dragos Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Not knocking it but if its made will it not be horrendously expensive? Also, isn't the C64 one based around VICE, meaning its a WIP item that will need updating, the flash updating not the issue, the fact its going to need folk to work on it? I just can't imagine that Atari or whoever now owns the roms will give permission... Just part of the discussion... Its not "based on vice" in any way, shape or form. Its a real motherboard that uses REAL CHIPS, not emulation.... Its a finished product, I have two, they are very nice image by markgladson, on Flickr 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted November 25, 2016 Author Share Posted November 25, 2016 5 Supporters!!! Thanks! https://www.change.org/p/lotharek-renew-motherboard-atari-800xe-xl-compatible Anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vattari Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Add me to the list! Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) Its not "based on vice" in any way, shape or form. Its a real motherboard that uses REAL CHIPS, not emulation.... Its a finished product, I have two, they are very nice image by markgladson, on Flickr That looks sweet, sorry I've seen something on Youtube with a VICE type interface that was supposed to be an FPGA and it seemed to be clearly emulation... What SID is on that? Oh, what cost (not that I can afford one..) just curious... Thanks for the update and info.. Paul. Edited November 25, 2016 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted November 30, 2016 Author Share Posted November 30, 2016 Little motivation: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Thank you Matej Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Just watched it, very very nice but WAY WAY WAY out of my league price wise..Shame, its the only retro machine I don't have anymore that I previously owned, lost all my C64's, dolphin dos drives etc etc Still, emulation is bearable on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Make a multi OS chip that can optionally boot up with the 400/800 OS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtarinDave Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Hey sure, add me to the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 Make a multi OS chip that can optionally boot up with the 400/800 OS. Ultimate 1mb have 4x flashable ROM slots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam242 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Make a multi OS chip that can optionally boot up with the 400/800 OS. The Atarimax 32-in-1 solves this problem nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbeOwitz Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I would like to see something more like the RC-2014, http://rc2014.co.uk/ We could design backplane boards that fit in each Atari case, and plugin the modules we want. I suggest a modular architecture so we could use an FPGA, 65816 or 6502 as a CPU, or VBXE or an ANTIC/GTIA board for video out. In my 800XL, you'd have an L-shaped backplane board that fits all the IO ports, but can stack 2 cards deep on the side. OTOH, the 800 would have upright slots... I'm also looking into 65SPI, which would allow a bunch of cool hardware addons. http://sbc.rictor.org/io/65spi.html So, that could be a card as well... With SPI or I2C, we could easily add Ethernet or WiFI chips with built in TCP/IP stacks, LCD screens, sensors, etc. The bus would need to handle 8-16MHz, and based on the 6502.org forums, that may be difficult to achieve. Alternatively, 3.3 volts internally and use modern components, and use voltage level converters on the I/O... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted December 3, 2016 Author Share Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) For now lets XE-R8 will be just standard for: - Atari 65XE/130XE800XE or 800XL- 1MB RAM or more (Ultimate 1MB, Satantronic 1MB, Antonia 4MB)- VBXE x.x- 2x Pokey (Final Stereo, Raster Stereo, )- SDrive or SIO2SD- SONARI soundcard cartridge (or similar product) XE-R16Same as XE-R8 + 658c16 (Rapidus, F7 Turbo, Hyperspeed, Drac030 XL) And later we will make board .I will ask Jookie, Lotharek when this standard will be established... So game cartridges or apps on www will have:XE/XL - 64kb, stereoXE-R8XE-R16 Something similar exist on ZX,MSX etc...ZX-enhancedMSX+ (better VDP, more RAM) C65 ATARI STE (+Blitter, 4096 colors) Amiga AGA 7800 XM (expansion module) SEGA 32X Simply first lets make simple word for new standard XE-R8 and XE-R16 and than lets make those PCBs. So people will have motivation to buy those PCBs. When there will be demos, games for it... And after PCB and when ATARI will open all chips and with more powerful FPGAs next thing will be make small Raspberry PI like XE-R FPGA versions. So everyone will know when there will be XE-R8 so game will use VBXE, 1MB ram, Pokey+AY+FM, huge ATR up to 16MB... Edited December 3, 2016 by Matej 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozar Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Since Altirra already supports these models, lets see some software that takes advantage of the enhancements before going through the process of making a board. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I started playing around with the idea of making a custom motherboard about a year ago, but in my scenario I was looking for making it compact as all get out, while still utilizing thru-hole chips (similar to the Compact 5200 System). It was to also take advantage of 3rd party upgrades such as the U1MB, but do so without ribbon cables (straight pin headers out the bottom of the U1MB to allow it to piggyback onto the motherboard which would have female headers to accept it). Of course it would incorporate all the stuff I have been working on directly into the motherboard design. So for instance... TK-II Stereo and V-Gate. And to keep things compact, all glue logic and associated MCU's would reside within the footprint of the 40 pin chips as these upgrades do now. I would also love to have a USB-Joystick 'ST' mouse integrated as well, but that still needs to be developed. So my thinking is to get it down to the footprint of the Nintendo Cube but minus the CD on top (and not so tall). The case would also be a custom creation as well. I still plan on doing this, but a lot of this is being dictated by development of supporting hardware first, which is still in process. As usual, my project is being made to 'my' desired specifications, and as such will likely not be in consensus to what others would like to see happen (this will initially start out as a 'closed' project). However also per my usual way of doing things, whatever I come up with at the 'end' of the project will be freely disseminated for all to use, or modify to their own requirements (it will inevitably become open source in the future). I fully encourage and support what is being discussed here due to its 'open' nature. And where applicable, all of my creations are freely available for possible integration into it with no need to ask me for permission (this even applies to a for profit situation). So with that said... carry on and make it great - Michael 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Off-Topic, encouraged by the last post... Yes, some software would be nice, but I would suggest that you don't REQUIRE Linear RAM above $FFFF just because an 816 is detected. It may be an 802 (which is an 816 with a 16 bit address bus that doesn't see RAM above $FFFF). What I am saying / asking / BEGGING, it that software should examine the machine and load appropriate routines to accommodate it. Don't use "illegal" NMOS 6502 opcodes if you see a newer chip. If you *DO* see an 802 or 816, use its enhanced instruction set. There could be so much good done here with amazing new software if we all could learn to accommodate to new or different hardware. It would be a great benefit to the community. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 For now lets XE-R8 will be just standard for: - Atari 65XE/130XE800XE or 800XL - 1MB RAM or more (Ultimate 1MB, Satantronic 1MB, Antonia 4MB) - VBXE x.x - 2x Pokey (Final Stereo, Raster Stereo, ) - SDrive or SIO2SD - SONARI soundcard cartridge (or similar product) I still say that's way overkill. It's way too cost-prohibitive for most people and the small userbase wouldn't really make software development worth it. Also funny that most of your examples were either incremental updates (Amiga AGA, STE, MSX2+), unreleased (7800XM, C65) or in the case of the 32X, a flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted December 4, 2016 Author Share Posted December 4, 2016 Maybe this will reduce cost as you will make only one PCB also you will be able use defunct A800 motherboards. Also upgrade process will be more automated. Also after ATARI will open XE pantents and with faster/bigger/cheaper FPGAs or ATARI-on-a-chip ASIC you will get cheap solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Maybe this will reduce cost as you will make only one PCB also you will be able use defunct A800 motherboards. Also upgrade process will be more automated. i think you're seriously underestimating both the cost and work required for this project; have you spoken to someone who does hardware like Lotharek to get an idea of what the development and production costs for this new platform would be or if he'd even be interested in taking it on? Who is going to be writing the software and have you asked them about what they need like documentation or even divined if there's an interest amongst programmers to begin with? Are you personally going to be contributing directly to these causes either technically or financially? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Also after ATARI will open XE pantents and with faster/bigger/cheaper FPGAs or ATARI-on-a-chip ASIC you will get cheap solution. Just so you know, any patents ran out long ago since the maximum lifespan of such is 20 years (17 years was probably the term for when Atari was still in business making A8's). So the only things still enforcible would be software/firmware copyrights which would be limited to the OS and built in Basic. And we all know that hasn't stopped anyone from making copies. Basically you would be within your legal rights to recreate the PCB and all of the chips that were used (Antic, GTIA, Pokey, Freddie, Sally, ect.), So long as the board was sold without Atari's specific OS's or Basic on board. However it could contain any of the alternative OS products. Basically treat this as you would an emulator (released without proprietary OS's or languages) and you won't get in trouble. - Michael 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted December 4, 2016 Author Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) @TMR - No but I will ask Lotharek on demoparty. Also I will ask Jookie (author of CosmosEX,satanDISK). Standard PCB will take 2-6 months of CAD drawing. No more. And when you will manufacture one smaller PCB instead of stereo, ultimate, vbxe, sio2sd... It can be cheaper than separate PCBs... But as I wrote when there will be 200 signatures of Atari users. I am sure Jookie, Lotharek, Candle will at least think about it! Also upgrading will be faster. This platform already exist! As upgrades boards. So there is software and documentation already written... There is also Altirra emulator with all those features build in! When this will not happen we will call upgraded Atari as XE-R. Price? 250-300Euro? Also when you will use one chip but more advanced FPGA for Ultimate,VBXE,AY part of SONARI in one package it will be cheaper! Edited December 4, 2016 by Matej Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blues76 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 This will be nice. Where do we sign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted December 6, 2016 Author Share Posted December 6, 2016 Here: https://www.change.org/p/lotharek-renew-motherboard-atari-800xe-xl-compatible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 15 supporters!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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