7800 vs NES games

[Tangentg]

This is a little comparison list I made just now of some 7800 and NES games I play:

 

 

 

 

 

And here are some comments about my choices:

- BallBlazer: The 7800 version is clearly smoother, though I like the intro thing in the NES version and also how the theme plays indefinitely there

- DK for the NES had the conveyer belt stage missing and it always felt a bit incomplete to me as a result. The 7800 port didn't fix that either, but it certainly is as frustrating as the arcade version with the precise collision detection. Basically, neither really had anything especially impressive to offer over the other version.

- Galaga: I know many people like the 7800 version of Galaga, but the player's ship and the speed is just off: the aliens fly into formation really slowly but dive bomb at you too quickly. I tried to get myself into the 7800 version but just couldn't. The ship edit hack fixed 1 of these problems, but the NES version is still the most fun for me to play

- Joust: The 7800 versions wins by a long run: the bridges burning while the game is in action, the flames moving back to the centre of the lava pits gradually, the much more aesthetically pleasing visuals, the birds flying off the screen... Basically everything about the 7800 version is better, aside from the lack of the attract screen instructions, which the NES had.

- Dig Dug: My main problem is that it looks like a recoloured version of the 2600 port. The music is exactly the same and the sprites also look somewhat similar. The NES version had music that much more resembled the arcade version.

- Robotron: I wouldn't have thrown in exclusives if it weren't for this game, which is a 7800 game that I play very frequently, and it just felt kinda wrong to do a deathbattle without this game. Also, I'm pretty sure the NES would have been capable of handling Robotron without too much problem.

- Rampage: 1 problem with the NES version: lack of 2P option. I wanted to try this out with a friend one time and then found out that it only had the 1P option.

- Mappy: Kinda thrown in here to make the Robotron comparison fairer, having an NES exclusive too. And I think the 7800 could have easily handled Mappy too.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Tangentg

[empsolo]

To be fair the NES has a superior version of Joust in the form of Balloon Fight.

 

 

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[MaximRecoil]

I wish that Dodge Ball (AKA: Super Dodge Ball) had been ported to the 7800. It's a fun (and comical) game on the NES, but it has severe flicker because of the number of sprites on the screen at once. I believe that the 7800 can handle all of those sprites (and more) without flicker; just look at Robotron 2084 on the 7800 for example.

 

The arcade version has good graphics and no flicker, but it isn't as fun as the NES version. In the arcade version you only have one big guy who can only do one type of "super throw", and it only works when doing a running jump. The NES version doesn't have any little guys; they are all big and each have their own version of the "super throw". Plus there are comical elements that the arcade version lacks, such as hitting someone so hard that it knocks them off the screen and back onto the screen from the other side ("around the world"). It is one of the few console ports that I like better than the arcade (which is saying a lot, because I was addicted to the arcade version as a kid, long before I ever heard of the NES version). So I'd like to see a 7800 port that plays like the NES version rather than the arcade version, and a Pokey sound chip is a must; all 7800 games should have had one.

Edited November 13, 2016 by MaximRecoil

[Reaperman]

- Rampage: 1 problem with the NES version: lack of 2P option. I wanted to try this out with a friend one time and then found out that it only had the 1P option.

NES rampage has two player--maybe I'm missing something here.

IIRC it was drop in/out simultaneous, and the game let players keep winning if either was still alive.

 

Its written right on the back of the box, in big letters above the title.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Reaperman

[lushgirl_80]

NES all the way!!!! The games for NES always seemed more interesting.

 

 

Never was a big fan of the 7800,but lately really love the version of Ms,Pac-Man on it. Looking at buying a new 7800 also to especially play my friend's 7800 homebrew game. I love some of the funny games like Super Skateboarding and Ninja Golf!

 

 

Obviously the 7800 has much better arcade ports also. The NES had really groundbreaking innovative original games like Zelda,but most of the arcade ports aren't good. I always also felt like the 7800 was a step down from the 5200 graphics wise,and the Sega Master System also beats it.

[malducci]

I don't care for any of these games listed. To me, they don't represent the NES, but the previous generation before it. When I think of the NES, I think of the advances in game design. I think of games like Zelda, SMB, Metriod, Megaman, etc - and moving forward from there. These old arcade games? Meh. Which is pretty much the 7800 to me. Meh. Too bad it didn't partake in the newer game designs of the time, instead of focusing on old stuff. Even a game like Commando, seemed old and primitive on the NES, let alone on the 7800 - and that's about as modern game design you get on the 7800.

 

About the Super DodgeBall comment, I'm sure the flicker would be non-existent on the 7800, but there would be less detail in the background image because of it - and low res to boot. Not sure a combination of both would make it a superior port.

Edited November 14, 2016 by malducci

[CatPix]

I was about to comment on the same theme, tho, more moderate. Most arcade ports on the NES are meh because they mostly were form the Famicom era - or the "before SMB" era, when the Famicom was just eating raw, non bankswitched carts with no improvement whatsoever, and of course, a real lack of knowledge from the programmers.

So when you judge arcade ports on the NES, you're mostly comparing 1983-1985 games VS 1986-1990 games which reached the pinnacle of the NES - memory mappers, additionnal sound hardware, improved sprite drawing, on board RAM, etc...

 

Id be curious to see hig resolution 7800 games with added RAM and of course POKEY built in for better sound.

Most 7800 games are sad low res things (160*192, the Atari 2600 resolution) with the atari 2600 sound capabilities - making POKEY an external device might have sounded good in context, but theyshould had included a better sound chip in the 7800 regardless. Maybe just doubling the Atari 2600 chip to give programmers more possibilities.

[Flojomojo]

When I found a discounted 7800 in 1989, it was the old-style of arcade games that drew me to it, even though I had a NES already. The quick fix has always been my jam.

 

NES seemed more capable of little-but-important things, like hardware scrolling and perfect rendering of the Konami font.

 

Wasn't the first Flashback a NES-on-a-chip? It contained passable versions of 7800 Asteroids, Food Fight, and something Planets (Mad Planets or Planet Smashers). Seems like it would be easier to put 7800 games on NES than vice versa, unsurprising since 7800 was so early.

[BillLoguidice]

Wasn't the first Flashback a NES-on-a-chip? It contained passable versions of 7800 Asteroids, Food Fight, and something Planets (Mad Planets or Planet Smashers). Seems like it would be easier to put 7800 games on NES than vice versa, unsurprising since 7800 was so early.

 

The Famicom was developed and released a little earlier than the 7800. Basically 1983 versus 1984. If all went according to original Atari plan, the full launches would have been roughly 1 year apart (one in Japan, one in the US, obviously).

 

We like to play a lot of "what if?" around here, but it certainly might have made for a more interesting marketplace battle if Atari actually was able to launch in 1984. It might have given the 7800 a little more time to mature before the eventual release of the NES sucked all the good third parties (and momentum) out of a highly depressed videogame market.

[high voltage]

"What if" companies developing games for NES were allowed to code for other consoles like 7800 or SMS, more and better games. But the monopolistic, communistic attitude of Nintendo didn't allow it.

It still baffles me on how USA did let this happen, the land of the free and competition? Bonkers.

Edited November 14, 2016 by high voltage

[empsolo]

"monopolistic, communistic attitude

These terms are mutually contradictory. Choose one.

[BillLoguidice]

"What if" companies developing games for NES were allowed to code for other consoles like 7800 or SMS, more and better games. But the monopolistic, communistic attitude of Nintendo didn't allow it.

It still baffles me on how USA did let this happen, the land of the free and competition? Bonkers.

 

This is familiar territory and I'd hate to turn this into yet another "what if?" and "vs." thread, but certainly it can be argued that Nintendo's "aggressive" business practices were exactly what was needed to reinvigorate the industry. Fortunately, when it was no longer needed, it was eventually cast aside and we returned to a more normalized, competitive marketplace.

[Flojomojo]

monopolistic, communistic

 

These terms are mutually contradictory. Choose one.

 

[empsolo]

Fundamentally Atari Corp needed dev teams that could really push the edge of game development. Something like the R&D teams that Nintendo tasked with coming up newer and cutting edge games as the system continued on. At some point Atari needed to realize that it could not rest on the laurels of yesterday's arcade hits and needed to give the American public something new.

 

 

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[+save2600]

Back to the comparisons, I'll take 7800 Xenophobe over the NES's any day! I know it's not particularly anybody's favorite game, but this is one example where the 7800 has better graphics and more colors.

[Tangentg]

I don't care for any of these games listed. To me, they don't represent the NES, but the previous generation before it. When I think of the NES, I think of the advances in game design. I think of games like Zelda, SMB, Metriod, Megaman, etc - and moving forward from there. These old arcade games? Meh. Which is pretty much the 7800 to me. Meh. Too bad it didn't partake in the newer game designs of the time, instead of focusing on old stuff. Even a game like Commando, seemed old and primitive on the NES, let alone on the 7800 - and that's about as modern game design you get on the 7800.

 

About the Super DodgeBall comment, I'm sure the flicker would be non-existent on the 7800, but there would be less detail in the background image because of it - and low res to boot. Not sure a combination of both would make it a superior port.

 

 

I think it's natural that the 7800 games were "older-styled" in comparison to the NES cause the 7800 stuff were really done before the NES came. It just wasn't released until the NES was.

 

And personally, the popular NES titles like Super Mario Bros and Metroid haven't interested me. Maybe I might give Megaman a try some time since it looks alright, but old arcade games are more appealing to me than those ultra-long-and-more-complicated sidescrolling NES platformers.

 

Though the 7800 does lack in number of games by a long stretch.

 

 

Back to the comparisons, I'll take 7800 Xenophobe over the NES's any day! I know it's not particularly anybody's favorite game, but this is one example where the 7800 has better graphics and more colors.

 

I've played Xenophobe on the NES for a bit and have never tried the Atari 7800 version, mostly because of negative reviews on both. I should probably check the 7800 version out again some time...

[Tangentg]

 

NES rampage has two player--maybe I'm missing something here.

IIRC it was drop in/out simultaneous, and the game let players keep winning if either was still alive.

 

Its written right on the back of the box, in big letters above the title.

 

I tried Rampage on a Famiclone when I had a friend over. Basically I didn't have the box and I pressed start and I didn't see any option for having a second player. Do you need to press Start with the second controller or something?

 

Also the enemies seem better in the 7800 version and each hit takes a bit of your health away, unlike the NES version where you take many hits without the health bar diminishing and when it does diminish it does so by a lot.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Tangentg

[BassGuitari]

...I'll take 7800 Xenophobe over the NES's any day! I know it's not particularly anybody's favorite game...

 

 

 

I've played Xenophobe on the NES for a bit and have never tried the Atari 7800 version, mostly because of negative reviews on both. I should probably check the 7800 version out again some time...

I like Xenophobe...

[Tangentg]

 

 

I like Xenophobe...

I should give it a try again then.

[+save2600]

Didn't mean to make it sound as if *nobody* likes it, just seems *most* do not care for the home versions. I happen to like both the 2600 and 7800 version of this and consider them staples in my collection. A decent little alien blast 'em up that's fun in short bursts anyway.

[CatPix]

It still baffles me on how USA did let this happen, the land of the free and competition? Bonkers.

Because it took place in Japan, NOT in the US?

Only a tiny handful of Western developers made games on the NES, most were from Japanese origins..

And it's not as if Nintendo had imposed quotas on the consoles releases, or someting.

The relationship between Nintendo and programmers was quite akin to the relationship with book and music editors, and this practice is commonplace. Some authors are legally obligated by contract to deliver a book every year/twoyears, etc. Some are asked to NOT publish more than X book for X time.

 

The summer hits titles are made by groups you'll only heard once, because it's how they signed their contracts : make one or two songs, go sing in in concerts for the summer, and then, bye, you will never be seen again.

Edited November 14, 2016 by CatPix

[Flojomojo]

The graphics in 7800 Xenophobe seem much more solid and cartooney than the flickery junk of the NES. It's a fun little zoner game. I like the Interstellar Root Cellar.

[Flojomojo]

Because it took place in Japan, NOT in the US?

Only a tiny handful of Western developers made games on the NES, most were from Japanese countries.

And it's not as if Nintendo had imposed quotas on the consoles releases, or someting.

The relationship between Nintendo and programmers was quite akin to the relationship with book and music editors, and this ppractive is commonplaces. Some authors are legally obligated by contract to deliver a book every year/twoyears, etc. Some are asked to NOT publish more than * book for * time.

The summer hits titles are made by groups you'll only heard once, because it's how they signed their contracts : make one or two songs, go sing in in concerts for the summer, and then, bye, you will never be seen again.

 

It's my understanding that this is how outfits like LJN, Akklaim, Tengen got started -- to circumvent Nintendo's "only two games per publisher per year" restrictions.

[MaximRecoil]

About the Super DodgeBall comment, I'm sure the flicker would be non-existent on the 7800, but there would be less detail in the background image because of it - and low res to boot. Not sure a combination of both would make it a superior port.

 

The 7800 has a 320 x 240 mode, which is higher resolution than the NES (256 x 240), but I'm not a programmer, so I don't know the caveats/limitation of using that mode. If 320 x 240 could be used for a Dodge Ball port, and if it doesn't carry with it some weird limitations like only having 4 colors or something like that, I would expect it to have at least passable graphics, and without the severe flicker of the NES version. The Pokey sound chip would be a must, because the NES Dodge Ball has some good music, especially the tune that plays during the final match (the "mirror match").

[R.Cade]

I am an Atari fan, but I don't think I would judge DK and DK Jr. as a tie for these systems. Just for the bad sound on the 7800 alone... on those games it is really bad.

Edited November 14, 2016 by R.Cade