Exotic carts: id please?

[ianoid]

I would guess that this type of cart and graphics wasn't manufactured in Brazil, and that it is of Chinese/Taiwanese/HK origin. That doesn't help determine what they are.

 

I would be surprised to see these as Master System or MSX, considering how crude they are in so blatantly reused shells for a more recent system for their pirates. These companies seem capable of making shells more closely aligned with the aesthetic of the system they are pirating. It would be harder to sell them anyway, if they were unrecognizable by shape. I am trying to use logic here to rule out something I cannot exclude, clearly.

 

I favor an Arcadia clone or other unusual classic cart system. The carts are in pretty good condition, so I'm really reluctant to deconstruct one for dumping, but I would still consider it. I don't have the means to dump stuff myself though.

[CatPix]

I'm thinking Arcadia close, too. that Crazy race could be "3D Raceway", Cat and Rat would be "Cat trax", and Combat would be "Tanks a lot". Seems fitting.

[+stupus]

Yeah, I would bet on an undocumented arcadia clone. Maybe an Asian release? There is so much rare and undocumented Asian stuff. It never makes its way to usa or europe. Seems there is some connection to some of the weird arcadia stuff and Australia too.

 

I would say the 1 game is got to be cat trax.

 

The combat game though I would guess is the mpt03 combat over tanks alot.

And the racing 1 could be route 16....although if they are from Australia I would lean to word 3d grand prix 'Monaco grand prix'

 

I had also thought about a random gi console....but then they would probably not be it atari 2600 shells...

[Andromeda Stardust]

This is indeed a fascinating saga. Keep us posted when you find out the origin of these suckers. It may be necessary to poke one of the labels with a screwdriver in order to probe and trace the PCB.

 

Whatever system these games were made for must be super obscure. It is possible it's some Asia-only clone system in a totally different form factor compared to existing game machine, possibly with different pin count. I can't imagine the Asia pirates actually developing their own console, but I could definitely see them disguising a clone system in a different form factor and selling it as a new device. I imagine in such case sales may have been abysmal.

[Rick Dangerous]

Art looks very similar to this:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taiwan-Cooper-Popeye-For-Atari-2600-brand-new-/172416155638?hash=item2824cdbff6:g:DyMAAOSwZJBX~SEC

[CatPix]

That artwork is worth buying the game. It's not bad, but so cheesy, it could be a fitting alternate cover for Oktoberfest the video game (and yes, IT EXIST)

[alex_79]

Just noticed that the labels use the exact same layout and font as in Atari 2600 games from Suntek, except they lack the "trademark" symbol after the game title and the product number.

Edited November 29, 2016 by alex_79

[carlsson]

Something that strikes me is that on the boxes to the Suntek games, it says "For Use with ATARI®, ULTRAVISION, VCS & SEARS TELEGAMES".

 

As far as I know, the Ultravision Video Arcade System is said to be vaporware, but apparently real enough for a Taiwanese manufacturer to mention it on the boxes. Neither of the listed titles for this never released system matches the ones in the picture, and it sounds extremely far-fetched that Suntek would have developed a few games to be played in native Ultravision mode, before the system even was launched, but what if this is a reality? Third party support for a vaporware system...

 

Edit: I noticed that Australian (?) publisher Rainbow Vision used the exact same layout as Suntek, which brings us back to Australia, just like the Arcadia 2001 clone cartridges at Racketboy.

 

http://www.atarimania.com/list_games_atari-2600-vcs-rainbow-vision_publisher_29_2_G.html

Edited November 29, 2016 by carlsson

[CatPix]

I would suggest that Suntek got their bases covered, that's all. I never heard of the Ultravision, but a quick search bring that apparently, the system was announced to have modules to play Atari 2600 games (and Colecovision games, but that's not what we're looking for here).

IMO, Suntek might have though it would become a thing and wrote the Ultravision name on it, based on the assumption that it would be released AND have the VCS adapter module.

Edited November 29, 2016 by CatPix

[ianoid]

Yay! I got the Ultravision games! Seriously though, we can probably be certain these came from the same Taiwanese factory as 2600 pirates. I figured that was clear.

 

It would surprise me if these were the primary carts for any system. It's one thing to pirate things and have poor design, but to try to launch a console or clone based on this crap art and appropriated cart shells? Sounds perfectly China.

Edited November 29, 2016 by ianoid

[alex_79]

So, are the shells the same size as 2600 ones?

Those posted on the racketboy forum apparently are not:

Came across these today and not sure what they are.
They are a bit wider than an atari cartridge.
Im just starting collecting video games, do I want these?

Edited November 29, 2016 by alex_79

[ianoid]

Yes, the shells are identical to 2600 carts, aside from the wider board.

 

 

So, are the shells the same size as 2600 ones?

Those posted on the racketboy forum apparently are not:

[+stupus]

Could they be pirate SMS games?

Zemina made carts similar to this size or like for Samsung gam*boy.....

 

Ian can you verify if the pins are identical to SMS or even fit in a sms?

 

And like I said it's supposedly documented that bit corp made pirate sms systems and games....I just can't find any pics or model info etc...

[carlsson]

In that case, would not Zemina make cartridges matching the Japanese Master System, which has a 2x22 pin connector like the SG-1000? Only the European and US Master System have the 2x25 pin connector, as far as I know. But certainly the Koreans could distance themselves from the Japanese and make pirate carts for the US market.

 

Here is a list of Korean games, no matches:

http://www.smspower.org/forums/7888-SegaMasterSystemKoreanGamesList

Edited November 30, 2016 by carlsson

[Andromeda Stardust]

That artwork is worth buying the game. It's not bad, but so cheesy, it could be a fitting alternate cover for Oktoberfest the video game (and yes, IT EXIST)

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/401139044383

Okay I bite. Total 100% unadulterated impulse buy. The beer made me do it!

 

Is it any good? Otherwise I may just keep it sealed...

 

EDIT: Okay definitely not opening this. The cover art is infinitely better than the included games...

[alex_79]

Yes, the shells are identical to 2600 carts, aside from the wider board.

 

Could they be pirate SMS games?

Zemina made carts similar to this size or like for Samsung gam*boy.....

 

 

In that case, would not Zemina make cartridges matching the Japanese Master System, which has a 2x22 pin connector like the SG-1000? Only the European and US Master System have the 2x25 pin connector, as far as I know. But certainly the Koreans could distance themselves from the Japanese and make pirate carts for the US market.

 

Yeah, I can't imagine they made the board compatible with an existing console while using a different shaped case.

Assuming that, by chance, the 2600 case with that 25x2 pin board would fit in a master system console, there would be gaps between the cart and the slot, requiring a careful allignement to plug the thing in. That's too cheap even for a taiwanese pirate company.

The cart shell dimensions must be the same as the console cart slot, which means there must be a still undocumented console (most probably clone hardware-wise of some system of the era) with the cart slot the same size as the atari 2600 but with a 25x2 connector. And since the carts are not phisically interchangeable because of the different shape, there's no point in replicating the pinout of the cloned console either.

The only requirement is that the hardware must not need more than 50 pins for the cartridge and the Arcadia 2001 meets this condition and seems a good candidate judging from the games' titles.

 

[carlsson]

I saw that user SeymorOnion about four years ago made some measurements of cartridge shells in order to make storage cases, I believe. This is what he came up with, posted on thecoverproject.net forums in multiple threads. I also cross-referenced with what Goobers over at forums.overclockers.com.au came up with six years ago. All measurements in mm. This should be the start of a more comprehensive list in an easily findable wiki article somewhere.

 

C64: 66x88 (Commodore)

Intellivision: 68x88 (Mattel), 68x95 (Imagic), 68x102 (Coleco)

Colecovision: 81x98 (Coleco), 81x108 (Epyx)

Atari 2600: 82x95 (Apollo), 82x98 (standard Atari/Activision), 82x107 (Coconuts/Telesys), 82x108 or 80x117 (both Imagic, conflicting data) etc in increasing length

Atari 5200: 114x104-105 (Atari/Activision), 114x108 (Miner 2049er), 114x113 (Wizard of Wor)

Atari 7800: 82x98

Atari Jaguar: 107x89

SMS: 108x70

Genesis/Megadrive: 108x68 (Sega), 100x75 (Codemasters), 96x88 (EA), 108x100 (Game Genie), 108x107 (Virtua Racing)

Famicom: 108x69

SFC: 128x87

NES: 118-119x133

N64: 114x75

 

User digress posted in February 2015 some pics comparing a Colecovision and a SG-1000 cartridge. The SG-1000 with its 2x22 pins is slightly wider and quite a bit taller than the Colecovision, which in its turn is nearly identical to the Atari 2600 in overall size. Thus the mystery carts squeeze in 25 pins on a 67 mm PCB in a 82 mm wide shell

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/234959-anyone-have-a-sega-sg-1000-and-a-colecovision/

 

What strikes me is that among the above systems, the Genesis is the only one to vary significantly in cartridge width as you already know. As long as you mate the cartridge with the connector, a smaller cartridge than the slot allows indeed works in that case, although I agree that a difference of 108-96 (Genesis - EA) = 12 mm is less than a difference of 108-82 (SMS - 2600) = 26 mm would be.

[alex_79]

Here there are some more measurements for the 1292 APVS and compatible consoles:
http://www.classic-consoles-center.at/forum/interton/interton-cartridge-guide

I agree that collecting info on cartridge dimensions and pinout in a wiki would be an interesting project.

[carlsson]

Great! Those 1292 measurements are height x width, while the ones I posted are width x height, just in case someone gets confused. None of those are 82 mm wide like the 2600 and these mystery cartridges, which also matches the thread on Racketboy stating those cartridges were a bit wider (supposedly 90 mm) than the 2600 ones (82 mm).

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

 

 

Yeah, I can't imagine they made the board compatible with an existing console while using a different shaped case.

Assuming that, by chance, the 2600 case with that 25x2 pin board would fit in a master system console, there would be gaps between the cart and the slot, requiring a careful allignement to plug the thing in. That's too cheap even for a taiwanese pirate company.

The cart shell dimensions must be the same as the console cart slot, which means there must be a still undocumented console (most probably clone hardware-wise of some system of the era) with the cart slot the same size as the atari 2600 but with a 25x2 connector. And since the carts are not phisically interchangeable because of the different shape, there's no point in replicating the pinout of the cloned console either.

The only requirement is that the hardware must not need more than 50 pins for the cartridge and the Arcadia 2001 meets this condition and seems a good candidate judging from the games' titles.

 

SMS carts are thinner than 2600 carts so that would not fit in a Sega Master System without removing the shell on either the console or the cart. SMS and Famicom carts are almost the same dimensions of a cased audio cassette tape, and in fact in Japan the Famicom carts were called "cassettes."

 

And I would not recommend plugging any unknown cart without at the very least tracing some of the pins to make sure the grounds and the VCC signals are in the appropriate places. I imagine you could blow the cart or the hardware by plugging it into an incompatible slot.

 

For instance, did you know the SMS and N64 game carts have almost the same connector shape and size? The SMS board is thicker but you could technically force the cartridge into an N64 game console. I would not want to be around for whatever happens when you try to turn it on though.

[icemanxp300]

Has OP not tried playing these on different systems? I would be popping these bad boys in all the systems until they fired up lol.

[+frankodragon]

The MSX also has a 50 pin (25 on each side) configuration.

 

[carlsson]

Yes, both MSX and US/EU SMS have been candidates from the beginning. The MSX cartridges are as wide and thick as the SMS/Famicom ones, so the same caveat about cartridges possibly being too thick would apply. Also MSX never was exclusive to one manufacturer, meaning that just about everyone including Zemina and other pirate manufacturers, had no problems sourcing proper MSX style cartridge shells. Of course if this Taiwanese or other manufacturer had a major surplus of unused 2600 shells, it could've been a reason to stuff games inside those instead of ordering new shells, but it doesn't seem extremely likely IMHO.

Edited December 1, 2016 by carlsson

[ianoid]

Yes, both MSX and US/EU SMS have been candidates from the beginning. The MSX cartridges are as wide and thick as the SMS/Famicom ones, so the same caveat about cartridges possibly being too thick would apply. Also MSX never was exclusive to one manufacturer, meaning that just about everyone including Zemina and other pirate manufacturers, had no problems sourcing proper MSX style cartridge shells. Of course if this Taiwanese or other manufacturer had a major surplus of unused 2600 shells, it could've been a reason to stuff games inside those instead of ordering new shells, but it doesn't seem extremely likely IMHO.

 

Agree. The repurposing of the shell makes a classic system more likely than MSX or SMS IMHO.

 

I would try these out where I could but my stuff is not accessible. Sadly.

[carlsson]

If you have a multimeter available, at least you could check for 0 Ohm between pins, which I believe would be an indication of which pins are ground pins.