Bikerbob Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 All good. just need to check all connections.. which seemed fine.. replugged it all together.. now I get sound. So 400 and 800xl upgraded. Time to do the 800. James 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 All good everything running.. and Video jack installed from an old parts 800xl. James 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbringer Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 On 8/25/2019 at 6:55 PM, ChildOfCv said: What you seem to be pointing out is that there is artifacting between color changes. That's just par for the course with composite video. Its low bandwidth means you can't get good sharp transitions. You might see slightly better video with S-video, but the only way to get pixel-perfect output is with RGB or digital. Not sure I agree. I have two other installs, an 800 and 400 that look sharp. I have another 800 with the same effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, Stormbringer said: Not sure I agree. I have two other installs, an 800 and 400 that look sharp. I have another 800 with the same effect. The 400 and 800 (anything with a GTIA, I think) can take advantage of the little potentiometer on the UAV to fine-tune the signal edges and minimize the composite "bleed" (artifacting). I don't believe that it has any effect when a UAV is installed in a different system like a 2600 or 7800. This is explained in great (often technical) detail in the original UAV thread. That thread is long (33 pages) but the early parts as Bryan goes over the design details, shares 'scope traces of the signals, etc. are well worth reading over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChildOfCv Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 On 8/24/2019 at 10:39 AM, Stormbringer said: I was having issues earlier with a heavy 6 and the UAV r.C and I posted a pic of Adventure earlier but got ignored (its ok, happens to me in life). So I ended up getting a UAV r.D and im getting the same issues. You can see at the edges of everything its all... shifted, offset, unaligned ?!?!? I don't know what to call it but heres a pic. I have tried 3 different TV's using the composite with the same effect. I've put a socket over the 4050 and followed all the directions I could find here. Any ideas or should I post this in another thread? OH, I also need at least one or two of those audio boards! Okay, I read through the thread on the original UAV release and refinement, and have a better understanding about what it's doing. What I see in your picture is that you have a massive delay between luminance changes on each pixel. Zooming in on the gate, for instance, there is a white stripe a couple of pixels before, then it goes mostly dark before going completely black. That seems to indicate that there's inductance somewhere in the video generation that fights against changes. It could be within the 2600, but it could also be in your composite cable itself. When you tried different TVs, did you try different cables too? If it's not the cable, then the problem could be that you forgot to remove an inductor somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbringer Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 (edited) Not sure I understand " If it's not the cable, then the problem could be that you forgot to remove an inductor somewhere.". Can you elaborate? I did use multiple cables, TV's and a couple of different UAV installs in a 400 and 800 to compare. I used the instructions from: Edited August 31, 2019 by Stormbringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChildOfCv Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 7 hours ago, Stormbringer said: I used the instructions from: It may be necessary to visually inspect the work. It appears that some of the big pitfalls include making sure the socket is soldered to each pin on the 4050, and without shorting any of them. Soldering to the wrong side of resistors on the board is another possible issue. Could you post pictures of the socket pins and areas where board work was done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Need help again. Was troubleshooting what I thought was a bad UAV in a 1088xel.. SO I removed it from there.. installed it in my Great working 800xl with UAV. Plugged it in.. and instead of bad colour I got no colour B/W .. thought the UAV from the 1088xel must be bad. - Reinstalled the good UAV that was originally in the 800xl.. just B/w.. I have lost all my colour somehow. All connections are good.. only thing I did was remove and reinstall UAVs.. I need a hand. Running out of energy for all this. Thanks James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 23 minutes ago, Bikerbob said: Need help again. Was troubleshooting what I thought was a bad UAV in a 1088xel.. SO I removed it from there.. installed it in my Great working 800xl with UAV. Plugged it in.. and instead of bad colour I got no colour B/W .. thought the UAV from the 1088xel must be bad. - Reinstalled the good UAV that was originally in the 800xl.. just B/w.. I have lost all my colour somehow. All connections are good.. only thing I did was remove and reinstall UAVs.. I need a hand. Running out of energy for all this. Thanks James Check the jumper block configuration. I don’t believe the 800XL and XEL configuration is identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 They are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MacRorie Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Bikerbob said: They are. Yes, they are the same. So, here’s the thing: the connections on the green terminal block are not the most secure in the world, so I would check your wires first. Second, I would make sure you did not switch a wire position. Third, how did you install the XEL UAV in the 800XL? Did you R&R a terminal strip? Did you connect wires to the pins on the XEL UAV? If the latter, I would DEFINITELY check your wires to see if you a) did not make a solid connection and b) did not pull a wire from a solder point origination (i.e., where you soldered the wires that eventually lead to the UAV terminal block. Then, how is the UAV installed in the 800XL? socket or socket soldered on top of the 4050? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarland Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Bikerbob said: They are. Please post some closeup photos of your UAV & connection points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) Last 3-4 posts in the 1088 build have the pictures. I was going to re-re the pins.. but then thought wait.. i have a bunch of spare sockets.. so i doubled up. Then installed. Looked ok.. just b/w .. but this was the uav from the 1088 that i thought might have been bad.. so.. maybe it was.. but when i put the uav that originally come from that machine back in.. b/w as well. So i did SOMETHING to the 800xl somehow because both uav give same result. The colour pot seems to range from .5v to 9.3v moves fine but dont remember that large of a voltage range. James Edited September 9, 2019 by Bikerbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarland Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Bikerbob said: Last 3-4 posts in the 1088 build have the pictures. I was going to re-re the pins.. but then thought wait.. i have a bunch of spare sockets.. so i doubled up. Then installed. Looked ok.. just b/w .. but this was the uav from the 1088 that i thought might have been bad.. so.. maybe it was.. but when i put the uav that originally come from that machine back in.. b/w as well. So i did SOMETHING to the 800xl somehow because both uav give same result. The colour pot seems to range from .5v to 9.3v moves fine but dont remember that large of a voltage range. James Edit: nevermind I was mistaken. Edited September 9, 2019 by Sugarland 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarland Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) Nevermind. I see nothing wrong with your install. Edited September 9, 2019 by Sugarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sugarland said: Nevermind. I see nothing wrong with your install. Its ok, I am having the same fun.. I need to back through UAV threads.. IS there any CAPs or something else I could have touched?? how do I troubleshoot the COLOUR portion of the circuit? James Edited September 9, 2019 by Bikerbob once I thought then I forgot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChildOfCv Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Bikerbob said: Its ok, I am having the same fun.. I need to back through UAV threads.. IS there any CAPs or something else I could have touched?? how do I troubleshoot the COLOUR portion of the circuit? James Well, without an oscilloscope... I guess you could at least look for signs of life on the color input terminal of the UAV with a voltmeter. There should be a bit of DC voltage on that pin. Also, those two inductors that are pulled up... are either of them labled L7? Because the color output goes through an amplifier circuit and then through L7 before moving on to its final destination(s). Edited September 9, 2019 by ChildOfCv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, ChildOfCv said: Well, without an oscilloscope... I guess you could at least look for signs of life on the color input terminal of the UAV with a voltmeter. There should be a bit of DC voltage on that pin. You can also leave the machine powered up and then press/wiggle around the surface mount components and see that affects the B/W image, as well as the small potentiometer on the UAV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Looking at Sugerland's pic a few times this afternoon got me thinking.. I screwed up putting the IN into the circuit.. I put it next to the other wires.. so I was putting it into the other ground. SO.. BOTH UAVs.. work fine.. Which is good for this thread.. good UAV rev Ds.. but not for my 1088.. which is still messed up.. and its not the UAV.. but it is going to the video circuit. James 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacka013 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Hi, are these boards still for sale? Regards Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Bryan has licensed production of these boards to @MacRorie (Brewing Academy), so they are available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 On 8/29/2019 at 2:24 PM, ChildOfCv said: Okay, I read through the thread on the original UAV release and refinement, and have a better understanding about what it's doing. What I see in your picture is that you have a massive delay between luminance changes on each pixel. Zooming in on the gate, for instance, there is a white stripe a couple of pixels before, then it goes mostly dark before going completely black. That seems to indicate that there's inductance somewhere in the video generation that fights against changes. It could be within the 2600, but it could also be in your composite cable itself. When you tried different TVs, did you try different cables too? If it's not the cable, then the problem could be that you forgot to remove an inductor somewhere. Actually this happens on the composite for pretty much every 7800 I've installed one of these in. But it is still the best composite I've seen from these consoles vs other kits I've looked at. The s-video out from the UAV on the other hand, at least on the 7800 is very clean in comparison. But I've also not installed the UAV into a 2600 as yet so can't comment if the slight artifacting is worse on those systems or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MacRorie Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 hour ago, blacka013 said: Hi, are these boards still for sale? Regards Andy 1 hour ago, Stephen said: Bryan has licensed production of these boards to @MacRorie (Brewing Academy), so they are available. Stephen has it on the nose: Here they are: A8 versions: https://thebrewingacademy.com/collections/atari-800-xl-xe-xel-xld/products/tba-ultimate-atari-video-uav-board-for-400-800-xl-xe Everything UAV related: https://thebrewingacademy.com/search?q=UAV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbringer Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 9 hours ago, -^Cro§Bow^- said: Actually this happens on the composite for pretty much every 7800 I've installed one of these in. But it is still the best composite I've seen from these consoles vs other kits I've looked at. The s-video out from the UAV on the other hand, at least on the 7800 is very clean in comparison. But I've also not installed the UAV into a 2600 as yet so can't comment if the slight artifacting is worse on those systems or not. Ive checked my soldering and connections several times and that doesn't seem to be the culprit. if this is just the quality than I understand - at least someone else piped up with the same results. Wish someone who knows the video out intimately knows if this can be addressed or not? yes, the SVIDEO is nice but what the heck devices have that nowadays? I want to bring my 2600 into the livingroom, not stuck on a 14" monitor with svideo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stormbringer said: Ive checked my soldering and connections several times and that doesn't seem to be the culprit. if this is just the quality than I understand - at least someone else piped up with the same results. Wish someone who knows the video out intimately knows if this can be addressed or not? yes, the SVIDEO is nice but what the heck devices have that nowadays? I want to bring my 2600 into the livingroom, not stuck on a 14" monitor with svideo. That is why there is the Retrotink2x. My point was that LCDs will always show the artifacting that was always present on composite and that the CRT was so good at hiding and blending away. Forgot to mention another thing. Your image is stretched to 16:9 and under proper 4:3 aspect, the ghosting/bleeding...etc is much less noticed. Edited September 11, 2019 by -^Cro§Bow^- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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