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keepdreamin

Framemeister production drawing to a close.

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Very glad I got my XRGB Mini in 2015; highly reccomend it. If you don't want to pay its high price but want a scaler box, you might want to follow the development of the OOSC, which was mentioned above. It's an open source project, so with some improvements, someday it could surpass the Framemeister in options and quality. Sad that it is being discontinued, Micomsoft did a really great job with it.

 

As for the above CRT talk (disclaimer I haven't read all of it), I don't reccomend an HDCRT. It has digital processing, so there will be lag in SD games. As for HD games, a typical modern television with fixed pixels will be far better and I'm sure you already have one. For some comparison photos, I reccomend My Life in Gaming's CRT video (same channel mentioned above). If you want RGB quality on a CRT, go for a PVM or other professional monitor. The only other options for even remotely close quality on a non- professional CRT would be a European CRT with a SCART input (some top of the consumer line old models are avalible for cheap overseas if you live in Europe) or decent results from a SCART to component box.

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I'm happy I already have my XRGB-mini. It's been indispensable for my particular setup(s) and situation. With that said, I would suspect that a new unit will be produced. I've love for something that does everything the XRGB-mini does, plus adds VGA input. That would make it perfect for me (along with it being backwards compatible with all XRGB-mini dongles and adapters - I've spent quite a bit of money on those alone).

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This video best explains HD CRTs

 

https://youtu.be/EH7xrFM9re4

 

HD CRTs do offer the best of both worlds, the smoothness of a CRT with high definition modes. But they only have componet inputs so you'll need a HDMI converter.

 

And as much as I would love to have one in my bedroom, I am not lugging that big heavy thing up the steps. :P

One of my HD CRT sets has HDMI.

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I'm surprised the retro gaming culture hasn't come up with it's own homegrown device as a cheaper option. I'm hoping that becomes a reality once the Framemeister disappears.

 

I have an older CRT for my retro setup, but it sucks and I'd love to upgrade it. It's a 25" Samsung, and it only has composite A/V in. No S-Video, no Component, etc. I've thought about getting another CRT (like a WEGA), but with new 32" smart TV's going for around $150 these days, they are tempting. I've also been looking at CRT HDTV's, but they have their own challenges.

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This video best explains HD CRTs

 

 

HD CRTs do offer the best of both worlds, the smoothness of a CRT with high definition modes. But they only have componet inputs so you'll need a HDMI converter.

 

And as much as I would love to have one in my bedroom, I am not lugging that big heavy thing up the steps. :P

 

That video explained absolutely nothing, other than off the charts hipsterism. Like listening to someone explain why they only listen to music on vinyl, because vinyl. More depth? Has he seen 4K sets with HDR?

 

People need to stop reading into the "CRT" part of HD CRT. Retro games DO NOT look like they do on analog sets. Although an HD tube isn't fixed pixel, the fine pitch of the screen means you aren't getting scanlines. Your games will look closer to how they do on a modern flat panel, then they do on an analog set. There's digital processing, so light guns won't work. Any HDMI content is going to look better on a modern fixed pixel flat panel.

 

So to recap HD-CRT's:

No advantage for retro gaming.

No advantage for HD gaming.

 

Also, why can't you folks understand bringing up CRT's in a thread about upscalers is completely off topic? :? I don't get why this is so hard to comprehend.

 

"So, I want to hook up my Jaguar to my new 4K set. How should I go about that?"

 

"Well... to do that you want to buy a HD CRT." :roll:

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Not sure how accurate google translate is, but this doesn't sound good:

 

http://www.4gamer.net/games/999/G999902/20161202002/

 

According to the microcomputer software, it is said that for the reason that production of major ICs is decided to end and there is no prospect of replacement, unfortunately there is no development plan for successor aircraft at the moment. Stakeholders also said that it may be the last XRGB.

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Also, why can't you folks understand bringing up CRT's in a thread about upscalers is completely off topic? :? I don't get why this is so hard to comprehend.

I agree that CRT is off-topic in this thread which is specifically about the framemeister end of production. I posted about it only because the subject was already brought up. I also agree with all you said about the HD-CRT.

 

Anyway, I don't think that mentioning CRT is off-topic when talking about upscalers in general, since many people are not aware of the drawbacks in using old consoles with digital TVs.

 

 

"So, I want to hook up my Jaguar to my new 4K set. How should I go about that?"

 

"Well... to do that you want to buy a HD CRT." :roll:

Of course, it doesn't make much sense if you put it in that way.

 

On the other hand, mentioning CRTs to compare advanatages and disadvantages of both solutions might be helpful to let people decide which one fits their needs best. People without more technical knowledge on the subject might think that it's just a question of adapting the video signal to the new technology and everythink will just continue to work like it did before. It doesn't.

 

You can find several posts here or elsewhere of people that wonder why their lightguns games don't work anymore, or why they suddenly sucks at playing "Kaboom!" on the 2600 with their new flat TV...

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Except that this thread is about the Framemeister production running out.

 

People that know the Framemeister probably know already about all of the issues of different solution, especially the ones that doesn't own one already since the Framemeister is a high ticket entry, means that many people have considered it then decided to stick to keeping a CRT TV.

People that doesn't not know the Framemeister probably won't look this thread or if they do, that's look elsewhere for infos. Video links have been posted.

 

I could go on and say that some Chinese LCD TV sellers sell TVs with US RF connection and SCART input (BurritoBeans have one) and that it's the middle ground solution but that's not the point of this topic.

Or I could tell people that shipping a 36cm TV from Europe cost about 75$ (not checked, probably a bit more) and they'll get SCART on all of them and make a little ludicrous business.

It's off topic.

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It's off topic.

 

I agree. That's what I said.

 

I was referring to bringing up CRTs in thread about upscalers in general in a retrogaming forum, not this thread specifically, where we both agree that's off-topic.

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Not sure how accurate google translate is, but this doesn't sound good:

 

http://www.4gamer.net/games/999/G999902/20161202002/

 

According to the microcomputer software, it is said that for the reason that production of major ICs is decided to end and there is no prospect of replacement, unfortunately there is no development plan for successor aircraft at the moment. Stakeholders also said that it may be the last XRGB.

I had a friend who is rather fluent in the language take a look at that, and he said that's basically the gist of it. No more ICs, Micomsoft is doing one last production order of ICs in February that should, they expect, last through 2017. They don't know of any replacement ICs so yeah, no successor announcement, could be the end of the XRGB line.

 

Personally I don't expect their production run to last through the end of the year, but if you order in the next couple months I assume you'll be all right for getting one.

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They don't know of any replacement ICs so yeah, no successor announcement, could be the end of the XRGB line.

 

I wonder if that coincides with major TV manufacturers dropping analog inputs all together. Newer (high quality) scaler processors probably aren't being designed with analog conversion/upscaling in mind. I imagine they're focusing on older HD resolutions to 4K instead.

 

Micomsoft probably can't find something that would fit their application, and although the Framemeister has sold well, it's still too niche for them to dump resources in developing their own hardware vs using off the shelf components.

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I wonder if ASIC/FPGA could replicate this IC. I guess not, else they would study that possibility. Heck, Amstrad replaced their GAte Array chips in the CPC by ASICS chips in the late runs of the CPC so it's possible. But maybe this chip does specific operations that FPGA can't replicate, especially if it deal with analog signals.

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Is it theoretically possible for them to make one for cheaper and/or for the north American market? I don't want to blow $320 on something with a Japanese menu.

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Is it theoretically possible for them to make one for cheaper and/or for the north American market? I don't want to blow $320 on something with a Japanese menu.

 

It has full English menus. The only catch is the power, which is trivial to solve with a cheap USB to barrel connector, like the type used to power a Sony PSP. I plug mine into a powered USB hub because I can plug other stuff in at the same time, but you can use any USB power adapter.

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Is it theoretically possible for them to make one for cheaper and/or for the north American market? I don't want to blow $320 on something with a Japanese menu.

 

The thing has had English as a menu option for a few years now, they even offer English firmware updates so when you update, the menu is automatically in English. As for it being cheaper: Seeing how the main off the shelf IC they were using is being discontinued with no replacement available... no, probably not possible.

 

 

 

It has full English menus. The only catch is the power, which is trivial to solve with a cheap USB to barrel connector, like the type used to power a Sony PSP. I plug mine into a powered USB hub because I can plug other stuff in at the same time, but you can use any USB power adapter.

 

The power isn't an issue either, they've been shipping it with a universal AC adapter for a few years as well.

Edited by keepdreamin
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I'm sorry to see this go and hope an equivalent device is developed by someone.

 

As for me, I don't currently have a need for one and the price was so high I could never justify buying one just in case I'd need it someday.

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Not sad. Could never afford it. Getting a Sony professional class CRT used has always been more attractive.

 

Awesomely relevant, thanks for checking in! :thumbsup:

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Awesomely relevant, thanks for checking in! :thumbsup:

 

I'd say adding my own view that the framemeister did not provide enough value compared to alternatives is a valid data point. You don't have to comment on the value of my opinion.

 

You want better responses don't resort to sarcasm and disrespect.

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I'd say adding my own view that the framemeister did not provide enough value compared to alternatives is a valid data point. You don't have to comment on the value of my opinion.

 

You want better responses don't resort to sarcasm and disrespect.

 

I guess you missed the whole part about people knowing about CRTs and how that's irrelevant.

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I guess you missed the whole part about people knowing about CRTs and how that's irrelevant.

 

Not for me. And you're still using disrespect to respond. I make games for the 2600 and Sega Genesis. No device I've seen does justice to phosphor effects.

 

But, please. Be rude again.

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Not for me. And you're still using disrespect to respond. I make games for the 2600 and Sega Genesis. No device I've seen does justice to phosphor effects.

 

But, please. Be rude again.

 

you're the guy responding with off topic subject matter, how am I being the rude one? We literally just established a few posts before you popped in here, that yes, people are aware of CRTs. That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

 

You might as well just chime in with "That's why I stick with emulators" or "buy a retron".

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you're the guy responding with off topic subject matter, how am I being the rude one? We literally just established a few posts before you popped in here, that yes, people are aware of CRTs. That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

 

You might as well just chime in with "That's why I stick with emulators" or "buy a retron".

 

I made my point. You're at the keyboard with having an Internet fight. *shrugs*

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I made my point. You're at the keyboard with having an Internet fight. *shrugs*

 

You said you develop 2600 and genesis games. What if in one of your threads discussing said games, someone decided to pop in and say "I never saw the value in the 2600, that's why I develop for the PS2"

 

Would you consider that constructive information in any way?

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I think this thread has run its course. If you want a framemeister, solaris is taking preorders for shipment next year.

 

I guess it's inevitable that any thread regarding upscalers will eventually turn into a CRT enthusiast thread. So, I guess feel free to post up Trinitron model #'s or whatever.

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