keepdreamin Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) Ultimately the market overall is moving toward having the console/computer generate a signal the current on-market-today display devices can handle. Dot addressable displays are here to stay for the foreseeable future. While games like Combat and Flag Capture and Basic Math may remain a favorite staple among classic gamers, messing around with connections and converters isn't. Today's gamer simply doesn't want the hassle. Using hardware that generates native (to the display) output is becoming the norm. Like it or not it is what is happening. And none of us are going to stop it. It has always been that way. The TV industry didn't make any concessions for gamers in the 70's and 80's and they aren't about to start now. Consoles have always chased after the in-vogue TV standard. I don't have any illusions otherwise, which is why I think that statement in the article at 4gamer mentioning it might be the last xrgb is a very real possibility. It just doesn't make sense for a large IC manufacturer to fire up a design which scales analog 480i all the way up to 4K in 2016. The processor the Framemeister uses was designed in 2009, where there was still enough concern for older content. Newer 4K's are rolling out without analog inputs, only HDMI. So the folks over at HD retrovision are really behind the times, their cables really should have dropped 10 years ago. As far as 4K sets only liking 4K, currently it seems some are actually quicker with 1080P content, others prefer native 4K, and others don't care. If down the road 1080P sources become a problem, there's always something like this which from what I've read handles its business instantaneously: https://www.hdfury.com/4k-linker-ultra-scaling-modes-in-progress/ Drop one of those after the Framemeister. Edited December 23, 2016 by keepdreamin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 This video best explains HD CRTs https://youtu.be/EH7xrFM9re4 HD CRTs do offer the best of both worlds, the smoothness of a CRT with high definition modes. But they only have componet inputs so you'll need a HDMI converter. And as much as I would love to have one in my bedroom, I am not lugging that big heavy thing up the steps. My HD CRT has HDMI so they do exist. Unfortunately mine is upstairs and I can't get it down into my game room as it weighs 245 pounds (its 36"). So I have to use a 20 inch PVM instead. I considered pulling the trigger on a Framemeister before, but the cost vs other solutions was too high. I had a friend bring his over once (a mini I think) and it looked absolutely terrible on my older LCD. My little 20" PVM with a scart adapter blew it away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 My HD CRT has HDMI so they do exist. Unfortunately mine is upstairs and I can't get it down into my game room as it weighs 245 pounds (its 36"). So I have to use a 20 inch PVM instead. Find a friend with an appliance dolly, strap it to it, and wheel it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratwurst Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 My HD CRT has HDMI so they do exist. Unfortunately mine is upstairs and I can't get it down into my game room as it weighs 245 pounds (its 36"). So I have to use a 20 inch PVM instead. I considered pulling the trigger on a Framemeister before, but the cost vs other solutions was too high. I had a friend bring his over once (a mini I think) and it looked absolutely terrible on my older LCD. My little 20" PVM with a scart adapter blew it away. What sort of resolution was your LCD display? I've seen a mini-xrgb with RGB modded NES on a 1080p set and it looked 'too good', almost emulator-like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBrian Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I think it was a 720p set and playing a N64 and a Snes . I have seen a Coleco and Nes using the mini on a 1080p set and it looked great . I love the scanline feature also . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 What sort of resolution was your LCD display? I've seen a mini-xrgb with RGB modded NES on a 1080p set and it looked 'too good', almost emulator-like. I believe it was an N64 on my 1080i TV (it doesn't do 1080p) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) If you're feeding the Framemeister composite, that's like owning a turbo'd high compression sports car and dumping in regular. Edited December 23, 2016 by keepdreamin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kikenovic Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I generally do my old school gaming on a CRT, but I am thinking of grabbing a Framemeister in the next couple months. I want to be future proofed given that CRTs are no longer produced and HDMI looks like it's going to be around for a while; given modern tvs are cutting even the component jacks it seems like a decent pickup. ^^^^^^ That. For those who went the CRT path, the future looks a bit uncertain. Either source an upscaler (older micomsoft units seem to be unaffected by price hikes for now) and related cables plus any required modifications or source more CRTs. Hoping there will be more projects like the OSSC that can some day match and surpass the XRGB. I didn't go the upscaler path but find it interesting to read about the different setups and modifications. Will be following this story closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillLoguidice Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 If you're feeding the Framemeister composite, that's like owning a turbo'd high compression sports car and dumping in regular. Exactly. S-VIDEO or better is glorious through the XRGB-mini. Composite is a poor source signal that can't really be processed to make it any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiLic0ne t0aD Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 This figures.. Just when I finally start slowly upgrading all my old consoles for HDTV, I was planning on getting a Framemeister very soon.. The damn thing gets discontinued. I was still holding off due to price but now I wish I'd have gotten one. Looks like I'll still be waiting a while.. Oh well. Guess I'll have to investigate other options but what terrible timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratwurst Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 This figures.. Just when I finally start slowly upgrading all my old consoles for HDTV, I was planning on getting a Framemeister very soon.. The damn thing gets discontinued. I was still holding off due to price but now I wish I'd have gotten one. Looks like I'll still be waiting a while.. Oh well. Guess I'll have to investigate other options but what terrible timing. It's still available for pre-order at solarisjapan.com. Actually priced better than it ever has been (Used to be $400, then $350, now it's $311) I would jump on it. Worst case scenario you WILL be able to unload it for what you paid for it, if not more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 I believe it was an N64 on my 1080i TV (it doesn't do 1080p) The N64 is one that doesn't handle upscaling very well. The system relies on that natural blur and the sharper look makes it easier to pick out the flaws in everything. 3D in general can be like this, but it's especially bad with the 64. If you are using the Framemeister for 2D stuff though and are feeding it RGB, games look phenomenal. Razor-sharp pixels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted December 24, 2016 Author Share Posted December 24, 2016 The N64 is one that doesn't handle upscaling very well. The system relies on that natural blur and the sharper look makes it easier to pick out the flaws in everything. 3D in general can be like this, but it's especially bad with the 64. If you are using the Framemeister for 2D stuff though and are feeding it RGB, games look phenomenal. Razor-sharp pixels. I've got a N64 hooked up to the framemeister through s-video, and it looks decent enough. It was a blurry on crts as well, so you can't really win with it. I'm not dedicated enough to the system to install that HDMI mod, and from what I've seen a lot of games make heavy use of dithering (even noticeable through svideo). I'll probably mod it with a RGB board at some point and call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I've got a N64 hooked up to the framemeister through s-video, and it looks decent enough. It was a blurry on crts as well, so you can't really win with it. I'm not dedicated enough to the system to install that HDMI mod, and from what I've seen a lot of games make heavy use of dithering (even noticeable through svideo). I'll probably mod it with a RGB board at some point and call it a day. I need to try my N64 through the Framemeister via S-Video. I did it with the Dreamcast a few weeks back and surprisingly the results weren't that bad. Not sharp enough to ruin 3D games, but not soft enough to have it look like someone took a dump on the screen. To be fair, the DC used dithering much less (if even at all, hard to think of examples off the top of my head), so it has the clear advantage there. Along the topic of dithering, in recent weeks I have been playing a lot of 32X and Saturn through the Framemeister, and the dithering really hurts several of these games when upscaled. On Saturn it's mostly in the polygon stuff, but on the 32X, like with a lot of Genesis games, it's all over the 2D stuff too. I'm also realizing there was a lot more dithering used in many of these games than I realized. Even on a CRT some dithering effects are obvious, but there are other examples that are not, like the health bars in the 32X MK2. It's kind of jarring when you're used to seeing a supposedly solid color bar, and you look up to find you're looking at a checkered board pattern instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 Well, it's not just the Framemeister. I've got a small CRT I use sometimes for Saturn light gun stuff, and I use a RGB to component transcoder. The dithering on car windows is easily visible on the tube set as well in Virtual Cop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 True, I could imagine it being pretty obvious via RGB, I forgot about that (I mainly had composite in mind with that comparison).I do have a PVM but haven't tried systems like the Saturn on it yet. I need to get around to doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I've got a N64 hooked up to the framemeister through s-video, and it looks decent enough. It was a blurry on crts as well, so you can't really win with it. Smearbegone! http://www.retrorgb.com/n64blur Well sort of Just heard about this the other day and just tried it on my RGB modded N64 with San Francisco Rush. This filter disable is going to be a real subjective thing, but trying it with one whole game so far - I like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Since Kevtris's idea for the Zimba 3000 is an FPGA based console of many consoles that can output hi-def through HDMI then could the discontinuation of the Framemeister make the Zimba 3000 more desirable and/or be an acceptable replacement for the Framemeister as well as many of the consoles that you would use with it? I mean, if it is basically many hi-def HDMI modded consoles in one then isn't it not just replacement hardware for the consoles but also for devices like the Framemeister? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Ahh the games stay digital up to the crystals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I mean, if it is basically many hi-def HDMI modded consoles in one then isn't it not just replacement hardware for the consoles but also for devices like the Framemeister? It depends on how many platforms it replicates and what the users' needs are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Since Kevtris's idea for the Zimba 3000 is an FPGA based console of many consoles that can output hi-def through HDMI then could the discontinuation of the Framemeister make the Zimba 3000 more desirable and/or be an acceptable replacement for the Framemeister as well as many of the consoles that you would use with it? I mean, if it is basically many hi-def HDMI modded consoles in one then isn't it not just replacement hardware for the consoles but also for devices like the Framemeister? That all depends on how much care and processing is taken in the final output stages. My feeling is I don't believe it will be a replacement for the framemeister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 That all depends on how much care and processing is taken in the final output stages. My feeling is I don't believe it will be a replacement for the framemeister. It's not really in the same class, not without a total new hardware revision. At which point it would be a totally different device. It's fast because there's no frame buffer, which means any oddball refresh (IE SNES) gets passed along to your TV. So you're at the mercy off your display if it works. The Framemeister can groom the odd signals for a nice vanilla HDMI standard. The OSSC's max output is a weird 720P (with 240p content only). So again you're at the mercy of your display. There's no audio HDMI integration, no s video or composite inputs. Deinterlacing isn't anywhere close to what the frameister does, again you can pass through and let your TV deal with it. OSSC is more of an alternative to the xrgb 2+3. But too be fair to the folks responsible for it, I don't think they ever said it was a Framemeister "replacement". It's consumers who are making baseless assumptions and stating that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Rearden Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Why are they selling for so much on Ebay? They are expecting to ship more in May. https://solarisjapan.com/products/xrgb-mini-framemeister-compact-up-scaler-unit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Well, because.. Ebay! And you can get it now. Ebay doesn't need to justify its high prices. It just happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 Why are they selling for so much on Ebay? They are expecting to ship more in May. https://solarisjapan.com/products/xrgb-mini-framemeister-compact-up-scaler-unit retro gamers aren't the most patient bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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