calimero Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I forgot how precious was to swap floppies between PC and ST without hassle! Regarding "WordPerfect cause that first caused my defection to the "dark side" of PC's" - did you use Signum, ProText (german, not english!!), STeve... for text, or more precise: DATA processing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimchipenguin Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 The ST was anything but a games machine in Germany and lots of companies used Ataris, sometimes way into the 90's. Even the European equivalent of the NASA (the ESA) used Ataris. Still, some companies regarded Atari as a toy (or: anything non-PC) and there various Atari companies that made a business out of "disguising" Atari STs to make them more appealing to customers in the industry. I did most of my word processing with Atari Works and my computer science homework with Pure Pascal. Signum! was very popular among linguistics students. The point where I switched was the Internet. The Atari web browsers just couldn't compete with Netscape and Internet Explorer and web browsing on a Falcon in 256 colour mode was just too slow. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calimero Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 and there various Atari companies that made a business out of "disguising" Atari STs to make them more appealing to customers in the industry. I did most of my word processing with Atari Works and my computer science homework with Pure Pascal. Signum! was very popular among linguistics students. How do you mean "disguising"? Like that version of ST for industries? (I forgot its name but it is ST in standard rack case for CNC machines...) And regarding Signum! and "linguistics students" - I read somewhere on german website that some German government agency used ST because of easy possibility to work with different charactersets and right to left writings, until UTF standard got widespread, ST was number one choice. --- offtopic --- @kimchipenguin is it still possible to order ST-Computer? I would like to buy few issues if you still have them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimchipenguin Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 How do you mean "disguising"? Like that version of ST for industries? (I forgot its name but it is ST in standard rack case for CNC machines...) And regarding Signum! and "linguistics students" - I read somewhere on german website that some German government agency used ST because of easy possibility to work with different charactersets and right to left writings, until UTF standard got widespread, ST was number one choice. --- offtopic --- @kimchipenguin is it still possible to order ST-Computer? I would like to buy few issues if you still have them? Disguised to the point that the customer didn't know that it was an Atari inside. Here are some examples: http://stcarchiv.de/stm1988/10/profi-st There was also a business card printing machine with a 1040ST inside, but I haven't put that article online, yet. IBP's 190ST series is far more common: http://stcarchiv.de/stc1988/11/ibp-190-st ST-Computer magazines are printed in batches of ten based on preorders, so I don't have a pile of magazines to sell, unfortunately. I'm still planning to make back issues available through print-on-demand, which would be more expensive obviously. You can however pre-order the next two issues. The next one is focussed on GFA-Basic and an obscure German disk magazine (Atari Joy) that hasn't been archived yet and the one after that takes a look at "high-end stuff" - hardware and software that goes beyond the standard Atari ST/TT/Falcon. The latter issue is still open for article submissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calimero Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Thanks for links! I'll take some time to read them! Just point me how to make preorder or how to declare wish for older issue? 25e. is not much for three issue bunch (btw I am from Serbia). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMaddog Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I forgot how precious was to swap floppies between PC and ST without hassle! Regarding "WordPerfect cause that first caused my defection to the "dark side" of PC's" - did you use Signum, ProText (german, not english!!), STeve... for text, or more precise: DATA processing. Actually I did use ProText (English version) on my ST, and it was a lot closer to using Word Perfect because it was mouse based in spite of not using the GEM interface. I was in college (or first two years of University) so I did my drafts in school on PC's and took them home to finish up on my STe, both term papers and programming code. As you can see, being able to use PC formatted disks on both platforms was a necessity... Later on I got a copy of 1st Word and used that for typing my fanfics during that phase of my life. I got both word processors from coverdisks since I couldn't afford expensive software imported from Europe, so no Signum or Papyrus for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calimero Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Just small note: english and german ProText are completely different programs with same name. Yes, price of software can be a problem... do you remember how much did you pay for WordPerfect on PC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 The ST was anything but a games machine in Germany and lots of companies used Ataris, sometimes way into the 90's. Even the European equivalent of the NASA (the ESA) used Ataris. Still, some companies regarded Atari as a toy (or: anything non-PC) and there various Atari companies that made a business out of "disguising" Atari STs to make them more appealing to customers in the industry. I did most of my word processing with Atari Works and my computer science homework with Pure Pascal. Signum! was very popular among linguistics students. The point where I switched was the Internet. The Atari web browsers just couldn't compete with Netscape and Internet Explorer and web browsing on a Falcon in 256 colour mode was just too slow. Yes, Not surprising. I recall for a time that all the good software for the ST was coming from Germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+slx Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 1981 Odyssey 2 to play better games than our Pong clone offered 1982: Atari 800, I wanted a computer and better games than the O2 could offer. Wanted an Atari because I liked my friend's VCS games and - of course - wanted Star Raiders. 1986/7: Atari Mega ST2 with external 40MB HD - Word Processing for University, the SM124 monitor and because I didn't know the Amiga was the real "next" Atari about 1991/2: a used TT030 upgraded with an ET4000 graphics card to have more power than the Mega ST and be able to use a 17" monitor (1024x768 hi-res rocked!!!!). Lots of FidoNet and sending Faxes! (I considered Macs but they were more expensive, would have required new software - with no "swap friends" in sight. I didn't really consider a PC as I knew them from office use and found them to be severely lacking in appeal. I didn't even play that much at the time.) Ataris were kept up to date with a hand-soldered memory upgrade for the Mega ST, an internal IDE HD/TOS 2.06 board, a Syquest 44, then 88, a TT RAM upgrade to a whopping 16 MB, NeoDesk, later MagiC, etc. 1996: Pentium 133 PC, self-built from parts - mainly to get onto the internet, as surfing with CAB and SLIP/PPP on the TT had proved to be possible but no fun and there was no good mail program. It was SCSI based to allow re-use of the valuable 2GB HD from my TT and enjoy better performance. Spent way too much money on "best components" according to various tests. Dimly remember soldering a wire to the processor socket to allow a mid-life upgrade to a Cyrix chip, ever larger HDs, etc. 2002: built an Athlon-based system as the old PC was too slow to open JPEGs from our new 3,2 MegaPixel digital camera. Again bought "best" components available and ended up never using half their capability. 2007: bought white Macbook for my wife and toyed around with it which led to 2008: 24" iMac as 2002 PC was uncomfortably slow opening pics of new 10 MP DSLR plus me having become tired of constantly fiddling around with PC to improve performance, etc. Found MacOS to be mostly better than Windows XP and enjoyed consistent keyboard shortcuts. iMac still in use as of now as main JPEG archive machine but getting uncomfortably slow after 6 main OS updates and years of trying various software, etc. 2009: added a Macbook to be able to use Mac software on the go. Added two Mac minis for TV and kids' use as well as a Windows 10 i7 laptop (used by kids for gaming). late 2016: impulse purchase of a 15" Mac Notebook as the 2009 Macbook was getting old, battered and slowed down by years of upgrades and I feared not getting a "real keyboard" Macbook if I waited any longer (tried the new touchbar in a shop and found it less than appealing). I am not as fond of MacOS as I was in 2008 as I find Apple's dropping of Aperture and "dumbing down" of software to appeal to iOS users very disappointing. Experience with Windows 8.x on a company Surface Pro and Windows 10 on kids laptop still leave MacOS as "the lesser evil" regarding usability. Resolved to try to use new Macbook as "main machine" for photo/video edititng with extra screen and external drive and postpone iMac replacement until Macbook is written off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMaddog Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Just small note: english and german ProText are completely different programs with same name. Yes, price of software can be a problem... do you remember how much did you pay for WordPerfect on PC? To clarify what I said, it was the university that had WordPerfect on PC's in their computer labs so I never bought a copy. I never owned a PC at that point... And my copy of ProText came on a ST Format coverdisk which was how I got I most of my software for the Atari. I'm curious, but how was the German version different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calimero Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 To clarify what I said, it was the university that had WordPerfect on PC's in their computer labs so I never bought a copy. I never owned a PC at that point... And my copy of ProText came on a ST Format coverdisk which was how I got I most of my software for the Atari. I'm curious, but how was the German version different? English: http://www.atariuptodate.de/en/267/protext German: http://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/index.php?folder=/TEXT#PROTEXT.FTP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BydoEmpire Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I was a c64/Amiga kid up through high school school, so while it's not Atari it's pretty much the same story. I got a PC when I went to college in 1991- it was more convenient for the coursework. We used Unix a lot, but also Borland compilers and other stuff that was directly on PC. It also helped when I was getting a job out of school that I had written some demo games for PC. It would have been hard to demo that stuff on an Atari or Commodore machine. I embraced the VGA/Soundblaster era, though, there were a lot of great games at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Ain't that the truth! Ink jet or laser anymore. At least with ink jet printers, you don't feel as bad since the print heads get funky after a while - if not easy to replace anyway. Then again, the imaging drum on a laser goes bad before long too. Ever since we've evolved beyond the dot-matrix, home printing has been increased in tedium. And especially now with how companies micromanage every last pico-litre of ink via subscription services and cheap-o hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Laptops, better said notebooks aren't know because being upgradeable. Usually you can only expand RAM, put faster CPU. What is to worry with nowadays desktop computers is fact that HW compatibility is much better than SW one. It means that you can put some older card in your brandnew motherboard, but OS and drivers will not support it. And that is actually intentional. They just want to force you to get new card, even when old one could perfectly do the job. It happens with every new Windows version. No older Radeon drivers for Win10 - so throw away your 7+ years old card, which perfectly works with full HD ? Fortunately it can be solved with little effort in some cases. But overall it is as with everything this days: short lifetime cars, refrigerators. etc. 2 years later, now, and I'd say the hardware is actually less compatible. I also (rightly or wrongly) consider the drivers as part of the card. If the card doesn't work it plain old doesn't work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman000 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 From a professional point of view, the PC produced attractive text and ANSI displays, and could do so throughout a wide range of configurations. 16-bit machines of the same era were focusing on graphics - perhaps too much before their time too. This reason, the prowess at handling text, was cited to me many many times as the reason to move away from Atari/Commodore. An offshoot of that was that people could take their work home with them for either more productivity or telecommuting. It is my belief, but I don't know with 100% certainty, it cost the PC less cycles to put a character of text on the screen than any of the graphically oriented 16-bit machines. --- I tried to own many of the 8/16 bit rigs back in the day, from KIM-1 and RCA COSMAC VIP through the 486 timeframe. I succeeded rather well with the 8-bit stuff. And got an Amiga too. But I never could afford a MAC. And by the time the ST came on my radar I was pretty much done and done with going through computers. I needed to standardize big time. Most of the times I switched systems because of improved graphics and games But as I got older, architecture, storage, raw speed, and software pervasiveness became more important. And all my recollections told me going with Atari/Commodore wouldn't benefit me. Every time a new level of performance was "invented" by the industry I'd have to swap machines. With the PC, and Apple II and MAC to lesser extents, I could upgrade piecemeal. When I got my 486 it was a stripper machine, multi i/o board and video board, 1 hdd, 1 floppy. That was it. When I retired it I had added 2 more hdd, another floppy, cd-rom, soundcard with fm/pcm/wave/samples, 2nd parallel port, memory expansion board, modem, game card, digitizer, extra cache memory, and some other things. All of which had been acquired over the years when the price looked right. While the 16-bit A/C machines may have outperformed the PC in select areas, their infrastructure and support was not stable or even available. But with the PC I could walk to 3 different computer stores (wow what times!) and get help on almost any issue. Didn't the Mega ST gain some traction with desktop publishing folks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Went from 2600 to Atari 8-bit because I wanted a computer and better graphics. Went from 8-bit to STe because I wanted a more powerful computer. The STe did a good job at getting me through college, since its disks were compatible with PCs, I could do work on my ST, print it in the computer lab from a PC. But I kept debating whether I should move to PC. But when I first saw Doom was when I decided that yes, it's time to move to a PC. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DarkLord Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Didn't the Mega ST gain some traction with desktop publishing folks? Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellis Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I went from a 4MB Atari STe to a NeXT '040 Cube (25MHz) in the early 1990s. That thing was awesome. And here I am years later, still writing Objective C applications (pioneered on the NeXT), but in this case for a derivative system that rests in my pocket. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I wanted to give my money to M$! For me it was easier just to get a PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMaddog Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Didn't the Mega ST gain some traction with desktop publishing folks? Yeah, the ST did see lots of DTP programs mostly from Germany (ie Calumus). Their laser printer was far cheaper because it used the ST as it's "brains" instead of including a computer inside. Oh yeah, there was also a Mac emulator for running more DTP programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Yeah, the ST did see lots of DTP programs mostly from Germany (ie Calumus). Their laser printer was far cheaper because it used the ST as it's "brains" instead of including a computer inside. Oh yeah, there was also a Mac emulator for running more DTP programs. Calamus is one of the few programs still being updated for the ST. Though it basically requires either a graphics card or a boosted Falcon (with the BlowUp software/hardware at least (800x600x256 minimum resolution) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 years later, now, and I'd say the hardware is actually less compatible. I also (rightly or wrongly) consider the drivers as part of the card. If the card doesn't work it plain old doesn't work. If card works on brandnew motherboard under Windows XP 32-bit v. then it works. But by your logic if card does not work in Win 10, just because no driver for it, then it works not. I can assure you that there is even simpler case to judge wrongly: electric power is part of card, so if you don't power on card, it works not . Ergo: you may say one moment that card works not, and other moment that it works More seriously: I see that PCI slot is still part of many new motherboards. Actually, that slot can be considered as pretty much successful - over 20 years in wide usage. There are even PCI slot expansions for some Ataris, like for Falcon. Present in MACs too, regularly . And what is biggest problem with PCI slots on Falcon: writing driver SW for some card. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilaskey Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I managed to work my way from: 2600->400->800->130XE->STM->Mega STe->Falcon/Jaguar I bailed when Atari folded. I was doing reviews/writing for Atari magazines as well as my day job as a programmer. When everything died, I looked at the early multimedia PCs and decided it was time to jump. I got a 486SX with CDROM, sound card etc and it was like the future had arrived with Encarta and other such things. I then wrote for PC magazines for some years until the web killed the market for paper mags. The last magazine I worked for became an AOL based one before going standalone as a website but with no investment, it eventually became a non runner so we shut shop. Still on PCs. I use emulators for my old Atari 8bit stuff. Apart from Word Up (massively underrated) and the Lattice C Compiler I don't miss the ST side too much if I'm honest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimchipenguin Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Didn't the Mega ST gain some traction with desktop publishing folks? Burda, one of the biggest publishers in Germany, did the layout on TTs well into the 90's. They were even using custom keyboards. Lots of smaller publishers used the Mega ST and later TT, especially in Germany. German ST-Magazin introduced a magazine within a magazine that was all about DTP and featured a list of printing companies you could use to professionally print your Calamus documents. Of course, if you had some spare money, you could buy a Linotype and connect it to your Atari. Back on topic: I switched from C64 to ST because the Amiga was too expensive Didn't regret it though. Then later I switched (but still kept) my Falcon for a PC because of the Internet. In 2004 I bought my first Mac because I started writing for a Mac magazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozar Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I was an 800 owner and then a 1040ST->Mega 2ST owner. I held out for a long time until I needed a real good VT100 emulator for connecting to work remotely. The ST didnt have any good programs in the early 90's so I got my first 386SX PC and ProComm Plus. Of course when Wolfenstein and then Doom hit the streets going back was out of the question Uniterm is your friend, it got me through my last few years of college, connection to CMS and VMS. :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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