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The UAV Rev. D Video Upgrade Thread

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1 hour ago, DrVenkman said:

"approaches" is not the same as "achieving the same accuracy."

 

 

1 hour ago, tane said:

 

The manual says the following in the number 6:

 

1855048976_UAVTBA.thumb.png.efcaf40670e1331febd43fe8ccc4677d.png

 

 

 

A comparison would be good. Here there are not many people using a 65XE, mostly are using XL. In fact, my photos are the first for a 65XE.

I'll make further tests with the ground in different locations.

 

 

As the person who wrote that, I wholeheartedly concur:  approaches is in no way whatsoever meant to imply that it is the same as s-video.  At the end of the day, composite video is composite video.  It will never be the same as s-video.  It is a different signal.

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It might have been better to suggest that UAV composite approaches the quality of stock s-video. Indeed, it's unclear whether that's what it means, or whether the implication is that the UAV s-video signal isn't significantly better than the composite signal.

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5 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

It might have been better to suggest that UAV composite approaches the quality of stock s-video. Indeed, it's unclear whether that's what it means, or whether the implication is that the UAV s-video signal isn't significantly better than the composite signal.

Point taken.  Always happy to make improvements.

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On 11/9/2019 at 7:57 PM, Stephen said:

I'll echo what the others have said above.  You'll never get s-video results from composite, it's just not possible.  The composite may be able to show some improvements, but separate Y/C is in another league.

 

Makes sense.

 

2105290332_S-VideotoCompositeVideo.gif.53f2850afa827502795c81fbdcfb1149.gif

 

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I found this s-video pinout, and it suggests how to wiring a component video. At least the luma is the same, but I'm surprised that no one has commented on the wiring to component video, maybe the signal differences are not the same and it will not work, but if it does, the quality should be better than the composite on moderns TVs with component input.

 

1319316215_S-VideotoComponentVideo.png.4251eb37fe89032db578ffa4715b8191.png

 

 

 

 

WireTypes.thumb.gif.078c24a9ddceb38567bacedeac45ae49.gif

 

 

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1 hour ago, tane said:

but I'm surprised that no one has commented on the wiring to component video

That’s because the UAV does not produce component video. As noted in this very thread many dozens of times, the board provides composite, chroma and luma. 

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1 hour ago, tane said:

I found this s-video pinout, and it suggests how to wiring a component video

That's surprising, since Component Video is totally incompatible with the s-video (chroma/luma) signal. Link?

 

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29 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

That's surprising, since Component Video is totally incompatible with the s-video (chroma/luma) signal. Link?

 

I don't know about the signal, but when you see people selling s-video-component adapters, like this, it really suggests that is possible.

Edit: in the title says component, then in description: composite.

 

cable.jpg.bf3f629150a2dfbfb4a614db37d2e998.jpg

 

Edited by tane

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4 minutes ago, tane said:

I don't know about the signal, but when you see people selling s-video-component adapters, like this, it really suggests that is possible.

 

cable.jpg.bf3f629150a2dfbfb4a614db37d2e998.jpg

 

That's not a standard s-video plug.  Only time I have seen a cable like that is for late 90s laptops that did TV out.

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If you want component video, ask Simius if he still produces and sells the older revision 'Sophia' video boards. They output 15KHz RGB or Component depending on a jumper setting (the newer Rev. C boards output DVI). Otherwise forget component and buy yourself a TV, monitor or some sort of video upscaler which accepts s-video if composite video doesn't cut it for you.

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I have this old 800XL motherboard (it's actually my original Atari from '85) and it has all of the video circuitry removed (i.e. everything that connects to lum0-3/color/csync) in one way or the other.

Question is, what do I have to restore to use a UAV in the CD4050 socket? I suppose R41-R45 (the five pull-ups) need to be placed back. Anything more?

 

I'm about to build this into a new casing, and want it to have video-out :)

 

Edit: the casing: https://www.plexilaser.de/Acrylgehaeuse-fuer-ATARI-800XL-Teilesatz

 

This is going to be my main machine for FujiNet development.

 

Edited by ivop

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Does anyone know if the Super Video 2.1 modifications for 800XL and 1200XL will interfere with a new UAV installation? Should these modifications be reversed first?

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2 hours ago, rmzalbar said:

Does anyone know if the Super Video 2.1 modifications for 800XL and 1200XL will interfere with a new UAV installation? Should these modifications be reversed first?

There might be a slight improvement in sharpness of text edges (very square), but I didn't see too much improvement over the ClearPic2002 which is similar to the Super Video 2.1.  

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7 hours ago, rmzalbar said:

Does anyone know if the Super Video 2.1 modifications for 800XL and 1200XL will interfere with a new UAV installation? Should these modifications be reversed first?

The SV 2.1 does not interfere with the UAV. The UAV bypasses all of the SV2.1 circuitry.  I am pretty certain that this is true because I did a SV 2.1 on a 600XL and totally screwed it up, I wasn't able to get any video at all and rather than try to find my mistakes I just installed a UAV-D and the video was great.

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21 hours ago, ACML said:

There might be a slight improvement in sharpness of text edges (very square), but I didn't see too much improvement over the ClearPic2002 which is similar to the Super Video 2.1.  

16 hours ago, hueyjones70 said:

The SV 2.1 does not interfere with the UAV. The UAV bypasses all of the SV2.1 circuitry.  I am pretty certain that this is true because I did a SV 2.1 on a 600XL and totally screwed it up, I wasn't able to get any video at all and rather than try to find my mistakes I just installed a UAV-D and the video was great.

I'm getting good video for both my 1200XL and 800XL on SV2.1, but I would like to install UAV to gain control of the artifact colors. I guess I should take a good look at the manual to see where it patches in.

Edited by rmzalbar

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On 1/2/2020 at 10:55 AM, ivop said:

I have this old 800XL motherboard (it's actually my original Atari from '85) and it has all of the video circuitry removed (i.e. everything that connects to lum0-3/color/csync) in one way or the other.

Question is, what do I have to restore to use a UAV in the CD4050 socket? I suppose R41-R45 (the five pull-ups) need to be placed back. Anything more?

 

I'm about to build this into a new casing, and want it to have video-out :)

 

Edit: the casing: https://www.plexilaser.de/Acrylgehaeuse-fuer-ATARI-800XL-Teilesatz

 

This is going to be my main machine for FujiNet development.

 

@ivop Did you get the clear case? This looks awesome!

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13 hours ago, 777ismyname said:

@ivop Did you get the clear case? This looks awesome!

Yes, I have the case and built it completely. Had to wiggle/bend the keyboard "flaps" with the screw holes a bit to make it fit, but now it fits :) But, the board has no GTIA and video-out circuitry :)

 

Tried to fix the GTIA a few days ago. One pin was completely broken off and I had seen Mr. Atari dremel its way back to the soldering pads and solder a new pin to it, but I failed to replicate that. Probably grinded through the pin, too :)

 

But I have spare GTIAs, so that's no problem. Just have to put back the pull-ups and I should be good to go again with UAV. Can post pictures when it's all done.

 

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43 minutes ago, ivop said:

Tried to fix the GTIA a few days ago. One pin was completely broken off and I had seen Mr. Atari dremel its way back to the soldering pads and solder a new pin to it, but I failed to replicate that. Probably grinded through the pin, too :)

Look up pictures of 'IC DIP lead frame' to get an idea of how much leeway you have when digging for a place to solder. You can actually do quite a bit of grinding without much fear, especially if it's further from the center. The leads themselves are a flat plate, so you should try to get some surface area either on top or on bottom exposed, rather than the snapped-off edge.

 

 

27664808502_24a5163659_b.jpg

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3 minutes ago, rmzalbar said:

Look up pictures of 'IC DIP lead frame' to get an idea of how much leeway you have when digging for a place to solder. You can actually do quite a bit of grinding without much fear, especially if it's further from the center. The leads themselves are a flat plate, so you should try to get some surface area either on top or on bottom exposed, rather than the snapped-off edge.

 

 

27664808502_24a5163659_b.jpg

Thanks. I have done some "on my balcony" decapping a few years ago, so I was aware of the underlying leads. Sadly, it was pin 31 what snapped off and there's not much leeway when trying to find the pad back in the plastic. Perhaps I even grinded through adjacent pins already? You need a pretty decent routing bit to get through the plastic, which easily grinds through metal, too. Maybe I should have grinded only half way and used acid to etch all the way to the metal, like with decapping, but just at the edge. I'll try that next time I have a snapped off pin :)

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I am trying to install the UAV and the instructions mention lifting the chroma mixing cap.  Where is this located?  Thanks!

Edited by shear_xear

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8 minutes ago, shear_xear said:

I am trying to install the UAV on a 4 switch 2600 and I can’t seem to find a good guide for which pins each output goes to.  I believe I have everything correct except for the color in line.  In the only picture I have found there is no way to make out where this leads to.  It almost looks like it runs to the bottom of the board.  Does anyone know where this pulls color from (or if that runs to pin 9 on the TIA, where does the luma 3 line go)?  Thanks !

Sorry about that.  The pictures in the manual are the best I could find on AA (that doesn't mean there aren't better ones here, just I could not find them).  As soon as I am able, I will put better pictures/instructions in there.  IN FACT, if anyone has pictures/step by step guide that they think can help, I am happy to include them in the manual with proper attribution!

 

Thanks!

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I was able to get it all sorted out and everything looks fantastic, but the one picture is definitely tough to use as a guide (for at least pins 7 thru 9). 

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46 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

The 800XL instructions do appear to have the wiring for composite and luma swapped at the motherboard end.

Okay, so L7 and L9 are mislabelled in the instructions?

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