Theoryman Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Looking to order one to fit the 1088XEL... Theory -- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc13 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 I installed the UAV in a L6 2600 (replaced the 4050) following the pics in post #297 and while the video looked good, I had trouble with the joystick fire buttons. Since the buttons use pins 9 and 10 (P1) and 6 and 7 (P2) of the CD4050 is there something else I should do to make them work correctly? My symptoms were that fire would work for a few seconds, then not work, and then start working again. I'm thinking about just wiring it in directly and leaving the 4050 in place unless I missed something on the install. Thanks - John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 I installed the UAV in a L6 2600 (replaced the 4050) following the pics in post #297 and while the video looked good, I had trouble with the joystick fire buttons. Since the buttons use pins 9 and 10 (P1) and 6 and 7 (P2) of the CD4050 is there something else I should do to make them work correctly? My symptoms were that fire would work for a few seconds, then not work, and then start working again. I'm thinking about just wiring it in directly and leaving the 4050 in place unless I missed something on the install. Thanks - John So that post Bryan wrote: 2600 6-Switch Another surprise! First time testing in a 6-SW VCS. You cannot use the power as it comes from the 4050 socket. There's a strange drop-down circuit that prevents UAV from working. You must cut the split pad for 5V and run a power wire to the board as shown. I also show where to pick up the color signal, and pin 6 must be lifted from the TIA socket. Did you remember to lift pin 6 on TIA and run separate power lines? Maybe Bryan can offer some insight. If you do decide to wire it directly, I've got a Rev C board inside one of my 4-Switch 2600's where direct wiring is the only option - works great and gives a fantastic image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 I installed the UAV in a L6 2600 (replaced the 4050) following the pics in post #297 and while the video looked good, I had trouble with the joystick fire buttons. Since the buttons use pins 9 and 10 (P1) and 6 and 7 (P2) of the CD4050 is there something else I should do to make them work correctly? My symptoms were that fire would work for a few seconds, then not work, and then start working again. I'm thinking about just wiring it in directly and leaving the 4050 in place unless I missed something on the install. Thanks - John I'm out of town at the moment, but YIKES! I missed that part. The 4050 must stay in. I'll revisit this in the coming week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seastalker Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) I should add that before proceeding, I "undid" the easy 3 step S-video hack (never had a C-56, removed underneath wire, and replaced C-54): Pix provided: I rewired to match the recent posts, and added a 5v power wire to the capacitor+ near the power jack. I'm still in B+W and really think the culprit was when I touched and untouched the right leg of C-56 to its solder joint while plugged in weeks ago. The color was gone with leg removed and there when put back... temporarily (even the replacement doesn't work. If I shorted something, is it fixable? Could the actual DIN be bad? I'm also looking to see if extra solder got between pin 5 (chroma) and Pin 3 (Audio) and if bridged that would create the b+w. [EDIT- I did take the pix BEFORE cleaning up the flux paste - don't worry!] Edited July 15, 2017 by seastalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seastalker Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Update 2: no solder bridging the din connectors. Tested with alt video cables in case mine was bad; standard composite yellow rca jack on Dell monitor shows in b&w AND flashes in and out like the monitor is trying to retain the signal. I also tried my scart cable to upscaler - HDMI out on LED TV. Black and white with fuzzier video and some hint of color. Tried even switching out the NTSC to PAL ANTIC and got sharper B&W. ReaLLY confused... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc13 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 So that post Bryan wrote: Did you remember to lift pin 6 on TIA and run separate power lines? Maybe Bryan can offer some insight. If you do decide to wire it directly, I've got a Rev C board inside one of my 4-Switch 2600's where direct wiring is the only option - works great and gives a fantastic image. I ended up direct wiring it and leaving the 4050 in place, but it seems like it might be a little over driven. I've got some ghosting that I need to work on. Is there an easy way to adjust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc13 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 I'm pretty sure I've got this thing wired right, but the picture seems washed out (but crystal clear) on s-video and composite has a good bit of ghosting. Re-connecting pin 6 on the TIA brings the color up for a second, but then goes completely away. Also, the trim pot doesn't seem to do anything, but to be honest, I'm not sure what it's supposed to do. I thought I saw a pic of a 6 switch direct wired, but I can't find it now, so if anyone has a pic of the connection points for a L6'er I'd appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 I thought I saw a pic of a 6 switch direct wired, but I can't find it now, so if anyone has a pic of the connection points for a L6'er I'd appreciate it. If you pull all the signals straight from the TIA or the pads underneath, you should have no issues getting a good, strong color signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc13 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) Ok, so can I get an opinion on whether this looks normal. Three pics below, all composite but with various states of the color line. First one is normal wiring with color attached where Bryan showed it in his recent posting, and the bottom left corner shows what I'm talking about. The second pic is with the same wiring, but with the color/bw switch on b/w - still a little red coming through in the same spots. The third is with the UAV color line tied to ground. The fourth one may show what's happening a little better - zoom on the bridge and where the red overlays the blue, it seems to be a little late being drawn. EDIT: Sorry for the rotated photos - they looked fine on the PC??? Edited July 16, 2017 by jc13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Pardon the photos - for some reason my iPhone has a harder time capturing photos from my Commdore 1702 than from my prior CRT without shutter artifacts. Anyway, it looks to me like your flatscreen is boosting saturation too much or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc13 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Yeah - yours looks nice! It's actually a CRT, not a flatscreen, but I agree, something's not quite right. I though I saw something Bryan posted about lifting one leg of a mixing cap, but the posts a spread over several threads and I can't seem to get back to the ones that seem relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Hmm ... where are you picking up the video signals? On my Woody here I just grabbed them from the TIA directly - seemed the best way to get the unadulterated signals straight from the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc13 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) They are on the resistors that are tied to the TIA pins. I referenced another photo I saw on the forum and then verified continuity. Disregard what looks like a solder problem at R212 with the color line - I de-soldered it while testing. I didn't lift any of the pins or try to remove the RF modulator since it didn't seem to be needed with this kit and I was planning to just plug it in until I had the problem with the fire buttons. Do you have the RF modulator removed? Edited July 16, 2017 by jc13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 They are on the resistors that are tied to the TIA pins. I referenced another photo I saw on the forum and then verified continuity and disregard what looks like a solder problem at R212 with the color line - I de-soldered it while testing. I didn't lift any of the pins or try to remove the RF modulator since it didn't seem to be needed with this kit and I was planning to just plug it in until I had the problem with the fire buttons. Do you have the RF modulator removed? No, but I did clip the pins for it and bent them out of the way. I didn't want to take the time to remove it the day I installed, and I wanted a convenient place for power and ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 Ok, so can I get an opinion on whether this looks normal. Three pics below, all composite but with various states of the color line. First one is normal wiring with color attached where Bryan showed it in his recent posting, and the bottom left corner shows what I'm talking about. The second pic is with the same wiring, but with the color/bw switch on b/w - still a little red coming through in the same spots. The third is with the UAV color line tied to ground. The fourth one may show what's happening a little better - zoom on the bridge and where the red overlays the blue, it seems to be a little late being drawn. EDIT: Sorry for the rotated photos - they looked fine on the PC??? Lift one end of R213 (680 ohms) and the color should clear up. It's back in some of the older posts so I know it's hard to find: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/246613-new-video-upgrade-coming-soon/?p=3413565 The original 6-switch runs the triggers through the 4050 and I originally missed that fact (I also disagree with running non-video signals through the chip making your video!). None of the other versions of the 2600 do this. The easy solution is to put input protection resistors across 4050 socket pins 6 - 7 and 9 - 10 like the 4-switch does. Something like 220-330 ohms should work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc13 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) I saw that one and I have pin 6 on the TIA lifted out of the socket. That accomplishes the same thing right? Edited July 17, 2017 by jc13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 I saw that one and I have pin 6 on the TIA lifted out of the socket. That accomplishes the same thing right? No, unfortunately you still need the 1K pull-up on the board or color doesn't work so you have to lift the other resistor. You want to keep the green resistor and eliminate the red one: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc13 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 No, unfortunately you still need the 1K pull-up on the board or color doesn't work so you have to lift the other resistor. You want to keep the green resistor and eliminate the red one: Well I gave that a shot and it didn't change anything, but I'm still not sure why it would have. I'm not understanding what the difference between lifting pin 6 or lifting on end of the 680 resistor would be. I'm afraid it doesn't matter anyway at this point because something went south while I was enjoying a little Space Invaders I lost the video out and the board was really hot. RF still works, but I think my UAV is dead. I was thinking of a way to keep the 4050 in circuit without having to solder onto the chip itself, and I think if you put the jumper block facing down on the UAV, you could use a wire wrap socket (with long leads) instead of the header pins and they would plug into the original CD4050 socket and let you put the CD4050 on top of the UAV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 Well I gave that a shot and it didn't change anything, but I'm still not sure why it would have. I'm not understanding what the difference between lifting pin 6 or lifting on end of the 680 resistor would be. I'm afraid it doesn't matter anyway at this point because something went south while I was enjoying a little Space Invaders I lost the video out and the board was really hot. RF still works, but I think my UAV is dead. I was thinking of a way to keep the 4050 in circuit without having to solder onto the chip itself, and I think if you put the jumper block facing down on the UAV, you could use a wire wrap socket (with long leads) instead of the header pins and they would plug into the original CD4050 socket and let you put the CD4050 on top of the UAV. If you'd like to send me the logic board, I'll take a look at it and get it working for you. The difference is this: The Color pin is open collector and will not swing unless it's pulled up by the 1K resistor. The Blank output tied to the 680 ohm resistor is pulled low during the colorburst and causes the color signal to not reach proper logic levels to drive the UAV. Only some 2600 versions have this circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc13 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 If you'd like to send me the logic board, I'll take a look at it and get it working for you. The difference is this: The Color pin is open collector and will not swing unless it's pulled up by the 1K resistor. The Blank output tied to the 680 ohm resistor is pulled low during the colorburst and causes the color signal to not reach proper logic levels to drive the UAV. Only some 2600 versions have this circuit. I'd appreciate that - if you'll PM your address I'll get it back to you. It may not be in too bad shape - I didn't see any smoke. Regarding my color bleeding issue, I'm going to try to pull the TIA from another console to see if I can get that cleared up since it's there even in the RF output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Just wanted to reiterate how good UAV is after working on a UAV 800XL over the weekend. What impresses me most is the character definition, with "fat" verticals reminiscent of VBXE RGB. Best Y/C output I have seen, hands down. Thanks again Bryan. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 UAV Rev.D Atari 800XL S-Video to Framemeister to DLP 1080p LED light XGIMI H1 Projector. Picture of 7 foot diagonal image. (Okay is is a little less than 7 feet due to 4:3 image.) Click and view full image to see full detail and no moiré. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 UAV Rev.D Atari 800XL S-Video to Framemeister to DLP 1080p LED light XGIMI H1 Projector. Pictures of 7 foot diagonal image. (Okay is is a little less than 7 feet due to 4:3 image.) Hmm.. something is wrong with GTIA mode 9. It looks like LUM1 isn't getting through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Hmm.. something is wrong with GTIA mode 9. It looks like LUM1 isn't getting through. Do you mean the left and right sides of the image? That overscan area can be cropped out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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