video61atarisales Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Then whatever is too fast should be slowed down or made more accommodating. Videogames throughout history have shown a lack of adaptability to the disabled. A shame, because the adaptations are so easily incorporated. This even goes for lack of autofire in many games, which would alleviate repetitive stress injuries. this game has autofire built in, with my poor hands i to would have a tough time. but tempest elite has autofire, when i get into the right frame of mind, i can whip around those webs shooting like crazy, by just holding down the fire button. lance www.atarisales.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
video61atarisales Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Are you actually telling us here that you did not test so far to complete the entire game on real hardware? Serious? it is heavily tested on real hardware, there are three of us testing. i am a real hardware type of guy. i demand real hardware. i do not even use a emulator. lance www.atarisales.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
video61atarisales Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Don't you have an Ultimate Cart? Then you can just copy the rom to an SD card and be good to go. I'm apprehensive about anything that hasn't been continually tested on the real hardware. i do not know what that cart is, i am all ears. yes we test on real hardware, and we have been testing on real hardware from day one, right back to tempest extreme, i demanded it. lance www.atarisales.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) I personally test in emulators and on real hardware. The emulators have nice monitoring features that allowed me to track down issues that will take months to track down.bugs. The I do real hardware testing because I am aware there are some minor differences with the Pokey chip, reading keyboard, SIO, fast POT scan, etc. Look like the display is fairly accurate, but no CRT display will display an extra wide play field. Most of the time those right screen wide playfield static is not visible. Tempest is using standard playfield. I am aware there are options like THE!CARD and Ultimate SD carts, but we are already using another type of Flash Cart testing on real hardware. Uses same amount of CPU cycles to switch banks as the XEGS. It is a set of compiler options for specific cartridge types. Instead of lda #$07 sta $d507 to get to bank 7, it will be lda #$07 sta $d500 on XEGS, both 6 clock cycles. Last year, I went through the whole source to make sure it avoids writing certain values to $D5xx on flash carts, or else it opens it up for write on flash carts. Tempest Xtreme (AtariMax) had some writes to $D5xx area that had been removed in the Elite code. This was just a theory I had about what might possibly caused issue with AtariMax cart games suddenly loosing their contents. I am aware there are other possible causes like dirty contacts. Edited April 9, 2017 by peteym5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) The issue is that people should be told it's saving to the cart and when it's done saving...which is always a good idea information is king! people were turning the machine off or resetting during a write... Edited April 13, 2017 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 That would certainly cause an issue if the game on a flash cartridge saves. There are many things on Flash Cartridge that also go on EPROM cartridges. So those games don't save anything. I have a few flash cartridges here, and I tried to plug them in slightly crooked, pulling them out and plugging them while power on, and plugged it in normal. The game still booted and ran. KJMANN once told me this could be the result when someone tried to rip a flash cartridge with that Dumping Adapter connector and messed something up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I like the fact high scores and milestones are saved and can unlock future parts of games... always a nice touch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share Posted April 16, 2017 Currently we are have not decided on EPROM or Flash cartridge. EPROM will certainly will not be able to save anything back to the cartridge. So there needs to be one standard between them. The pricing of components changes from time to time and we work hard not to pass additional costs onto the consumer and make them pay more just because something costs more at the time. The only flash cart Tempest Elite is set up for is the AtariMax. That is because they can be purchased from within the United States. Carts like SIC!, THE!CART, and MegaCart will cost us more and a whole new bank switching scheme will be needed to be set up. Using compression also keeps the costs down by not requiring larger memory cartridge sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Currently we are have not decided on EPROM or Flash cartridge. EPROM will certainly will not be able to save anything back to the cartridge. So there needs to be one standard between them. The pricing of components changes from time to time and we work hard not to pass additional costs onto the consumer and make them pay more just because something costs more at the time. The only flash cart Tempest Elite is set up for is the AtariMax. That is because they can be purchased from within the United States. Carts like SIC!, THE!CART, and MegaCart will cost us more and a whole new bank switching scheme will be needed to be set up. Using compression also keeps the costs down by not requiring larger memory cartridge sizes. People did not mention Sic!, The!Cart or MegaCart to let you people make a special flashable version for these carts. People (like me, but also other people) asked you to sell the raw rom dump, so people could add that game to their already purchased The!Cart. The best option would be: write your game for AtariMax flash. Sell the game on cart, and sell the FLASH-file separately. Today everybody can dump a cart, so the piracy protection idea is no longer there. People who appreciate the cart, buy the cart. People who are only after your game (which seems to be awesome) buy the file to flash their own cart. The!Cart simply emulates AtariMax, so there is no need to write another version of your game special for The!Cart. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
video61atarisales Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 People did not mention Sic!, The!Cart or MegaCart to let you people make a special flashable version for these carts. People (like me, but also other people) asked you to sell the raw rom dump, so people could add that game to their already purchased The!Cart. The best option would be: write your game for AtariMax flash. Sell the game on cart, and sell the FLASH-file separately. Today everybody can dump a cart, so the piracy protection idea is no longer there. People who appreciate the cart, buy the cart. People who are only after your game (which seems to be awesome) buy the file to flash their own cart. The!Cart simply emulates AtariMax, so there is no need to write another version of your game special for The!Cart. this really needs to be addressed to me. i am the one that owns the company, the software, etc.. i make the decisions. so please e-mail me at video61@tcq.net to discuss this. and thanks for the interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 People did not mention Sic!, The!Cart or MegaCart to let you people make a special flashable version for these carts. People (like me, but also other people) asked you to sell the raw rom dump, so people could add that game to their already purchased The!Cart. The best option would be: write your game for AtariMax flash. Sell the game on cart, and sell the FLASH-file separately. Today everybody can dump a cart, so the piracy protection idea is no longer there. People who appreciate the cart, buy the cart. People who are only after your game (which seems to be awesome) buy the file to flash their own cart. The!Cart simply emulates AtariMax, so there is no need to write another version of your game special for The!Cart. You bring up some interesting points. Gets the old brain cells going. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) this really needs to be addressed to me. i am the one that owns the company, the software, etc.. i make the decisions. so please e-mail me at video61@tcq.net to discuss this. and thanks for the interest. The reason I discussed it here is because peteym5 comes with ideas like 'creating a version of The!Cart, or MegaCart' which illustrate that he still does not understand why these carts are suggested. You and I already discussed this in mail, and then you stated that you are willing to think about it, but that you had other people around you that also would have to agree. One of these people was peteym5. Since peteym5 is moving toward this subject more and more I think it is quite understandable that the discussion is here. If you write now in your post (#185) that it is only you making the decisions about this, I would be more than happy to explain it one more time to you in e-mail. I'm an atari 8bit enthusiastic since 1984, I support almost any project, buy a lot of software for a8 and I'm seriously motivated to support atarisales too. So a healthy and decent discussion about this: please yes. Edit: typo Edited April 17, 2017 by ProWizard 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Well I must say I should have listened to CharlieChaplin. It is indeed a dead end. What was I thinking? That I could convince them to act different? Pretty presumptuous from me, to think that with logic sense, people could possibly change their opinion. But indeed... I have to admit. I was wrong. Well it's their game, I'll let them play their game, by their rules. Very, very deep sigh. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darwinmac Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) I do not expect them to change their opinion on this topic. Once Peter mentioned this was a revenue source for him, his position started to make some sense. I may not agree with it, but I can understand the piracy concern if you need the money. While some people have access to cartridge ripping devices, I know that I do not. Therefore, their cartridge-only approach gives them some security. It is not as much as they think it does, but it does offer them some protection. I needed help from a friend when I wanted cartridges ripped so I could put them on my Ultimate Cart. It is their game to do as they please. Luckily, I am not a Tempest fan so I would not have bought it anyway. It will be a harder decision when they create a game again that I am interested in. At this point, I do not want to purchase a cartridge-only title in case I have to use only Altirra for my 8-bit gaming enjoyment. Bob C Edited April 17, 2017 by darwinmac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozar Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I do not expect them to change their opinion on this topic. Once Peter mentioned this was a revenue source for him, his position started to make some sense. I may not agree with it, but I can understand the piracy concern if you need the money. While some people have access to cartridge ripping devices, I know that I do not. Therefore, their cartridge-only approach gives them some security. It is not as much as they think it does, but it does offer them some protection. I needed help from a friend when I wanted cartridges ripped so I could put them on my Ultimate Cart. It is their game to do as they please. Luckily, I am not a Tempest fan so I would not have bought it anyway. It will be a harder decision when they create a game again that I am interested in. At this point, I do not want to purchase a cartridge-only title in case I have to use only Altirra for my 8-bit gaming enjoyment. Bob C Their stance on the subject is why I won't be purchasing it either. I really, really, REALLY want this game, but the lack of a cheaper digital only version is stopping me from buying it. The last time this came up with Venture I ended up buying the ColecoVision version. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) The Atari itself is more than capable of 'ripping' or 'dumping' cartridges all by itself.... I find their whole reasoning flawed.... silly rabbits.. tricks are for kids.... no 'special' device is needed... The Atarimax dumper/writer is just a convenience.... nice software and very fast... Takes a little longer to dump and write using the Atari itself ... no big deal! Edited April 18, 2017 by _The Doctor__ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I have a Cart Dump EPROM in an SDX cart. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 My biggest problem with this whole issue is, that it is a matter of less than a minute that when I would purchase a cart, and let it shipped... I have to pay money for cart, for shipping and for custom, and as soon as the cart arrives my home I dump it and I have exact that what I was asking for. A ROM dump. Lance explained now all of the sudden to me that he wants to support people from the shipping company too. So that the shipping is a part of the deal, so other people can share in the wealth. Lance forgets though that I offered to pay full prize of game, so he wouldn't have to deliver a cart, he wouldn't have to use an eprom-chip, so he could make a donation of that money to the people he wants to support so badly. I appreciate his noble attitude, but he brings it up now? Lance seems to forget that when I (and now I read other people too) decide not to buy the game, he can not support anyone. That looks very paradoxical to me. My other problem with carts is that the content is pretty fixed. It is rather 'impossible' to fix a bug on a cart. Lance response to that is that bugfree software does not exist, but that there are a lot of programs out there with unfixed bugs and people take that too. He uses Microsoft as an example. For the convenience Lance forgets that Microsoft might not fix all the bugs, but they actually do fix bugs and those updates are sent to users over the internet. Not by returning a program by snail-mail and receiving a fixed version back. With his cart-only product it is almost impossible to get something fixed without making again any useless shipping and custom costs. Peteym5's response that the software is heavily tested makes no sense here. The chance that there is a bug is almost 100%. Sure it is their decision, and indeed I have to accept that. The reason I find it so hard to accept (which is obvious right haha), is that the reasons are so easily refuted. They simply do not make any sense (to me). The only thing I can conclude is: Video61 plays a game with me (and other people) which is called 'No game for you'. In The Netherlands there is a saying 'The customer is king' ... but obviously that is not the case at Video61. I'll try to let this rest. Let's see how well that goes. I wish them good luck with their projects. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Video61 plays a game with me Enjoy it! This one is free... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 My biggest problem with this whole issue is, that it is a matter of less than a minute that when I would purchase a cart, and let it shipped... I have to pay money for cart, for shipping and for custom, and as soon as the cart arrives my home I dump it and I have exact that what I was asking for. A ROM dump. Lance explained now all of the sudden to me that he wants to support people from the shipping company too. So that the shipping is a part of the deal, so other people can share in the wealth. Lance forgets though that I offered to pay full prize of game, so he wouldn't have to deliver a cart, he wouldn't have to use an eprom-chip, so he could make a donation of that money to the people he wants to support so badly. I appreciate his noble attitude, but he brings it up now? Lance seems to forget that when I (and now I read other people too) decide not to buy the game, he can not support anyone. That looks very paradoxical to me. I wouldn't waste time worrying about what other people are doing or their logic. Their loss, not yours. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Enjoy it! This one is free... Haha best comment ever! Thanks, it made me smile! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necro-M Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I just got an Atari 800 XL working and I'd really like to own this game. Hope it comes out in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomSW Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I think I have a solution! Let all die-hard enthusiasts buy one extra copy and then give it away to someone from this thread. If someone will want to dump it, dumps it anyway, but it will be more... "legal"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) I had chosen not to encode certain bank switching schemes for other cartridges because we will never use them. Information on what to send to the $D5xx area is not always not available, in English, or is incomplete. It would take an effort to rewrite large sections of the program to use other bank switching schemes. Some of those only become available when someone wants to do a production run. AtariMax seems to have a large number in stock. I am involved with writing other games so I do not have time to be involved with any rhetoric some members try to generate here. We are beta testing both compressed and uncompressed versions of these games. Compressed versions need to expand into RAM and need a different set up. Edited April 18, 2017 by peteym5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 Something that happened was the decision to make 128K versions with Deflate/Inflate came after Tempest Elite was already done. This meant a bunch of memory locations needed to be shifted around and decide when stuff needed to be loaded into RAM. The RMT music, fonts, digital sounds, and VBXE graphics are things compressed. Not all the digital sounds could be loaded at once now to make room for RMT music in RAM instead from cartridge bank. The "Excellent" and "Yes...Yes...Yes..." are expanded to the same location at different times. The 256K version does not have these issues because it is playing music stored in the ROM banks. Sometimes one version will be beta tested but not the others. So we had a recent problem with these compressed versions not expanding something into RAM before playing a digital sound. I fixed it, but we may not sale the compressed version at first. The decision not to sale or distribute the ROM images is of Video61 and Atarisales.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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