Matej Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) Hello friends! I am looking at site where are brand new German C64 reloaded and Czech ZX48k Sparrow motherboards: https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/shop/product/c64-reloaded.html http://www.8bity.cz/2015/nahrada-desky-sinclair-zx-spectrum-48k-jiiira-sparrow-lite/ And I am dreaming about Atari version little bit... Lets brainstorm whole concept... ATARI XE RENEW motherboard (aka Atari XE-R): My dream is to have 65XE/800XE eci motherboard but with brand new PCB and some brand new parts: - 6502 (overclockable to 3,58MHz??? Or maybe latter with Rapidus 65c816???) - VBXE 2.x - Stereo Final Pokey Upgrade or TK-2 stereo with PS/2 keyboard? - Ultimate 1MB (with SpartaDOS+QMEG) or maybe Antonia 4MB upgrade? - Build in internal SIDE - compact flash interface (works as internal SSD/HDD) - HDMI video out - 2x golden cich audio out - Build in SDrive or Sio2SD? - Build in SONARI (opl3+AY) soundcard or SoundBoard? + COVOX - white PCB - 1x led Power 1x led SD loading 1x led playing stereo New parts+old parts together. How should it works? You will pay and send your old: 800XE,65XE,130XE motherboard to RENEW company or team. And recieve Atari XE-R motherboard from them. This XE-R will create brand new standard (like AMIGA 500plus or MSX2+ was) so everyone will have same specs. So higly optimized amazing games, demos or apps will be working on everyones ATARI XE-R. Here is my petition for this: https://www.change.org/p/lotharek-renew-motherboard-atari-800xe-xl-compatible Edited November 22, 2016 by Matej 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poison Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) i miss COVOX, qmeg and internal flash cart up to 16mb. So good should be some game freezer (internal snap saver) Edited November 22, 2016 by Poison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 i miss COVOX, qmeg and internal flash cart up to 16mb. So good should be some game freezer (internal snap saver) FIXED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) Hello Matej - 6502 (overclockable to 3,58MHz???...) Why not use the 14,318MHz from the crystal that's already inside the XE? Maybe with the possibility to select half, a quarter or one eighth of that frequency. 6502C! - VBXE 2.x Yes - Stereo Final Pokey Upgrade or TK-2 stereo with PS/2 keyboard? Stereo, yes, TKx, not interested - Ultimate 1MB (with SpartaDOS+QMEG) or maybe Antonia 4MB upgrade? Don't want the U1MB or SpartaDOS. Don't need Antonia. - Build in internal SIDE - compact flash interface (works as internal SSD/HDD) Don't need that - HDMI video out- 2x golden cinch audio out- Build in SDrive or Sio2SD? Yes, yes and yes. - Build in SONARI (opl3+AY) soundcard or SoundBoard? + COVOX Covox is enough. Maybe with the American Covox (input device!) - white PCB Color isn't that important, but it should be a nice color - 1x led Power 1x led SD loading 1x led playing stereo Yes Sincerely Mathy Edited November 22, 2016 by Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Change . org petitions = WASTE OF TIME. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo-Rio Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) The purpose of the C64-Reloaded was to make a drop in replacement motherboard for a Commodore 64. What made the C64 great was that all motherboards were 99% backwards compatible with each other and would fit into any C64 case. In the case of the C64-R, there was also a kickstarter that pressed out brand new C64 cases from the original moulds. I managed to put together a brand new C64 from spare chips, only needing to find some 3d printed keyboard mounts, and to scavenge a keyboard from a dead C64. In the case of Atari 8-bits? So many different models..... making a replacement motherboard is mostly out of the question unless you limit it to one form factor (800XLs, most likely), but even then I doubt you will get people wanting to cannibalize their 800XLs. The C64 was made in the millions and can broken ones can still be easily found, repaired, or scrapped for parts. Ataris?.... not so much. If you're going to go for the complete Atari remake, you may as well build a new computer from scratch, throw in as many updates and features that you like, redesign a new case, and redesign a new keyboard. ....Or just use a MIST. Edited November 22, 2016 by Neo-Rio 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) @ Mathy-I will fix it tomorrow! @Oldschoolretrogamer - Change . org petitions = WASTE OF TIME. When there will be 100 signatures I will talk to Lotharek ! @NeoRio - 1.) Atari 65XE/Atari130XE/Atari800XE = same case! 2.) There was 2-3 million XE produced in US, Taiwan or in 90s in China and some in Poland. But micro ATX XE will be also nice! Edited November 22, 2016 by Matej Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo-Rio Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) But micro ATX XE will be also nice! Good point, but I would probably go for a mini-ITX form factor these days A PC form factor would warrant the requirement of a PS/2 or USB compatible keyboard interface though. ...and I suppose the XE series (with the notable XEGS exception) is prime for motherboard replacement, given that the quality on the original boards was very poor anyway, meaning that some cases could at least be salvaged. Also, Best has plenty of replacement XE keyboards and key rubber kits, so even if you hated the keyboard you could do something about it. I'm also guessing that Best has a lot of spare POKEYs and other 8-bit chips too,... but I'm only guessing. Edited November 23, 2016 by Neo-Rio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLund1 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Similar ideas have been floated here many times over the years. All with good intentions. But none have gone little more than what you have here. If you are really intent on doing something like this, I would suggest putting a COMPLETE idea through manufacturing plan together with costing numbers, checking the legal stuff and make a KickStarter from it. Have all your ducks in a row first. I would give this advise to everyone that has similar ideas, of which there seems to be no end. Talking with Lotharek would be a great place to start. Also look at how the Atari ST FireBee came into existence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) I don't think this would ever become a new standard, as there are too many who like their Atari's basically what they originally designed to be, maybe a stereo, memory,video circuit upgrade, but beyond that it's not the Atari they love anymore, and too many who would just as soon install all those upgrades into their original Atari motherboards and are quite content with S-video or VBXE RGB out (which can be converted to VGA or HDMI with a converter box between the computer and monitor. IF enough people did these upgrades on current machines to warrant an explosion of software taking advantage of it, then you might attract enough buyers in the long run for a new motherboard. But at this point, I think the market value would be less than the current upgrades are now. Maybe in a few years if more software taking advantage of all the new hardware is created. It might sell better too, if it wasn't a drop-in to an old case, but like the new Sinclair Spectrum remake, that people can have instead of the original Spectrum, or as a second alongside their original Spectrum: http://sinclair.recreatedzxspectrum.com In designing a case for a recreated Atari, maybe it could be offered in a smaller, lower profile, but distinctively 800 looking case, but about the size of the 800XL and XE computer cases, and XL and XE styled cases too, so everyone can have the line look of their choice. And this new recreated Atari, should still be able to use original Atari peripherals with cartridge, joystick and SIO ports still included. Edited November 23, 2016 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Similar ideas have been floated here many times over the years. All with good intentions. But none have gone little more than what you have here. If you are really intent on doing something like this, I would suggest putting a COMPLETE idea through manufacturing plan together with costing numbers, checking the legal stuff and make a KickStarter from it. Have all your ducks in a row first. I would give this advise to everyone that has similar ideas, of which there seems to be no end. Talking with Lotharek would be a great place to start. Also look at how the Atari ST FireBee came into existence. Yeah I did some research on this a while back, and yes this, or a similar theme has been played out before with not much to show for it. Partly I think this occurs because the original petitioner lets everybody else's do's and don'ts influence too much what they originally had in mind, getting to the point where it's no longer anything like what they wanted to try and create in the first place. Luckily for us the people behind the original 400/800 didn't take a poll and/or wait for a consensus, otherwise we probably wouldn't of had anything to even discuss. So Matej my suggestion would be to follow your gut and if you really want to see this become a reality then just go for it, because as the song goes "if you can't please everybody, then you've got to please yourself". I for one would welcome any new creation of this magnitude into the A8 world - Michael 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 Atari Area: http://www.atari.org.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=14300 Chipmusic.ORG: http://chipmusic.org/forums/topic/19215/atari-xe-renew-xer-petition/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Not knocking it but if its made will it not be horrendously expensive? Also, isn't the C64 one based around VICE, meaning its a WIP item that will need updating, the flash updating not the issue, the fact its going to need folk to work on it? I just can't imagine that Atari or whoever now owns the roms will give permission... Just part of the discussion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 PRICE Well 250Euro-300Euro... But when you buy Atari 130XE from ebay and all that upgrades you will pay 400Euro-500Euro. Good is that we will be able to use old defunct motherboards. For example you have one not working at home. Or you will pick up from auction for 5Euro or so... ROM You will use original ATARI rom from old ATARI motherboard so you will not copy original rom at all... Its all just brainstorming. But when I will have 100 signatures I will talk with Lotharek and other HW geeks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 The ROM issue is mute, since the original hex code is readily available from several websites for DIY burns to EEPROM's which is how emulators have skirted the ownership problem for years. The same thing would apply to real hardware, where the ROM's are supplied by the user, not by the producer of the new motherboard. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Glad to hear there are options...Its not for me unless the lottery is well and truly won 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemiel Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 But who will wrote CPLD/FPGA code and design PCB. And who will inwest few cars in cash in this R&D, parts, production and selling? Freezing money for few years is not easy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 "But who will wrote CPLD/FPGA code and design PCB. And who will inwest few cars in cash in this R&D, parts, production and selling?Freezing money for few years is not easy." FPGA is already written (VBXE, AY in FPGA). This will be more like new atari PCB with onboard upgrades. Not FPGA clone. Kickstarter? Indiegogo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 How such games should on VBXE+1MB+SONARI looks like??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Talk about overkill. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I would prefer a solution similar to Spectrum Next: http://www.specnext.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 As much as I would like to have an enhanced, yet compatable Atari, or any classic system for that matter out of the gate, to both preserve and future-forward it a little (make it something I and future generations are more likely to wish to use.), really need to pin down the basic design, first. Work on getting the current base foot-print to a standardized level, by reworking the board design, removing things that arent likely to have as much use in the future, like RF, it's traces, supportive bits, doing the same with the memory, as it can be stored on a single IC, yes, with some bits added, but much more unneeded legacy architecture removed. Let that stand as a base reference. Get as clean of a design as possible, that most people would be comfortable with. With modern resistors and modern mounting techniques, even using legacy ICs, you should be able to get the size of the board still much smaller than the 600XL. Have the tap-points for things like keyboard , I/O, A/V be clearly tappable. Since it would be smaller than legacy hardware, maybe take in mind where te previous boards sat in their respective cases and consider placing pilot holes for differing mounting situations, if use of legacy cases might be desired. Would be nice to take modern enhancements, in mind when doing so, and create the board in such a way that those may be added, as wished, with as little fuss as possible, for more casual users who are curious, but aren't as indept at the hardware hacky-hack. (Not sure, but the usual data-lines on the ICs might have headers on the sockets one can tap into and the areas connecting certain resistors / diodes also having tap ponts for pluggable connections?) Sure I'm over-looking a lot of considerations that others will correct me on, but thought I'd throw those suggestions into the wild. Or , as others have said - wouldn't mind a good FPGA or whatever compatable device, that can utilize legacy stuffs, as well as wrangle enhanced roduction (faster CPU, more sound channels, more color, etc - goodies.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemiel Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 "But who will wrote CPLD/FPGA code and design PCB. And who will inwest few cars in cash in this R&D, parts, production and selling? Freezing money for few years is not easy." FPGA is already written (VBXE, AY in FPGA). This will be more like new atari PCB with onboard upgrades. Not FPGA clone. Kickstarter? Indiegogo? Do we have sources of these written in FPGA/CPLD? Work of Pasiu, Candle, Electron, Simius, Hias, megaHZ, Tf_fh, Foft, Mytekcontrols, Electrotrains, Kris (sdrive ng), Acid, Raster, Bobik, Phaeron, Lotharek and others (sorry, do not know who else should be added to list). Do we have tallented and skilled person(s) which will project PCB and append all these IP in one product? And (organize 'event' and) produce this wonderfull toy? Do we have anything more than simply idea to offer it on Indiegogo or Kickstarter? First to pay to that/these person/s for their work. Do we have source for all needed parts? Why SIDE and not full PBI compliant IDEPlus? Why no FIFO? Why no new Simius GTIA in CPLD elements? Why no Turbo Freezer? Why no Tomek-8? Why only HDMI - do we have enough cash to pay royalties? Why no 4 MB from Antonia? What about MapRAM of XXL? Why no 65816? Many others things to brainstorm and waste precious time. PCB color demand sounds like a joke. Of course it should look nice but is not important. Sorry, it is not possible now in this Universe. Full FPGA clone is just cheaper in every dimension. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Its turning in to a monster The Franken XL is born 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndusGT Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 oh yeah, ADD me to that !!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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