The UAV Rev. D Video Upgrade Thread

[flashjazzcat]

You don't need to solder anything to those 5V and GND pads if the UAV is plugged into the CD4050 socket.

[irwinpks]

On 8/18/2020 at 12:46 PM, flashjazzcat said:

You don't need to solder anything to those 5V and GND pads if the UAV is plugged into the CD4050 socket.

Thanks!  I'll remove it.

[cawley1]

Hi all, can I just pick some brains regarding the 130XE installation and connecting GND...

 

The manual has confused me slightly as on the step by step process for the plug-in board, it shows GND running to resistor R52. However, page 29 talks about when you use the DIN connector (which I do);

 

'the absolutely cleanest way to wire the UAV is to cut the centre of the split pad for ground, then soldering a ground wire to a place connected to the large ground plane near the DIN port. This wire can be attached to the UAV terminal grounds in the back, OR soldered to the RIGHT side of the 'G' split pad. This way the UAV and the monitor DIN have an identical ground connection'.

 

So, if I want the cleanest way of wiring to use the DIN port, do I *not* connect GND to resistor R52, and instead connect this to the 'large ground plane' near the DIN port'?

 

Also I notice there are two GND on the UAV terminal, and the manual shows using the 5th terminal, yet nothing in the 1st terminal? I was planning on using the GND from the 5th terminal, so I would run this to R52 or the 'large ground plane'? Is this plane the rectangular space with a hole in the middle that the shielding twist comes out of?

 

Sorry for the noob questions, but I want the best video possible out of this XE!

 

Thanks,
Paul

[+MacRorie]

6 minutes ago, cawley1 said:

Hi all, can I just pick some brains regarding the 130XE installation and connecting GND...

 

The manual has confused me slightly as on the step by step process for the plug-in board, it shows GND running to resistor R52. However, page 29 talks about when you use the DIN connector (which I do);

Which version of the manual do you have?  The current version is 1.92, I have attached it.

 

6 minutes ago, cawley1 said:

 

'the absolutely cleanest way to wire the UAV is to cut the centre of the split pad for ground, then soldering a ground wire to a place connected to the large ground plane near the DIN port. This wire can be attached to the UAV terminal grounds in the back, OR soldered to the RIGHT side of the 'G' split pad. This way the UAV and the monitor DIN have an identical ground connection'.

 

So, if I want the cleanest way of wiring to use the DIN port, do I *not* connect GND to resistor R52, and instead connect this to the 'large ground plane' near the DIN port'?

 

Also I notice there are two GND on the UAV terminal, and the manual shows using the 5th terminal, yet nothing in the 1st terminal? I was planning on using the GND from the 5th terminal, so I would run this to R52 or the 'large ground plane'? Is this plane the rectangular space with a hole in the middle that the shielding twist comes out of?

All "grounds" are electrically connected.  However, distance and intervening circuitry can introduce noise.    You could enhance that ground by splitting the ground pad (thus decreasing the number of ground connections and thus noise on the UAV), however, that is all up to your situation.  Truth be told, the fact that you are inserting it into the socket of the 4050 is also connecting the UAV to ground.

 

R52, if I am not mistaken gives you a ground connection from the UAV to the monitor port.  I would hook it up according to the Step-by-step and see if what you get is pleasing to you.  If not, then go through the extra hassle.  I am not certain you are going to see a significant difference, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

6 minutes ago, cawley1 said:

Sorry for the noob questions, but I want the best video possible out of this XE!

 

No worries.

6 minutes ago, cawley1 said:

Thanks,
Paul

 

-M

TBA UAV Manual_192.pdf

[cawley1]

23 minutes ago, MacRorie said:

Which version of the manual do you have?  The current version is 1.92, I have attached it.

 

All "grounds" are electrically connected.  However, distance and intervening circuitry can introduce noise.    You could enhance that ground by splitting the ground pad (thus decreasing the number of ground connections and thus noise on the UAV), however, that is all up to your situation.  Truth be told, the fact that you are inserting it into the socket of the 4050 is also connecting the UAV to ground.

 

R52, if I am not mistaken gives you a ground connection from the UAV to the monitor port.  I would hook it up according to the Step-by-step and see if what you get is pleasing to you.  If not, then go through the extra hassle.  I am not certain you are going to see a significant difference, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

No worries.

 

-M

TBA UAV Manual_192.pdf 67.69 MB · 2 downloads

Hi MacRorie,

Thanks for the quick reply - I have the latest manual, this one arrived from you a few days ago (I had to get a local computer store remove the 4050 for me and install the socket!).

 

I have just powered it up after doing the mod and it looks awesome - I ran GND to R52 as you suggested. I use a CRT which gives a great image through RGB on other systems, so this is the best image I have seen out of an 8-Bit Atari through composite. Do you think given that I have it socketed in the 4050 space that cutting the ground pad would make any difference, or is it better to leave it now? I don't see how it could get much better!

The only other thing - now the internal shield will not fit, unless I cut it. Is it a big deal if I don't put it back in? I would rather get it fitted somehow as I prefer to leave things as 'original' as possible, but is it that big of a deal?

Thanks again,
Paul

[+MacRorie]

2 hours ago, cawley1 said:

I have just powered it up after doing the mod and it looks awesome - I ran GND to R52 as you suggested. I use a CRT which gives a great image through RGB on other systems, so this is the best image I have seen out of an 8-Bit Atari through composite. Do you think given that I have it socketed in the 4050 space that cutting the ground pad would make any difference, or is it better to leave it now? I don't see how it could get much better!

The ground is not going to make too much difference if you are not seeing any problems (IMHO).  However, you should eventually hook up Chroma/Luma either in a monitor that will take the separated inputs or S-video/SVHS

2 hours ago, cawley1 said:

The only other thing - now the internal shield will not fit, unless I cut it. Is it a big deal if I don't put it back in? I would rather get it fitted somehow as I prefer to leave things as 'original' as possible, but is it that big of a deal?

No, not really at all.  The top shield really doesn't make a difference.  For some reason, the bottom shield does (sometimes), so leave that in place.

[cawley1]

Had a good play with this 130XE today - the video really is a massive improvement (and I didn't cut the pad).

 

I actually forgot I had a NOS PAL 130XE in my game room (!), and having plugged that in I can't describe how poor the video is - as bad as this NTSC machine before the UAV. Now do I get another board at some point and modify this NOS unit, or just leave it as-is?

 

Realistically I need three more UAV - one for the PAL 800XL I use (video is not too bad on that already), one for the NOS PAL 130XE I mentioned and one for an NTSC 2600 Jr which has a composite mod. The only issue is the killer fees I had to pay getting this into the UK. The total cost for the board and shipping was a very reasonable $44.68, so roughly £32.80 in Sterling. Despite the box being marked as merchandise with a value of $30, I got hit with £32.03 in customs charges! £8.00 Royal Mail handling fee and for some reason VAT at £24.03 - how is that even possible when VAT runs at 20%? Even with shipping the most it should have been is £6.56 before the rip-off handling fee. I basically paid the price of the board and shipping in fees!

I really wish The Brewing Academy had a European branch... 

[+mytek]

23 hours ago, cawley1 said:

Despite the box being marked as merchandise with a value of $30, I got hit with £32.03 in customs charges! £8.00 Royal Mail handling fee and for some reason VAT at £24.03 - how is that even possible when VAT runs at 20%? Even with shipping the most it should have been is £6.56 before the rip-off handling fee. I basically paid the price of the board and shipping in fees!

I don't know if this still holds true today, but over the last couple of years I've sent stuff to @flashjazzcat (also in the UK).  I would state "vintage electronic parts" with a value of $30 on the customs declaration form. And as far as I know there were no extra fees attached when it arrived in the UK. The last time I sent him a big box containing a 1088XLD kit of parts. I don't know if the description triggers things, or if its stated value, or both.

 

The first time I posted something to him I made the mistake of listing all the individual items and showing a value for each, which resulted in Jon having to pay a bunch of fees. Hence the reason I changed the way I filled out the declaration form from that point forward.

 

Is a 1088XLD kit worth more than $30? I'm not going to say .

 

However TBA is a business, and as such can't risk fibbing about the value. But if it's the description that triggers things, calling it "vintage electronic parts" is not really lying.

 

Edit: I also changed from putting my company name and address on the label to my personal name and address. That may be what actually changed things, since it looks to be coming from an individual instead of a company.

 

[+MacRorie]

19 hours ago, cawley1 said:

Had a good play with this 130XE today - the video really is a massive improvement (and I didn't cut the pad).

 

I actually forgot I had a NOS PAL 130XE in my game room (!), and having plugged that in I can't describe how poor the video is - as bad as this NTSC machine before the UAV. Now do I get another board at some point and modify this NOS unit, or just leave it as-is?

 

Realistically I need three more UAV - one for the PAL 800XL I use (video is not too bad on that already), one for the NOS PAL 130XE I mentioned and one for an NTSC 2600 Jr which has a composite mod. The only issue is the killer fees I had to pay getting this into the UK. The total cost for the board and shipping was a very reasonable $44.68, so roughly £32.80 in Sterling. Despite the box being marked as merchandise with a value of $30, I got hit with £32.03 in customs charges! £8.00 Royal Mail handling fee and for some reason VAT at £24.03 - how is that even possible when VAT runs at 20%? Even with shipping the most it should have been is £6.56 before the rip-off handling fee. I basically paid the price of the board and shipping in fees!

I really wish The Brewing Academy had a European branch... 

 

So, Rees Clissold has purchased a batch of the UAVs for resale and he is located in the UK!  I made sure he had some in stock and here is his webshop:

 

https://shop.ctrl-alt-rees.com/products/ultimate-atari-video-mod-for-2600-5200-7800-8-bit

 

It's not perfect, but it should avoid the tariffs.  And speaking of tariffs. . . I really wish I could help y'all out there.  The problem is I ship hundreds of packages every month and if I do it for one person, then I have to do it for everybody and then, well, I start to get nasty calls and letters from government authorities.  I would rather NOT get those.

 

However, I have started to give some thought to becoming a VAT-certified business.  IF I do that, then the prices will go up a little bit for EU/UK customers BUT it will also avoid the fees and tariffs upon arrival and, I think, also speed up delivery of items.

 

If it happens, I will make an announcement on the website.  Thanks!

[spicyjack]

I just got done with installing a UAV board in my 130XE, and it's made a vast difference (for the better!).  Attached are the before/after shots; my 130XE before the upgrade had vertical bars across the screen in Mode 0, some perusing of the forums says the vertical bars are noise/interference from the DRAM.

 

Output path for the images in the pictures: 130XE Chroma/Luma out from monitor port -> Lotharek Atari cable with S-Video connector -> RetroTink 2x-Pro (scanline upscaler), S-Video input to HDMI output -> No-name 21" LCD panel via a HDMI to DVI adapter.

 

I think the RetroTink filter is set for the "smoothed" (two "Filter" button presses from default).

 

The 2nd picture, I didn't turn off the light over my workbench, so there's glare in the upper center of that image, try to ignore it.

 

I took pictures for almost every step of my install; I can share them here in this thread if there's interest, but I would do it over a few posts so I can show everything, and I don't want to be the person who sucks the air out of the room as it were.

Edited September 10, 2020 by spicyjack
Added picture of completed UAV install

[hueyjones70]

Where in this thread can I find the instructions for installing without using the 4050 socket?

[+DrVenkman]

3 hours ago, hueyjones70 said:

Where in this thread can I find the instructions for installing without using the 4050 socket?

I don't think you'll find any such explicit instructions since all A8 machines have a 4050 chip in the video circuit. I did see a guy on one of the A8 groups on Facebook who builds a cable similar to those provided with the U1MB to plug into the 4050 socket, then mount the UAV board itself elsewhere. 

 

The point being, if you can identify the signals you need elsewhere on the board, you can mount the UAV anywhere and just run wires, which is the basic approach you'd need for a 4-switch 2600 or 7800 install. 

[+MacRorie]

4 hours ago, hueyjones70 said:

Where in this thread can I find the instructions for installing without using the 4050 socket?

It was explicitly designed to be installed in the 4050 socket, so those instructions would be ancillary.  However, you can find the input points silkscreened on the board itself (and in the manual).  SO long as you can find the discrete signals on the console/computer you are working with, you can connect them to those points.  Instructions for doing so on the 2600 and the 7800 can be found in the manual.

[hueyjones70]

I The cable sounds like a good idea, I was concerned because it appears to me that the UAV makes contact with the resistor and capacitor wires in the 600XL and even if a layer of insulation is added it will eventually wear through.

[spicyjack]

12 hours ago, hueyjones70 said:

I The cable sounds like a good idea, I was concerned because it appears to me that the UAV makes contact with the resistor and capacitor wires in the 600XL and even if a layer of insulation is added it will eventually wear through.

I was looking at my 600XL the other day, if you used a 2nd DIP pin socket underneath the pin sockets that are soldered on to the UAV board, you would be able to clear the resistors on the 600XL board but still be able to fit underneath the RFI shield (if that is your preference).

 

In other words, stack DIP sockets underneath the UAV until you got the height you wanted.  If you use the machined DIP sockets or headers, you shouldn't have a problem with anything coming loose.

 

The UAV board will clear the capacitors below the 4050 socket and to the right of the 4050 socket.  The Board is about as narrow as the 4050 socket (so that takes care of the right cap), and has a cutout on the "bottom left" corner of the board to clear the bottom left cap.  Since the two caps are taken care of, you just need to worry about the resistors.

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by spicyjack
Added picture of 4050 socket and more info on the UAV board fitment

[hueyjones70]

Thanks for the pic.

[cwilbar]

18 hours ago, hueyjones70 said:

I The cable sounds like a good idea, I was concerned because it appears to me that the UAV makes contact with the resistor and capacitor wires in the 600XL and even if a layer of insulation is added it will eventually wear through.

I'd have to look at what I did, but I noticed this on my isntall (in a 600XL).  I can't recall if I stacked in an additional DIP socket, or I might have used different pin headers to have it get a bit more height when installed.

 

[ok1rp]

Hi,
 

Can I order a plug in latest one for an 800xl please?

 

Thanks,

 

Petr

[+MacRorie]

2 minutes ago, ok1rp said:

Hi,
 

Can I order a plug in latest one for an 800xl please?

 

Thanks,

 

Petr

Sure!  Here is the link:

 

https://thebrewingacademy.com/collections/ultimate-atari-video-uav/products/tba-ultimate-atari-video-uav-board-for-400-800-xl-xe?variant=23415813898340

 

[+Muddyfunster]

On 9/4/2020 at 5:00 PM, MacRorie said:

 

So, Rees Clissold has purchased a batch of the UAVs for resale and he is located in the UK!  I made sure he had some in stock and here is his webshop:

 

https://shop.ctrl-alt-rees.com/products/ultimate-atari-video-mod-for-2600-5200-7800-8-bit

 

It's not perfect, but it should avoid the tariffs.  And speaking of tariffs. . . I really wish I could help y'all out there.  The problem is I ship hundreds of packages every month and if I do it for one person, then I have to do it for everybody and then, well, I start to get nasty calls and letters from government authorities.  I would rather NOT get those.

 

However, I have started to give some thought to becoming a VAT-certified business.  IF I do that, then the prices will go up a little bit for EU/UK customers BUT it will also avoid the fees and tariffs upon arrival and, I think, also speed up delivery of items.

 

If it happens, I will make an announcement on the website.  Thanks!

Looking for a UAV for my (soon to be purchased) 7800. I just checked and unfortunately they are sold out on Rees's website.

 

I notice that you sell them through eBay. Would offering the global shipping program option be a problem? that way folks would pay the shipping and any duty upfront and prevent local orgs like Royal Mail gouging their handling fee and screwing up the VAT charges. It's not ideal but it removes some of the hassle.

[+MacRorie]

2 hours ago, Muddyfunster said:

Looking for a UAV for my (soon to be purchased) 7800. I just checked and unfortunately they are sold out on Rees's website.

 

I notice that you sell them through eBay. Would offering the global shipping program option be a problem? that way folks would pay the shipping and any duty upfront and prevent local orgs like Royal Mail gouging their handling fee and screwing up the VAT charges. It's not ideal but it removes some of the hassle.

Well, I added GSP to the eBay listing, but eBay is now charging a "Foreign transaction fee" (3%) on top of their final value fee (up to 15%) on top of their shipping fee (10%) and, of course, their listing fee, so the eBay prices went up a bit.  The prices on The Brewing Academy website stay the same.

 

HOWEVER COMMA I would check Rees' website again as he probably just got some in within the last two days.  It would probably save you a £ (definitely save you a $).

 

-M

[+Muddyfunster]

Good old eBay

 

[Heatvent]

On 5/21/2020 at 10:38 AM, rmzalbar said:

That did occur to me. I was wondering if Bryan might pop in and say "Oh dear, you seem to have a dry joint on a pre-amp bias pin.." or somesuch. I'll crack it open and take a good look.

 

I do also have two other UAVs destined for the A8s, but those are of the plugin type so there will be a bit of farting around getting one connected to the 2600.

rmzalbar, just wondering if you had any further progress on this issue. I am also getting wavy parts of the screen that look like the pics you posted along with audio noise (buzz).  The strange thing is if I connect the RF output of the 2600 to the cable input of the same TV, the noise goes away on the UAV composite connection and the picture looks great. If I switch to channel 3, the RF by itself actually looks great as well. There seems to be some kind of feedback / interference. I'm not an electrical technician and don't have scopes and such, just know enough to solder this in.  This mod is on an older circa-1978 light sixer. 

 

I followed the UAV instructions with the exception of lifting pin 6 on the TIA.  I have R213 removed (the instructions say to lift one end of R213 if the TIA is soldered so I think this should have the same effect).  Per the instructions I am picking up power on the left of R231 and color in on the right of R212.  The UAV is soldered to the top of the CD4050 chip with pin 1 cut off of the IC socket that was provided with the plugin version.

 

Maybe there is something I have done that is causing this feedback in the system but it seems like the board is likely working OK.  Anyway, not sure if you had further revelations on this issue.

 

Thanks!

Edited October 15, 2020 by Heatvent

[rmzalbar]

1 hour ago, Heatvent said:

rmzalbar, just wondering if you had any further progress on this issue. I am also getting wavy parts of the screen that look like the pics you posted along with audio noise (buzz).  The strange thing is if I connect the RF output of the 2600 to the cable input of the same TV, the noise goes away on the UAV composite connection and the picture looks great. If I switch to channel 3, the RF by itself actually looks great as well. There seems to be some kind of feedback / interference. I'm not an electrical technician and don't have scopes and such, just know enough to solder this in.  This mod is on an older circa-1978 light sixer. 

 

I followed the UAV instructions with the exception of lifting pin 6 on the TIA.  I have R213 removed (the instructions say to lift one end of R213 if the TIA is soldered so I think this should have the same effect).  Per the instructions I am picking up power on the left of R231 and color in on the right of R212.  The UAV is soldered to the top of the CD4050 chip with pin 1 cut off of the IC socket that was provided with the plugin version.

 

Maybe there is something I have done that is causing this feedback in the system but it seems like the board is likely working OK.  Anyway, not sure if you had further revelations on this issue.

 

Thanks!

No, I never solved it. Part of the problem is I don't have an oscilloscope any longer, so I can't dig in too deeply. On my end, I know I have a weak sync pulse. It's not dipping low enough, just barely below porch level. I'll get into it again one day. It may be that I need to remove the sync line from the 2600 internal circuitry, it may be too weak to serve both.

 

Yours sounds like it may be a grounding issue with the UAV, and so connecting the RF provides another path to the Atari ground. I don't think I've tried hooking up both at once, so I may try that and let you know. I do know however that my oscilloscope didn't show any help even though I was grounding it directly to the Atari's ground plane.  Whoops, I just remembered I was testing the video signal entirely at the opposite end of the cable at a 75-ohm terminator, so I *could* have a bad ground path through the UAV. Hard to see how, though; I soldered directly to the ground fill serving the shield on the PCB. Plus, the rest of the signal was mighty strong. A little too strong, really.

Edited October 15, 2020 by rmzalbar

[Heatvent]

Thanks, I will look into that.  I soldered to the top of the CD4050 as mentioned. Probably not the best soldering either since there are other components close by that got in the way.  I am thinking I will try grounding elsewhere to test.  If it is ground (or even if it isn't), I was thinking of redoing my mounting since my initial install was a bit kludgy given the limited access to the CD4050 legs.  It seems like the UAV ultimately connects to the pins on the TIA chip so not sure the differences between this board and the Ben Heck Drop In board, but the Heck board seems to be a much better approach towards installation where it plugs into the TIA socket and then the TIA mounts on top of the board.  Easy peasy and less room for bad soldering .  Anyway, connecting the ground pad on the UAV to another ground point should be simple enough to troubleshoot.