Cassette loading woes!

[KulorXL]

I just got an Atari 800XL, and right now I don't have anything fancy like a SIO2SD or SIDE or whatever. What I do have is a 1010 cassette drive and a car cassette stereo adaptor, so I've been using CAS2WAV to convert TAP images into WAV files, transferring them to my phone and then playing them back into my 1010.

It seems to work pretty well...except when it doesn't.

For some reason, I'm finding the reliability of actually successfully loading a program this way is maybe 50%. There are some TAP images that just absolutely will not load, and others that load more often than not, and I'm not really sure what's going on that could be causing it to fail. Is there some kind of trick to make this more reliable?

For reference (hope this isn't frowned upon), here's a TAP image that loads successfully pretty much all the time: http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-cavernia_959.html

Here's one that loads the first side OK, but always seems to throw an error shortly into the second side: http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-yogi-s-great-escape_5895.html

The 32K version of this loads most of the time, but it never actually plays and just glitches out when you try to start: http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-encounter_1839.html

My setup is maybe a bit unique in that I have a PAL 800XL, but the cassette drive is one I picked up in the US, and I'm running it on a US mains, if that makes a difference.

[Rybags]

The setup shouldn't matter. The problem is probably dirty tape head and/or improper level of the recording, entirely possible it's too high.

And remember on many bootable tapes or disks you need to hold Option on startup (as well as Start for tapes) - until you see the normal blue window.

[Mclaneinc]

Yeah like Rybags says, there's lots of images about which are not to friendly on tape, as he said levels can be too high leading to boot error also be careful with some images about, they are turbo tapes which only work on a modded tape deck, these were very popular in Eastern Europe due to the price of disk drives being extortionate over there and I believe there was difficulties getting them but I could be wrong on that.

 

Lastly it never hurts to clean the tape head with isopropyl aka rubbing alcohol, you can also clean the rubber pinch rollers too as over time these have picked up both dirty and bits of the oxidised tape which isn't healthy when trying to load anything

 

Paul.

 

PS, do try and get some form of SD USB etc type adaptor, its so much easier and MASSIVELY quicker than 15 mins of tape access let alone multi disk games are more fun than multi load tapes which also means there lots of games that can't be ran from tape because disks allow full access to lots of data while tapes just stream in one line, plus the whole fast forward to where the tape counter says X number is a royal pain...

Edited December 18, 2016 by Mclaneinc

[voy]

CAS2WAV is VERY old - don't use this program. It was written almost 20 years ago...

 

You can convert CAS files to WAV with A8CAS-tools by Krótki or with A8CAS-util.pl by FUJI.

[suspicious_milk]

Not 100% on the 1010, but the 410/XC12s a little Philips head is all it takes to readjust the head after you clean it. Since the speed/bands are not part of this setup, a head clean and adjust would be the 1st order of business.

[KulorXL]

Thanks everyone for all the help!

 

The setup shouldn't matter. The problem is probably dirty tape head and/or improper level of the recording, entirely possible it's too high.

And remember on many bootable tapes or disks you need to hold Option on startup (as well as Start for tapes) - until you see the normal blue window.

 

I've been holding start and option for all of them -- is there a time when I shouldn't hold option? I've also been playing around with the volume level on my phone, and none of the WAV files are clipping.

 

 

Yeah like Rybags says, there's lots of images about which are not to friendly on tape, as he said levels can be too high leading to boot error also be careful with some images about, they are turbo tapes which only work on a modded tape deck, these were very popular in Eastern Europe due to the price of disk drives being extortionate over there and I believe there was difficulties getting them but I could be wrong on that.

 

Man that's a pain! I mostly got a PAL model because I want to play those weird Polish homebrew games. Are there any details on what those tape deck mods entail?

 

 

PS, do try and get some form of SD USB etc type adaptor, its so much easier and MASSIVELY quicker than 15 mins of tape access let alone multi disk games are more fun than multi load tapes which also means there lots of games that can't be ran from tape because disks allow full access to lots of data while tapes just stream in one line, plus the whole fast forward to where the tape counter says X number is a royal pain...

 

Yeah, I do intend to eventually get a SIO2SD, this is sorta my stopgap.

 

 

CAS2WAV is VERY old - don't use this program. It was written almost 20 years ago...

 

You can convert CAS files to WAV with A8CAS-tools by Krótki or with A8CAS-util.pl by FUJI.

 

The only reason I'm using CAS2WAV is because I can't actually get any of the A8CAS stuff to work! I found another thread suggesting that CAS2WAV might not be compatible with all CAS images (I was calling them TAP before, oops), but it's the only thing I've been able to get to spit out a WAV file. Running A8CAS-Convert just gives me a 40-ish KB file that's definitely not a WAV. I've tried searching for some simple usage documentation but I can't seem to find it, maybe I'm just blind.

 

 

Not 100% on the 1010, but the 410/XC12s a little Philips head is all it takes to readjust the head after you clean it. Since the speed/bands are not part of this setup, a head clean and adjust would be the 1st order of business.

 

What would the procedure be for readjusting the head, if I can find the pot for it inside the tape deck? I hope not just trial and error?

[voy]

Just type

a8cas-convert -?

Here it is:

Usage: a8cas-convert <IN_file> <OUT_file>
  -s, --samplerate=integer             Output sample rate (default: 44100)
  -f, --format=c|f|h|s|r               Output format (default: "c")
  -d, --desc=string                    CAS description
  -r, --raw                            Input file is in raw format
  Adjustments for recognising blocks of bytes:
      --header-length=integer          Number of signals needed to recognise block
      --header-deviation=float         Max. deviation between bit lengths to recognise block
      --bit-deviation=float            Max. deviation from ideal bit lengths in records' bytes
      --stop-bit-deviation=float       Max. deviation from ideal stop bit lengths in records' bytes
      --bit-timeshift=float            Distance of the shift when decoding bits (0.5 is the middle)
      --baudrate-deviation=float       Max. ratio between blocks' baudrates to avoid a baud block
      --silence-level=float            Max. amplitude (0..1) under which the signal will be treated as silence
  -v, --version                        Show version number and exit
  -?, --help                           Show this help message and exit

So you can type something like this:

a8cas-convert -f s game.cas game.wav

[Gunstar]

Try this system, it blows everything else away.

 

Turgen System: http://turgen.sourceforge.net

[suspicious_milk]

http://www.atarimania.com/documents/1010_cassette_recorder_field_service_manual.pdf

 

Pg 4-5 for the head alignment screw

[KulorXL]

 

Fantastic, that got it working!

 

 

Try this system, it blows everything else away.

 

Turgen System: http://turgen.sourceforge.net

 

This is also great!

 

I noticed something strange...I found out I can load .WAV files into Altirra, and it would appear that CAS rip of that Yogi game doesn't work in that either. Whenever I try to load it up, either directly from the CAS or from a WAV rendered by A8CAS or Turgen, I get the same flashing "CASSETTE LOAD ERROR" screen that I also get on real hardware. Is this just a bad rip?

 

The CAS image of Encounter, on the other hand, loads fine in Altirra but still loads into a glitched version of the game on my system. Since it's always glitched out in the exact same way, maybe something other than the cassette loading is at play here?

 

 

http://www.atarimania.com/documents/1010_cassette_recorder_field_service_manual.pdf

 

Pg 4-5 for the head alignment screw

 

Thanks, I'll give that a look!

[baktra]

Hello,

 

it is my experience that while some .cas files floating around the internet are perfect, others do not work at all.

While I would still recommend getting a floppy disk drive replacement device (all those fancy SIO2xx ones), there are certain possibilities to make your cassette experience better (if 600 bps can result in any kind of good experience at all).

1. My strategy is to find the desired game in form of a binary load file (.XEX) file that is working with emulator. Then I convert it to a tape image (.cas) with either XEX2CAS 2.4 or Turgen System (The Standard plugin). The probability of success is much higher. There is a price to pay, however. The .XEXes are usually pirated versions, so you lose the original experience of the fancy loading screens.
2. Get tape images and binary load files from the archive available at http://atarionline.pl/. Look for the Gry/Games section. It is a real treasure.
3. Make sure you understand limitations that come with usage of the cassette adapter. Look into the documentation that comes with Turgen System, section 7.5 Loading Binary Files with Replacement Devices to see what could be the problem. It is also assumed you know what is the internal structure of the binary load files. Get some information here, for example.

 

Note: It would appear that that section 7.5 needs some improvements along the lines of intelligibility. I will see to it.

Edited December 19, 2016 by baktra

[KulorXL]

My strategy is to find the desired game in form of a binary load file (.XEX) file that is working with emulator. Then I convert it to a tape image (.cas) with either XEX2CAS 2.4 or Turgen System (The Standard plugin). The probability of success is much higher. There is a price to pay, however. The .XEXes are usually pirated versions, so you lose the original experience of the fancy loading screens.

 

Wowwww, thanks for the tip! I just loaded Yoomp through the cassette drive, I had no idea that was even possible!

[+MrFish]

I just loaded Yoomp through the cassette drive, I had no idea that was even possible!

 

Cassette was one of the original formats sold by the authors of the game: Philsan's Homebrew Game Packages