Tempest Elite coming soon to Atari 8-bit

[Poison]

will be available digital download/sale? Not cart needed.

[peteym5]

No digital downloads, cartridge only. Game needs 128K of ROM cartridge space and certainly cannot be loaded into the standard 64K RAM from disk, or even the 128K area of a 130XE.

Will be package in clam shell and color laserjet/inkjet printed manual.

I have to encode some booby traps to make sure there is no Russian Hacking.

Edited January 11, 2017 by peteym5

[ZylonBane]

will be available digital download/sale?

 

As opposed to... analog download?

[peteym5]

 

As opposed to... analog download?

 

Analog Server on real Atari at 300 baud for the uncompressed 256K version. Only one person can dial it at a time on a land line modem. Give everyone a real retro experience.

 

I was able to emulate the driving controller and trackball with Altirra using PC Mouse and Joypad. I can use the debugger to see what is going on with the inputs and program variables. Now I have to wait for a report back from some people testing the latest update on a real machine.

 

Something else I tried to do with Tempest Elite was get this closer to the arcade game timing and smooth out the flipper animation

[Brentarian]

 

As opposed to... analog download?

 

Here is your ANALOG download:

 

:grin:

[peteym5]

Just to let everyone know I looked at some services last year and looked at what they charged to host files. A lot of them are gear toward applications that install on modern PC / Mobil devices and register with the end users Operating System and Hardware. From what some of them charge, its probably better to stick with selling cartridges. Unless someone knows a reputable service that can host just files.

Edited January 13, 2017 by peteym5

[Marius]

As said before in a PM... I consider buying the cart, but please take in mind this:

 

I will buy the cart...

I will pay the (outrageous) shipping costs

I will take the risk of shipping trouble

I will have it shipped to my place -producing all kind of extra -UNNEEDED- pollution with co2 emissions caused by all that shipping-

I will dump it at my place...

I will have the file then (which is all I need and want)

I will put that file on my own multi-cart...

I will have the file in one hand and a cart in one hand... hmmm that is interesting

 

Just for a complete picture, the alternative that will never happen:

 

I will pay the same money

I will download the file

I won't be the cause of any extra unneeded pollution, because there is no shipping

I won't have any shipping risks,

I won't have to pay custom fees,

I will have the file (same as the situation above)

I won't have a cart that I can sell after purchase.

 

What is the best alternative for everybody? Hmm that is a though one.

[peteym5]

Lets not get tied up with the distribution of the game until it is released. It has been delayed because of issues with the alternate controller code not updating the input correctly. I am still awaiting reports to see if I need to do more adjustments. Controllers like Indy 500, Trackball, and Paddle seems to be something lots of people will like to have and I want that working.

[+CharlieChaplin]

As said before in a PM... I consider buying the cart, but please take in mind this:

 

I will buy the cart...

I will pay the (outrageous) shipping costs

I will take the risk of shipping trouble

I will have it shipped to my place -producing all kind of extra -UNNEEDED- pollution with co2 emissions caused by all that shipping-

I will dump it at my place...

I will have the file then (which is all I need and want)

I will put that file on my own multi-cart...

I will have the file in one hand and a cart in one hand... hmmm that is interesting

 

Just for a complete picture, the alternative that will never happen:

 

I will pay the same money

I will download the file

I won't be the cause of any extra unneeded pollution, because there is no shipping

I won't have any shipping risks,

I won't have to pay custom fees,

I will have the file (same as the situation above)

I won't have a cart that I can sell after purchase.

 

What is the best alternative for everybody? Hmm that is a though one.

 

Do I understand this correctly ?

Your argument for digital downloads is "(to avoid) unneeded pollution" ?

[Marius]

 

Do I understand this correctly ?

Your argument for digital downloads is "(to avoid) unneeded pollution" ?

 

Comprehensive reading is harder than expected obviously.

 

It is one of the plethora of arguments I (can) give for downloadable versions. Most of the reasons are beneficial for Video61/Peteym5 too. It is definitely a win-win situation, and indeed one of the benefits is that my package is not brought here by a mailman using a polluting bus with packages.

 

To say it short: downloadable version is green... that is a valid argument.

Edited January 13, 2017 by ProWizard

[+CharlieChaplin]

 

Comprehensive reading is harder than expected obviously.

 

It is one of the plethora of arguments I (can) give for downloadable versions. Most of the reasons are beneficial for Video61/Peteym5 too. It is definitely a win-win situation, and indeed one of the benefits is that my package is not brought here by a mailman using a polluting bus with packages.

 

To say it short: downloadable version is green... that is a valid argument.

 

Well, I do not think so (for me a downloadable version is not green!)... but I better stop here.

 

Alas, you never stop asking about digital downloads... allthough Albert once asked you (and others) to do so and accept peteym`s decision about it...

[Marius]

 

Well, I do not think so (for me a downloadable version is not green!)... but I better stop here.

 

Alas, you never stop asking about digital downloads... allthough Albert once asked you (and others) to do so and accept peteym`s decision about it...

 

Where did I ask for it? The first line of my post is that I consider buying the cart. And next to that: I understand that you are applying for a non-vacant position of moderator? Why are you responding or reading anyway what I write or not write. The 'ignore' feature is just two clicks away. Go ahead!

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Analog Server on real Atari at 300 baud for the uncompressed 256K version. Only one person can dial it at a time on a land line modem. Give everyone a real retro experience.

I was thinking distribute it on cassette for a retail distribution model? Though it would be very easy to rip to WAV. Not sure if 320-kbit MP3 download would mutilate the data though. MP3 sucks as a compression format. Vorbis, AAC, and pretty much everything else is superior...

[peteym5]

Anything other than cartridge will require real Atari Computers with 256K RAM or more. Most people still have stock 800XL, 65XE, XEGS, (800XE) with 64K RAM. It would also require full double density 180K disk. Take some time to load. So there would be issues with a disk version for everybody. Cassette will take forever, very funny.

 

If these alternate controller routines work, I will incorporate them into several other games.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Anything other than cartridge will require real Atari Computers with 256K RAM or more. Most people still have stock 800XL, 65XE, XEGS, (800XE) with 64K RAM. It would also require full double density 180K disk. Take some time to load. So there would be issues with a disk version for everybody. Cassette will take forever, very funny.

 

If these alternate controller routines work, I will incorporate them into several other games.

I thought the XEGS had the maximum upgrade of all stock models since it was released the latest. Wasn't 64kbytes (16-bit indexing) the limit of 8-bit CPU addressing?

[peteym5]

XEGS was a 65XE repackaged with cartridge port on top and detachable keyboard.

 

I have a separate thread going asking if people will like to see Delta Space Arena modified to work with different controllers like the driving controllers. Now all the people who had purchased the cartridge game do enjoy playing it with the joystick and no one posted any complaints on here yet. However there seems to be a growing interest for games that support the driving controller since the game had been released. I had been seeing a lot of requests. If I was going to support the Driving Controller, I decided why not include Paddle and Trackball.

[_The Doctor__]

no ip dyndns etc etc, host the file yourself or do it via email..... whatever.... lame excuses in the for and against columns...... moves on....

[Marius]

Anything other than cartridge will require real Atari Computers with 256K RAM or more. Most people still have stock 800XL, 65XE, XEGS, (800XE) with 64K RAM. It would also require full double density 180K disk. Take some time to load. So there would be issues with a disk version for everybody. Cassette will take forever, very funny.

 

If these alternate controller routines work, I will incorporate them into several other games.

 

I do not have the feeling hat it does matter what I answer to this, but like I wrote in the past... I am not asking for an XEX or disk version, but simply for the ROM file that you burn in the eprom on the cart. What is the difference for you if I read out the cart myself and write that same file to disk?

 

You are obviously not aware of all the development in atari 8bit world the last decade. There are cartridges available that can carry multiple ROM files. There is The!Cart and there is The Ultimate SD Cart. You simply add the ROM file to these carts and you can play. The!Cart has 128 Megabyte of space so all the games are on that cart here. All kind of games that run on 64K Atari; your Tempest Elite would also play on 64K computer using The!Cart, since it does handle ROM and CAR files (yes that is the raw dump file of EPROMS).

 

Dumping a cart is easy:

A lot of people own this device: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/149720-usb-cartridge-programmer-and-maxflash-studio-software-now-available/

 

Reading out your cartridge (and almost any other cartridge) will be a piece of cake with that device.

 

After I obtained the ROM-file using that device, I will add the ROM file to my multiple-rom-cart called "The!Cart"

The Atari will not see the difference. The Atari will "think" that the original Tempest Elite cart is connected.

 

Like I wrote before, if you do not provide the cartridge rom file for sale... well I might purchase the cartridge itself anyway. No problem. Only a waste of shipping money and more.

 

My problem with this discussion is that the given reasons not to provide a download version always are not applicable to my situation or the reality.

And everytime when I explain why the answer does not fit, there is given a new reason.

 

I agree it is peteym5's game. He can decide what and how he wants to provide the game. The only thing I wanted to make clear with this post: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/260178-tempest-elite-coming-soon-to-atari-8-bit/?p=3671092

 

Was to explain to peteym5 that even if he does not want to provide a file, it did not matter, since it is possible to dump (nearly) every cart without even opening the cart, so that it would be easier, safer, and yes finally even greener, to provide the file.

 

If he does not want me or anyone to have a rom-dump of his game, he should decide not to sell the cart in whatever form.

 

I know the stories where download vs physical storage medium about pollution. But hey... in all those stories only CD's or Blue ray are compared to huge data. The download of a 128Kilobyte rom file would take a few seconds. That is greener than creating and shipping a cartridge. But sure, it is not the only reason. All the other reasons have been given in the past, and yes it is not needed to repeat them over and over again.

 

People who think that I'm bashing, or compulsively begging for downloads just to annoy peteym5, or that I do not respect his decision to sell 'cart only' are wrong. I seriously appreciate his work, and like I wrote before in this topic I think it is wonderful that he does all this for the community. That more people ask for a downloadable version (and there are many people who would want this, you can verify that by reading recent and older topics) is for the simple reason that they love the game, but want to play it in their setup and not to spill money or whatever for something they do not need or not gonna use.

 

I offered my apologies to Peteym5 in PM for things that happened in the past between us, and I still stand behind those apologies.

 

The atari hobby is only fun when people keep writing new titles. Peteym5 does that, and I want to support that.

My contribution is not writing software, but buying all that stuff. And anyone here can see that I do that -A LOT!- Almost every new project is supported by me, and I find it very important to do that, to keep the atari alive.

 

I find it a pity though that the development of all these new things (like The!Cart, The ultimate SD cart etc) is not in sync with the development of all the great games of peteym5.

And since he gave several reasons for not providing a file in the past, I did like to show him that all his reasons are not applicable.

 

Also to show him, since he find some things very important (like piracy), that it providing cart-only is a false sense of security against piracy.

 

The last word: I do not tell him what to do, I try to give him motivated insight why the reasons he brings up are not answers to my questions. I also am not telling him that releasing a cart is a wrong thing to do. I simply hope I can buy the rom file of his game cartridge, while he also offers the game on cart.

 

Well I think this motivated post explains it all. For the last time I say sorry about all this. And what _The Doctor_ says... let's move on.

Edited January 14, 2017 by ProWizard

[vattari]

I'm new to the 8-bit scene but I've always thought the principals of intellectual property would be applied when preserving someone's commercial interests. I figured that doing this by somehow ensuring it wouldn't be copied by going the cartridge route was the way to guarantee this was via a physical media, then I respect that.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Marius]

I'm new to the 8-bit scene but I've always thought the principals of intellectual property would be applied when preserving someone's commercial interests. I figured that doing this by somehow ensuring it wouldn't be copied by going the cartridge route was the way to guarantee this was via a physical media, then I respect that.

 

I /NEVER/ spread or copy anything that is not to be spread, no matter what the carrier is. So I respect it too.

[vattari]

 

I /NEVER/ spread or copy anything that is not to be spread, no matter what the carrier is. So I respect it too.

I'm certainly not alluding to that but authors probably have to cater for the 1% that do

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Marius]

I'm certainly not alluding to that but authors probably have to cater for the 1% that do

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I know... but that is what I meant with the false sense of security.

If peteym5 really wants to protect his property (and I encourage him to do, seriously) I'd say: built your OWN pcb with special logic that can not be emulated (at this moment)

Or better: add some extra's to the hardware of the cart that make it worth buying the game on cart.

When people can save their progress and scores on the cart itself, or perhaps other bells and whistles ...

 

That makes it -even for me- interesting to buy the game on cart.

[peteym5]

I am juggling several different Atari games in development at the present time, so I only reply to technical concerns about these games. Now the game requires the use of the whole 64K RAM, including the RAM under the OS ROM because the digital sound samples that need to be decompressed into RAM before playing, Due to the CPU usage need for playback, the IRQ interrupt routine only needs to scan the memory and output to a sound register. It does the 4 bit unpack for the volume only mode, 2 volume sets per byte. So doing any live decompression, bank switching, etc, or any other processes inside that IRQ, would had been problematic.

 

I had been looking for suggestions about improving the digital sound process and shortening up the memory usage over the years. Tempest Xtreme and Tempest Elite are the only two games I have that makes uses of digital these sound samples.

[Marius]

I thought the XEGS had the maximum upgrade of all stock models since it was released the latest. Wasn't 64kbytes (16-bit indexing) the limit of 8-bit CPU addressing?

 

Carts can have virtually unlimited space, since they work with a bank-switching technique. The stock 8KB window ($a000-bfff) and 16KB ($8000-9fff + $a000-bfff) are seen by the atari but the contents of this area can switch when using the right banks. It's the same technique that is used in the 130XE where the extra 64KB is divided in 4 windows of each 16KB.

 

So yes, the 6502 can address 65535 max bytes. But thanks to bank switching technique there is not really a limitation. But there is always a max of 64KB seen by the 6502 at the same time yes.

Edited January 14, 2017 by ProWizard

[peteym5]

 

Carts can have virtually unlimited space, since they work with a bank-switching technique. The stock 8KB window ($a000-bfff) and 16KB ($8000-9fff + $a000-bfff) are seen by the atari but the contents of this area can switch when using the right banks. It's the same technique that is used in the 130XE where the extra 64KB is divided in 4 windows of each 16KB.

The 130XE and other expanded RAM upgrades have the window at $4000 to $7FFF (16384 to 32767), different memory window area than that of the cartridges. The RAM under ROM area is $C000 to $CFFF and $D800 to $FFFF. The area at $D000 to $D7FF is the IO area for the chip registers. Control for 130XE and other extended RAM upgrades is at $D301 (54017). I am not sure how upgrades beyond 512k work, I know some use the "basic off" bit. Cartridges use the $D5xx area, usages depends on different types like XEGS, OSS, Williams, AtariMax, SIC!, etc.

Edited January 14, 2017 by peteym5