Having a new POKEY emulation plugin also makes things even better since they are really close to what Altirra would output when an exported binary is running in it.

 

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