2017 Flashback FAQ and Speculation Thread

[BillLoguidice]

Is there any chance of cartridge support for the Atari line? I realize this would be more of a niche feature, but still cool.

 

Not for this coming year. If the emulation is able to be significantly improved then it may make more sense to do exactly that.

Edited November 29, 2016 by BillLoguidice

[Atariboy]

Is it safe to say that that new product that you said might sneak out late this year, isn't going to be happening now that we're almost into December?

[BillLoguidice]

Is it safe to say that that new product that you said might sneak out late this year, isn't going to be happening now that we're almost into December?

 

It's quite close to being finished, but I do think it will have difficulty seeing release this year. If that somehow changes, though, I'll of course let everyone know.

[Havok69]

Wait! I figured it out. The new product is....

 

Atari Video Music...

 

Portable!

 

with SD card!

 

And 6 buttons!

[bikeguychicago]

I've always wondered why 7800 games (and possibly 5200 ones) can't be included in the mix. I'm sure the portable button arrangement can be tweaked a bit to provide an A/B button combination.

[bikeguychicago]

OK, I will let out one big hint. Unlike what was previously assumed (and indicated by me), there will be improved versions of existing models, as well as models based around completely new hardware. I don't personally agree with the approach, but it's kind of a low price/high price strategy to satisfy more of the market. Depending upon how things go, that strategy may simplify in 2018.

 

We will definitely be moving forward with more Atari/Sega products, and there will be at least one, possibly two new additions to the line-up based around other properties. Of course, the Flashback Classics line-up is also expected to expand. I'll say no more.

Any hint on the future of the Intellivision/Colecovision Flashback models?

[BillLoguidice]

I've always wondered why 7800 games (and possibly 5200 ones) can't be included in the mix. I'm sure the portable button arrangement can be tweaked a bit to provide an A/B button combination.

 

Lack of nostalgia for those products from the mass market audience. For better or worse, when the average person thinks Atari, they think of Atari 2600 and select arcade games. Nothing else really registers. There are also a relative dearth of recognizable, available titles for both platforms.

 

Another issue with the 5200 is its unique controller. That's just not cost-effective to reproduce for the relative value in its library.

 

With all of that said, I think you may be pleasantly surprised with some future Flashback Classics software volumes.

[BillLoguidice]

Any hint on the future of the Intellivision/Colecovision Flashback models?

 

We've talked about this quite a bit in the past. There is no future in hardware for those products, at least from AtGames. They were one and done due to relative sales.

[Flojomojo]

For better or worse, when the average person thinks Atari, they think of Atari 2600 and select arcade games. Nothing else really registers.

This is why I'm very glad the Atari Flashback Portable has an SD card slot. It's a lot more like a "real" Atari when I can play something other than Asteroids, Missile Command, and Yars' Revenge. Those are all great, but they weren't the only games, despite what classic collections would have you believe.

 

Even the US Postal Service chose a licensed game for the only stamp with Atari on it.

 

[BillLoguidice]

This is why I'm very glad the Atari Flashback Portable has an SD card slot. It's a lot more like a "real" Atari when I can play something other than Asteroids, Missile Command, and Yars' Revenge. Those are all great, but they weren't the only games, despite what classic collections would have you believe.

 

Even the US Postal Service chose a licensed game for the only stamp with Atari on it.

 

I agree 100%. As you well know, there's a difference between what we as enthusiasts have access to and what a legitimate business reasonably has access to. It's one of the great failings of our industry that we can't make better/easier use of an extraordinary back catalog (of software), particularly in comparison to other forms of media. Rights and who does or does not have access to them is a damned mess in the world of videogames.

[Atariboy]

It's often not much better with music, movies and tv shows, either.

[Flojomojo]

It's often not much better with music, movies and tv shows, either.

I wonder how much time and treasure was spent to get Spider-Man into Captain America: Civil War. Or the back-room dealings that finally resulted in a home video release of Batman '66, almost fifty years later. These companies are leaving money on the table by making "piracy" the more attractive alternative, but working out all those deals must be costly, too.

[Flojomojo]

In which Bill L coyly lets slip plans for a 2017 release containing Pac-Man, Space Invaders, Centipede, and Asteroids

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/259766-does-this-plug-play-exist/page-1?do=findComment&comment=3645650

[Tanooki]

Can't speak to the atari flashback, but a third party from another website who does reviews claims atgames said next years Genesis unit will finally have proper emulation across the board, audio, visual, and game saving. Scrapped the awful existing firecore and licensed (or cooked up?) something better. I anticipate this if it ends up truthful.

[BillLoguidice]

Can't speak to the atari flashback, but a third party from another website who does reviews claims atgames said next years Genesis unit will finally have proper emulation across the board, audio, visual, and game saving. Scrapped the awful existing firecore and licensed (or cooked up?) something better. I anticipate this if it ends up truthful.

 

As I mentioned in the other thread and elsewhere, yes, there will be a greatly expanded hardware line-up in 2017 (at least 7 SKUs, not counting retailer variations) that will use a variety of (mostly) new/previously unreleased hardware bases with necessary tweaks, and there will be a big boost in hardware/software features across almost all of the hardware product line. All R&D is internal, so no licensing of technology, just IPs for content.

[Iwantgames:)]

I'd like to see a Intellivision Flashback Portable with SD Card Support. Probably won't happen I know, but playing Christmas Carol vs The Ghost of Christmas Presents on a IFP would be pretty sweet!

[BillLoguidice]

I'd like to see a Intellivision Flashback Portable with SD Card Support. Probably won't happen I know, but playing Christmas Carol vs The Ghost of Christmas Presents on a IFP would be pretty sweet!

 

It won't happen, at least from AtGames, but, as discussed in other threads, it would indeed be neat to have a proper Intellivision portable. If it were done intelligently, it could double as a ColecoVision and 5200 handheld (and any other console that used number pad controllers) as well. Here's hoping someone figures out a way to homebrew something like that.

[Atariboy]

There's hope there at least on the compilation front though, right?

 

While I'm sure that there's not a prayer of external rom support on the Xbox One and Playstation 4, past Intellivision collections seemed to do well enough even if the platform failed as a plug and play for AtGames (Despite it being a natural for such a product given the controllers that were so crucial to the experience, or that awful earlier attempt from another company that seemed to sell in huge numbers).

 

Speaking of this, I bet it didn't help AtGames any. Anyone with the misfortune of buying this or being gifted it that had an Intellivision as a child, likely came away soured on the entire deal and wrote the system off as something best left to their childhood memories.

[BillLoguidice]

There's hope there at least on the compilation front though, right?

 

While I'm sure that there's not a prayer of external rom support on the Xbox One and Playstation 4, past Intellivision collections seemed to do well enough even if the platform failed as a plug and play for AtGames (Despite it being a natural for such a product given the controllers that were so crucial to the experience, or that awful earlier attempt from another company that seemed to sell in huge numbers).

 

Speaking of this, I bet it didn't help AtGames any. Anyone with the misfortune of buying this or being gifted it that had an Intellivision as a child, likely came away soured on the entire deal and wrote the system off as something best left to their childhood memories.

 

 

It's important to remember that that earlier attempt was at a time when the market was extremely different from what it is now. Even mediocre units sold in droves. I think the novelty has kind of worn off (several years back in fact), and it will now be as much about compelling titles and overall quality as it will be about anything else. Certainly the NES Mini points to that.

 

Again, Intellivision and ColecoVision entries are always am ultra slim possibility on Xbox One and PS4 (and Switch if that ever becomes a factor), but I think we want to make the PC versions better first (and there's quite a bit of room for improvement there).

[Akito01]

So, it looks as if 2017 is the year all the clone console manufacturers are making the leap to HD. At CES, Innex has announced an HDMI version of their Retrobit Entertainment System for $40 as well as an HD Super Retro Trio later in the yaer, and Gamerz Tek has apparently already released a similar HD upgrade to their clone 8-Bit System as well. Hyperkin already has their RetroN5, but I'd be very surprised if we don't see a low end HD solution added to their product line as well.

 

This could be and should be an exciting development, especially as modern TVs increasingly close the loop on analog inputs, leaving legacy hardware behind. Because all of this is so new, there isn't any firm information about exactly HOW these devices are generating their HD signals. Either they are using an emulation layer, such as in the RetroN5 or NES Classic Mini, or via an inexpensive AV upscaler. When it was announced, people immediately speculated that the Retrobit machines will be using whatever is powering their Retrobit Generations console (unghh...) On the other hand, the 'quality' of video seen on the Gamerz Tek console is suggestive of an upscaler being applied to their already existing NOAC design.

 

Truth is, until these machines are taken apart, we don't really know for sure how they are working. If only we had someone on the inside, someone who has worked side by side with a clone console maker who deals with Chinese manufacturing and technology plants to give some potential insight...

Edited January 8, 2017 by Akito01

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

I disagree (but not about the dreaming part). I don't think the average person even knows what a 5200 or 7800 is. They respond to certain big name systems (Atari 2600, Genesis, NES, etc.) and, obviously, big name games.

 

As stated, we will be expanding the hardware line-up in 2017. I can tell you, though, that it won't involve anything related to the 5200 or 7800 (or Atari 8-bit computers). The best chance for that is with the Atari Flashback Classics line-up for the PS4 and Xbox One (and maybe eventually PC).

I think an "Atari" flashback device would benefit from some of the 7800 ports of games that were of higher graphical fidelity than their 2600 counterparts. Also some nice exclusives too. Stuff like Food Fight or Robotron, superior ports of games like Centipede or Asteroids, I couldn't see hurting by throwing them on an Atari Flashback amidst a mix of 2600 titles.

 

One big issue with licensing 2600/7800 games is that Namco properties like Pacman, Ms Pacman, Galaxian, Galaga, Dig Dug, et all are being commercialized with their own plug and play units as well as console ports of Namco Museum which come around every generation. The fact Namco arcade properties are being commercialized makes it less likely that any inferior Atari ports of the games will see light of day.

 

I think from a consumer point of view, a PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16 Flashback would attract more buyers than an Atari 5200/XEGS or 7800 Flashback.

A Turbo/PCe plug and play system would be like a wet dream come true for me. The games are light years beyond anything that existed on the Coleco and Intelli flashbacks in terms of replayability. This would be far more desirable than the Coleco/Intelli stuff, and now that Hudson/Konami have merged, most of the best games are now owned by the same parent company making licensing deals easier to negotiate.

 

So, it looks as if 2017 is the year all the clone console manufacturers are making the leap to HD. At CES, Innex has announced an HDMI version of their Retrobit Entertainment System for $40 as well as an HD Super Retro Trio later in the yaer, and Gamerz Tek has apparently already released a similar HD upgrade to their clone 8-Bit System as well. Hyperkin already has their RetroN5, but I'd be very surprised if we don't see a low end HD solution added to their product line as well.

 

This could be and should be an exciting development, especially as modern TVs increasingly close the loop on analog inputs, leaving legacy hardware behind. Because all of this is so new, there isn't any firm information about exactly HOW these devices are generating their HD signals. Either they are using an emulation layer, such as in the RetroN5 or NES Classic Mini, or via an inexpensive AV upscaler. When it was announced, people immediately speculated that the Retrobit machines will be using whatever is powering their Retrobit Generations console (unghh...) On the other hand, the 'quality' of video seen on the Gamerz Tek console is suggestive of an upscaler being applied to their already existing NOAC design.

 

Truth is, until these machines are taken apart, we don't really know for sure how they are working. If only we had someone on the inside, someone who has worked side by side with a clone console maker who deals with Chinese manufacturing and technology plants to give some potential insight...

I too wonder how much longer Composite/RF will be around on modern sets. While the signal doesn't look "bad" on my 2006 Sanyo HDTV, there is noticeable lag that I don't get with HDMI connections. And my current HDTV is ten years old and support is gradually getting worse on these newer displays. Most chipsets with the integrated Component/Composite leads have poorer compatibility compared to older sets with discrete inputs, and it's only getting worse. Meanwhile HDMI is cheap enough and ubiquitous enough that even the cheap Mini computers like the Raspberry Pi have it, so it is no longer cost prohibitive to release gadgets with HD capable outputs.

 

As for the clone consoles, the System on a Chip to upscaler will likely have lag problems and the same artifacting issues, and the emulator consoles have similar but vastly different compatibility problems. NES homebrews absolutely don't work on any of the emulator clones, which use a CRC database to look up the cart mappers and apply the proper header.

[doctorclu]

I was suggested to repost this here, so my WISH LIST / SUGGESTIONS for the next Atari Flashback Portable:

 

So again, realizing 2017 is probably locked at this point, but for a 2018 or 2019 AFP (love the little sucker) Aside from:

- Corrected emulation (from all that we have learned on how vBlank is not emulated properly yet an other emulation issues)

- Use Atgames wireless controllers.

- Ability to connect AFP's for a 2 to 4 player game wirelessly.

 

I think it would be awesome if there was a media player.

 

We have up to 8 gb of space to use, and only use like 4 mb of it? Would be nice if you could switch it to music mode and listen to some tunes for a great use of the extra space. An .MP3 player or some media format.

 

On the Sega Flashback Portable I was able to find the VGM player that plays on the Genesis which gives me the music the Sega Genesis games. So on the Genesis you have at least that option for lots of music.

 

But on the Atari VCS/2600 you just have the occasional demo which doesn't provide much music.

 

---------------

 

Reading the other message traffic in this thread seems to be about Flashbacks in general? All and all I lost interest in the console plug in plays when actual possible cartridge support was lost after the Flashback 2. I know the reason for that and I understand, but I have not bought one since. Not any malice, just no interest in a system with a limited number of games with no possibility of playing others.

 

With the Atari Flashback Portable the SD support was a big draw for me, and at last count about 668 working games on the AFP, so loving it!

 

And as suggested before, a larger screen on the AFP is nice. I know you had the screen you had from the Sega Gopher hardware so that too is understandable.

[gambler172]

Lack of nostalgia for those products from the mass market audience. For better or worse, when the average person thinks Atari, they think of Atari 2600 and select arcade games. Nothing else really registers. There are also a relative dearth of recognizable, available titles for both platforms.

 

Another issue with the 5200 is its unique controller. That's just not cost-effective to reproduce for the relative value in its library.

 

With all of that said, I think you may be pleasantly surprised with some future Flashback Classics software volumes.

 

Hi Bill

I do not agree...the 7800 has many great games and a

great community with lots of great homebrew games...

Just ask....I am sure programmers like Bob would be proud

to see their games on a 7800 flashback.And the 7800 is near 33years old......some kind of retro and nostalgic.

 

greetings Walter

[BillLoguidice]

Hi Bill

I do not agree...the 7800 has many great games and a

great community with lots of great homebrew games...

Just ask....I am sure programmers like Bob would be proud

to see their games on a 7800 flashback.And the 7800 is near 33years old......some kind of retro and nostalgic.

 

greetings Walter

 

The fact of the matter is is that Atari only has a handful of 7800 games in their possession, there was a dearth of third party stuff (let alone available third party stuff), and there's not a proven mass market interest in new homebrews for old systems. What sells these collections are well-known game titles and/or a well-known game system attached. The Atari 7800 has little of the former and is definitely not the latter. Again, I'm not saying it won't happen with the software-based SKUs, but even that would be have to be 7800 stuff mixed in with more recognizable titles from other platforms.

[doctorclu]

I guess the big question when it comes to the 7800 and 5200 is "are there any Atari titles that can be added to the Flashback"?

 

Atari specific. No Williams (I love 7800 and 5200 Joust over the 2600!) And no Parker Brothers, and so on. What Atari titles are on those systems that make it worth it?