Will you support the new Atari Console

[Mr SQL]

A lot of homebrews run excellently on the new Atari 2600 consoles emulator core.

 

I see some programmers writing versions of their games to be compatible with the 2600 and I think it's a great idea - I've been working on a version of Virtual World BASIC that will be compatible.

 

I'm curious what other programmers are planning to support the new VCS console, and why or why not.

 

imo despite not matching Stella the emulation is quite good and I definitely want to support it because it has the distinction of being a genuine Atari console and an open platform once again!

 

[Keatah]

New atari console?

[Shawn]

I'm not aware of any new 2600 console. Please elaborate?

[adamchevy]

New Atari Console! I can't wait for all of the new 8bit goodness! If your messing with me I'm going to be mad, then sad, and then I'll come hunt you down.

[Mr SQL]

I'm not aware of any new 2600 console. Please elaborate?

 

New atari console?

 

The new Atari Flashback Portable - when you power the unit on the first thing displayed is Atari Flashback Console

 

Seems accurate, it's got a mini cartridge port that takes universal SD cartridges instead of utilizing a proprietary cartridge format. That really makes it an open system to develop for, now any software shop with one of these can burn tiny Atari carts in-house:

 

I wonder if Al is intending to support the new console with mini cartridges in the Atari age store in time for the Holidays? That could be the reason the store's been closed!

[Keatah]

The flashback really isn't an Atari console. It's a moderately accurate emulator called Flashback. In the case of this flashback portable, absolutely not. If I was a pro-level programmer I would only support the original hardware. It is up to the emulator authors to do due diligence and make their gig work with the standard hardware.

 

And someone has already cornered the market on ebay. They're selling roms from Atari Age on SD cards for the portable. The last one sold, with a console, went for like $200.00

[Mr SQL]

The flashback really isn't an Atari console. It's a moderately accurate emulator called Flashback. In the case of this flashback portable, absolutely not. If I was a pro-level programmer I would only support the original hardware. It is up to the emulator authors to do due diligence and make their gig work with the standard hardware.

 

And someone has already cornered the market on ebay. They're selling roms from Atari Age on SD cards for the portable. The last one sold, with a console, went for like $200.00

 

Great example, and that vendor is doubtless just selling a simple ROM collection because an SD now card becomes a tiny multi-cart like the Harmony that he's preloaded with ROM collections from AtariAge.

 

It would be difficult for him to sell ROM's that haven't been released publically though - that's a market for the software authors and indie game companies who write games for the 2600.

 

And good point about the emulator core but it's still an official Atari 2600 and the release is a mainstream incarnation of the console that doesn't have to be modded to take carts and can run more games than the FB2 that was based on real hardware could run.

 

imo a good parallel is the 2600 Junior consoles that were released with flawed TIA's that can't play Kool-aide man but are still real Atari 2600 consoles. Now I wonder if the portable can play that...

[gauauu]

Nah, I'm not interested in testing against every emulator or device out there. If it works on the 2600, it's good enough for me. Ok, realistically, I want it to work on Stella as well.

 

Related Side story:

For my Gameboy Advance version of Anguna, it worked on hardware as well as most of the popular emulators out there. There was one emulator that I found out that it didn't work on. The emulator author did some debugging, and found two things:

- There was a bug during initialization in my game that, by some coincidence of the hardware, never exposed itself on the real thing. Most emulators were accurate enough that my bug never showed in them either.

- His emulator wasn't accurate enough, and my bug appeared.

 

Despite it being a bug in my code, it was his emulator that needed to be fixed. My game worked on hardware despite "doing it wrong", so it was his problem to fix, not mine. (Although I was a bit chagrined to learn that it was all caused by me doing something incorrectly!)

[Keatah]

Kinda reminds me when I took two courses in Metrology. What *is* the standard that we all reference back to? When it comes to the VCS, what is the standard? Which console? Which variant? Which revision?

[Shawn]

 

 

The new Atari Flashback Portable - when you power the unit on the first thing displayed is Atari Flashback Console

 

Seems accurate, it's got a mini cartridge port that takes universal SD cartridges instead of utilizing a proprietary cartridge format. That really makes it an open system to develop for, now any software shop with one of these can burn tiny Atari carts in-house:

Atari 2600 Cart burner.jpg

 

I wonder if Al is intending to support the new console with mini cartridges in the Atari age store in time for the Holidays? That could be the reason the store's been closed!

 

I highly doubt optimizing a homebrew for a half broken emu is something running through any programmers head when writing a game I'm sorry to say.

[+KaeruYojimbo]

I'd rather see them improve the emulation for the next release than see programmers go out of their way to make games work with it as is.

[Keatah]

Yes. I don't want authors to be encouraging sloppy emulator programming. Especially paid-for emulators. Those emulators are expected to be right.

[Mr SQL]

All excellent points and great parallel from gauauu on the emulator author making the corrections.

 

However Keatah made a salient observation of what the standard should be that we are coding for and I think that is the fundamental question to consider. imo this emulator gets special points that Stella does not get despite having better emulation.

 

This emu is an official mass produced in millions Atari 2600, a current mass production console platform. That gives it serious clout and momentum on the scene and the emulation is close enough that it's realistically within reach to make our classic code compatible with the new console.

[Shawn]

All excellent points and great parallel from gauauu on the emulator author making the corrections.

 

However Keatah made a salient observation of what the standard should be that we are coding for and I think that is the fundamental question to consider. imo this emulator gets special points that Stella does not get despite having better emulation.

 

This emu is an official mass produced in millions Atari 2600, a current mass production console platform. That gives it serious clout and momentum on the scene and the emulation is close enough that it's realistically within reach to make our classic code compatible with the new console.

 

nope.

[Keatah]

Unfortunately I see programmers making concessions so their games work. And the purists aren't going to stop it no matter how hard they kick and scream. Personally I don't want it to happen, but.. Soon there will be more of these trinkets and gadgets sold than the original consoles. And I suspect the tipping point will come much earlier. Sales probably only have to reach a third of the original vintage hardware for programmers to consider two versions of their games.

 

I also see (to my extreme happiness) more and cheaper generic processors delivering retrogaming to public at large via emulation. In a small way I like to imagine the emulator software itself as kind of firmware or even microcode in this new breed of product. And that's a dirt cheap way of doing things. Just what companies like. And that's also why we end up with half-assed implementations like the flashbacks.

 

Sounds contradictory? It isn't. We're unlikely to see new 6507s, TIAs, or RIOTs being made. And being made in a form that fits the modern electronics' lifestyle. So we don't worry about that. Sweep it all away. Instead we teach modern electronics how to run old games. And emulators are the curriculum.

[enthusi]

In my opinion fixing things for emulators is the worst you can do, really.

You scatter all kinds of versions of games throughout the internet and emulators will never improve thus.

If it is a 2600 game and runs on a(ny) real 2600, then it is perfect. All other hard- or software should adapt. Seriously.

[GroovyBee]

Only if AtGames provides the tools to unlock its "Frogger mode" capabilities

[Keatah]

In my opinion fixing things for emulators is the worst you can do, really.

You scatter all kinds of versions of games throughout the internet and emulators will never improve thus.

 

Yes.

 

And that is a dangerous precedent. It is a (remotely) potential way to eliminate homegrown emulators. Current emulators are pretty good and on the upswing. But once the shit gets out there. The "quality of living" for emulators is going to drop. And companies would like nothing better than for all the freeware stuff to go away so that they control the market.

 

I can foresee one possible dark time for emulators. One caused by market flooding with sub-standard products. Much like the 1st videogame crash.

 

I suppose, like everything else, once capitalism and marketing get involved, it all goes to shit.

 

I personally really don't want to support this sort of thing. And yet these emulators are becoming the ambassadors of classic gaming. What a mixed bag. Foolish me to think they'd be of any quality, precision, or accuracy.

[enthusi]

The Revo101 GBA clone(! not emulator) is pretty decent. There people noticed that running 90% of the ROMs is just not enough.

[Keatah]

What programmers need to understand is that none of these cheap-o SoC emulators is a standard. If time is spent coding for it, likely it will need to be done again and again or patched when the company upgrades their hardware or even simply changes vendors.

 

I'm also seeing a depreciation for the original style and exact appearance. There's already patches and mods happening for these flashbacks. While I suppose it's alright to ditch the CRT look and all that in a portable. I don't like any of the rewrites and hacks that change just the colors, or at the other end of the spectrum, the whole game.

 

Is sucks that people are already changing the games' colors to compensate for a cheap $3 screen. Screw that..

Edited December 20, 2016 by Keatah

[+KaeruYojimbo]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what, if any, improvements have been made to the Flashback emulator over the years? The portable is giving a lot of us our first chance to see which games work and which don't.

 

 

I suppose, like everything else, once capitalism and marketing get involved, it all goes to shit.

 

I wonder, since so many of the games that don't work on the Flashback are homebrews, if ATGames would see any value in updating the emulator to work with games that a lot of buyers have never heard of and won't seek out.

Edited December 20, 2016 by KaeruYojimbo

[BillLoguidice]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what, if any, improvements have been made to the Flashback emulator over the years? The portable is giving a lot of us our first chance to see which games work and which don't.

 

I wonder, since so many of the games that don't work on the Flashback are homebrews, if ATGames would see any value in updating the emulator to work with games that a lot of buyers have never heard of and won't seek out.

 

Generally speaking, emulator improvements are only made between revisions to support whatever new built-in games are added. In some cases, minor feature improvements are added to make certain games work (like a button combination for Secret Quest).

 

There will be notable improvements for next year's Atari-related products, but mostly because more games are being added. It won't necessarily be because it will be designed to work with other software that's not onboard like homebrews. Of course, there will be additional incentive to get next year's products in terms of new feature adds and what-not. More on that when possible.

[Keatah]

Since the flashback hardware has changed several times over the years I would expect the internal emulator to have been re-written several times or have changed altogether.

 

If you're looking for a changelog like that which accompanies Emulator Stella or Emulator MAME, it's not likely to be revealed. That's internal company documentation.

[BillLoguidice]

Since the flashback hardware has changed several times over the years I would expect the internal emulator to have been re-written several times or have changed altogether.

 

If you're looking for a changelog like that which accompanies Emulator Stella or Emulator MAME, it's not likely to be revealed. That's internal company documentation.

 

I'm referring to the 3 - 7, plus the Portable from AtGames. The only notable change between versions is in the Portable hardware, which has a newer version of the same chipset used on the console side. Naturally we know that the original Atari Flashback used a NOAC and the 2/2+ used an AOAC.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I highly doubt optimizing a homebrew for a half broken emu is something running through any programmers head when writing a game I'm sorry to say.

/signed