New Hardware: Atari 400/800 Super Color CPU Card

[jamm]

8 minutes ago, COBRAIP said:

I'm out of work now because of this Virus going around so have plenty of time on my hands and was going through my Atari stuff and noticed that none of my 400's had a modified Video/Audio card.  I would very much like to be in the group that has one of these fine SCCC mods on my 400.  I'm sure that my Atari would love it.  What do I have to do to get a Gold card?

 

Thanks.

See tf_hh's signature line four messages up.

[+tf_hh]

1 hour ago, COBRAIP said:

I'm out of work now because of this Virus going around so have plenty of time on my hands and was going through my Atari stuff and noticed that none of my 400's had a modified Video/Audio card.  I would very much like to be in the group that has one of these fine SCCC mods on my 400.  I'm sure that my Atari would love it.  What do I have to do to get a Gold card?

 

Thanks for your interest! Shipping goods across the planet isn´t easy these days. And that´s ok - life is much more important. For all. Anywhere. I hope that mankind will master this challenge in the best possible way.

 

Anyway, because I think that the shipping restrictions will be existing for several months, there´s an alternative way. I can collect the orders for, let´s say, 4-6 weeks from all U.S. residents and sent one expensive, but possible parcel to one of the order people. For example, such a insured and tracked parcel with the needed "Premium" option is charged with 53 Euros. When 5 people order something, it´s 10.60 Euros each. Plus the 8.30 USD (??? - Need help here!) for a flat 2nd day USPS small parcel to the final destination. Both together is not more expensive than the standard 20 Euros I´ve to charge for a Sys-Check (for example).

 

If more orders can be put in this one parcel, it would be cheaper for all. The price of 53 Euros is valid up to 5kg weight. But I must have a well-known member of the community here as my "remote hands" in the U.S.

 

Will update tomorrow my PDF file with this idea.

 

Stay healthy!

 

[+DrVenkman]

I wonder if a group buy like this is something @MacRorie could consider? He already almost sort of a one-stop shop for a lot of great Atari items here in the US. 

[leech]

7 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

I wonder if a group buy like this is something @MacRorie could consider? He already almost sort of a one-stop shop for a lot of great Atari items here in the US. 

Now that I have an incognito in one of my 800s, I definitely want one of these, so this is a great idea.  I actually would probably order a second one to clean up the video in my 'stock' 800.

[+tf_hh]

Hi,

 

I found a way for nearly the same shipping costs than before together with Manterola. So if somebody in the U.S. want to have any of my projects, please read page 4 of my info PDF, which is linked in my signature. Thanks.

 

Current orders: 3

 

Jurgen

 

[+tf_hh]

Hi,

 

sorry for publishing this info in more than one thread. Normally I won´t do that, but in case of the special situation I hope it´s ok - from the past I know that several users watching only a few threads in general.

 

Last night I got the 5.th order, so the "big parcel" will be possible. Shipping out will be done next Wednesday (April the 15.th) due to the easter holidays here.

 

If anybody want to have something from my projects, it´s a good idea to count in now - I can´t estimate, when the next omnibus-order is possible.

 

Shipping costs currently for each purchaser is 20 Euros than usually. If I got some more orders until Wednesday, shipping costs overall will decrease and I sent the overpaid money back.

 

Stay healthy, Jurgen

 

[leech]

On 4/9/2020 at 5:44 AM, tf_hh said:

Hi,

 

I found a way for nearly the same shipping costs than before together with Manterola. So if somebody in the U.S. want to have any of my projects, please read page 4 of my info PDF, which is linked in my signature. Thanks.

 

Current orders: 3

 

Jurgen

 

Add an SCCC in there for me?

[+tf_hh]

2 minutes ago, leech said:

Add an SCCC in there for me?

PN sent!

[leech]

Any new news on this front?  Seems you had an order for 6, just curious as I was going to open the 800 up again soon to put the ATR swap button in there, and while I'm digging around inside, may as well install this too

[+tf_hh]

15 hours ago, leech said:

Any new news on this front?  Seems you had an order for 6, just curious as I was going to open the 800 up again soon to put the ATR swap button in there, and while I'm digging around inside, may as well install this too

 

The omnibus-order´s big parcel has reached the territory of the USA at 05/11. It´s currently transported within the USPS network to Manterola. You and the other members will get an email when I have new infos. The delay is based on the international slow-down of all carrier networks due to Covid-19.

 

[retrobits]

OMNIBUS BIG PARCEL!!!  Thanks for the update

[leech]

2 hours ago, retrobits said:

OMNIBUS BIG PARCEL!!!  Thanks for the update

That is just a single, properly packaged 800, right?

[+DrVenkman]

3 minutes ago, leech said:

That is just a single, properly packaged 800, right?

Right. With the PSU brick shipped in a separate box!

 

[mimo]

9 hours ago, leech said:

That is just a single, properly packaged 800, right?

That's how my boxed 1200xl arrived ?

[+Spancho]

I plan to add a PokeyMAX stereo to my 400.

My question now is should I solder the audio cables from SCCC board to the PokeyMAX PCB or should I disconnect the three cables completely and wire audio L/R directly from PokeyMAX to the monitor socket?

In the last case I think I need to leave the audio socket on SCCC as well disconnected.

 

Am I right that the audio output from PokeyMAX can be directly connected to the monitor socket with the two 10uF capacitors outlined in the documentation?

Can I repurpose pin 2 of the DIN socket (GND) for the second audio channel as the shiedlding already carries GND?

I know that I then will need to build me my own adapter from DIN 5 to S-Video, Stereo Chinch and Comp. Video.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

[+tf_hh]

On 6/2/2020 at 10:09 PM, Spancho said:

I plan to add a PokeyMAX stereo to my 400.

My question now is should I solder the audio cables from SCCC board to the PokeyMAX PCB or should I disconnect the three cables completely and wire audio L/R directly from PokeyMAX to the monitor socket?

In the last case I think I need to leave the audio socket on SCCC as well disconnected.

 

Am I right that the audio output from PokeyMAX can be directly connected to the monitor socket with the two 10uF capacitors outlined in the documentation?

Can I repurpose pin 2 of the DIN socket (GND) for the second audio channel as the shiedlding already carries GND?

I know that I then will need to build me my own adapter from DIN 5 to S-Video, Stereo Chinch and Comp. Video.

 

The mini amplifier on the SCCC supports only Mono, so better don´t use it. Please short-circuit all three terminals at the SCCC audio input to prevent the amplifier from floating.

 

Regarding POKEY-Max it´s the best way to use a 2nd cable. Such things with usage of pre-defined pins, specially used for power supply, is never a good idea and can end up in destruction of parts. At one time you don´t remember it, plug the wrong cable or adapter and.... 50-100 USD blown away.  So don´t do this, the 400 has enough possibilities to outbreak a 2nd cable without the need for drilling the case etc., only a drill in the metal cage, but this is absolute no problem at all.

 

[Krenath]

Just got my SCCC board today and so far installation has been easy and the result is  great!   Absolutely sharp pixels even on the cheap s-video-to-hdmi convertor I'm currently using. (RetroTink and Hercules svideo cable are on the way). Absolutely no trace of noise lines in the output. 

 

First thing I learned is that mixing up the HALT and RDY lines from the Incognito is...  interesting.  It works until it suddenly doesn't. So don't do that.  
 

I decided to make things a little easier on myself for any future opening of the case and used some right-angle header pins and a two-pin dupont socket for the Incognito wires.  It definitely makes life nicer. 

 

I am considering finding a way to wire up the S-Video out cable to the existing onboard S-Video connector instead of running a cable out the back.  Tracing out where the S-Video traces go, I may be able to connect the SCCC video lines and lift a few resistors to isolate from any remaining onboard video.
 

If I'm really lucky, I might be able to do it entirely inside the metal shield, which would be ideal.  I really like the idea of having all the upgrades working while externally looking unmodified and internally having no changes I can't reverse in a few minutes with a soldering iron if I wanted. 
 

(Yes, I labelled my ICs with a label printer.  I'm tired of trying to read microscopic, faded gray text on a black IC)

 

Overall, I highly recommend this upgrade even if people constantly say that stock 800 S-Video is the best already.  It gets much. better.  

[BillC]

5 hours ago, Krenath said:

I am considering finding a way to wire up the S-Video out cable to the existing onboard S-Video connector instead of running a cable out the back.  Tracing out where the S-Video traces go, I may be able to connect the SCCC video lines and lift a few resistors to isolate from any remaining onboard video.

I have attached a cropped schematic of the 800 video circuit with these locations marked.

The resistor in the red box is the luma output.

The resistor/inductor in the yellow box are the chroma output.

 

 

There are errors in the Sobola schematics but I confirmed this with the Sam's Computerfacts manual, available from Atarimania.

http://www.atarimania.com/documents/Sams_Computer_facts_Atari_800.pdf

This manual also contains an 800 PCB image with a grid overlay, grid locations of the individual components are listed on the preceding page

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by BillC

[+slx]

On 2/18/2021 at 3:44 AM, Krenath said:

Overall, I highly recommend this upgrade even if people constantly say that stock 800 S-Video is the best already.  It gets much. better.  

 

Absolutely. Have it in a 400 and currently waiting for version 2 to use in an 800.

[Krenath]

The one thing that I find confusing and annoying about this mod is that it drastically changes the artifact colors when viewed in composite mode.  

On the same monitor with the same machine, the original composite output  would show blue and green as artifact colors.  Games like Ultima III: Exodus used those colors to create blue water and green plants.

With the Super Color CPU Card, those colors change to green water and red plants.  And it doesn't seem like any amount of adjustment to the pots on the card or the Inverse Color jumper can get it back to the original colors.    It makes games I've played for years look ...wrong.  

Everything else about it is incredible.  in S-Video mode, everything is sharp and clean like I've wished for since 1982.  Although games like Ultima III end up entirely in monochrome since S-Video doesn't have artifact colors.
 

[leech]

25 minutes ago, Krenath said:

The one thing that I find confusing and annoying about this mod is that it drastically changes the artifact colors when viewed in composite mode.  

On the same monitor with the same machine, the original composite output  would show blue and green as artifact colors.  Games like Ultima III: Exodus used those colors to create blue water and green plants.

With the Super Color CPU Card, those colors change to green water and red plants.  And it doesn't seem like any amount of adjustment to the pots on the card or the Inverse Color jumper can get it back to the original colors.    It makes games I've played for years look ...wrong.  

Everything else about it is incredible.  in S-Video mode, everything is sharp and clean like I've wished for since 1982.  Although games like Ultima III end up entirely in monochrome since S-Video doesn't have artifact colors.
 

Try pressing Control-X on bootup to change color pallette.  It works for Ultima IV, not sure about 3.

 

I specifically refuse to use S-Video for most things due to lack of artifacting.  What we need to get over this limitation is for some mega skilled coders to rebuild the games using better graphic modes somehow.  Usually they have been bad Apple II ports that cause this.  At least from my understanding, as the Atari can definitely display more colors without it. 

Though I have a VBXE so really would love an upgraded version ha

Edited February 19, 2021 by leech

[+tf_hh]

45 minutes ago, Krenath said:

The one thing that I find confusing and annoying about this mod is that it drastically changes the artifact colors when viewed in composite mode. 

 

Therefor is the "Delay Pot" (the blue trim pot on the SCCC PCB). This is also found on any UAV PCB, of course. With this pot you can change artifact colors in CVBS mode. In some circumstances it´s not possible to match the 100% exact colors like with the genuine video circuit, but mostly it´s possible. Of course I didn´t have much NTSC experience...

 

[ivop]

1 hour ago, tf_hh said:

Of course I didn´t have much NTSC experience...

Didn't they call it Never The Same Color back in the day?

 

Sorry, I'll show myself out.

[+Stephen]

6 minutes ago, ivop said:

Didn't they call it Never The Same Color back in the day?

 

Sorry, I'll show myself out.

I was beyond shocked to learn that PAL TVs don't have a "tint" knob.  What an amazing concept - the devices actually carry the colour info properly, rather than relying on an analog potentiometer that anyone can adjust.

[Krenath]

3 hours ago, tf_hh said:

 

Therefor is the "Delay Pot" (the blue trim pot on the SCCC PCB). This is also found on any UAV PCB, of course. With this pot you can change artifact colors in CVBS mode. In some circumstances it´s not possible to match the 100% exact colors like with the genuine video circuit, but mostly it´s possible. Of course I didn´t have much NTSC experience...

 

And I tested every part of the range of this pot, but nowhere in its range did it come even close to the original blue/green artifact colors.   

At the far left end of the delay pot's range, it's purple and green (or green and purple with the color inverter jumper in place) with some of the fine lines in the UAV.XEX test disappearing.  I get nearly identical results with the PAL/NTSC jumper moved to the PAL setting.

At the far right end of its range, it's red and cyan.  With the color inverting jumper in place, at least the cyan is somewhat bluish, but the red is way off from the original green.

If I remove the Super Color CPU Card and put my original CPU card in place, the artifact colors are blue and green on the same monitor with the same cable and same SVideo-to-HDMI adaptor.

Could it be that this delay pot doesn't have enough range for approximating the original artifact colors? 
 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Krenath