New 3DO RGB Mod Possibility.

[the_crayon_king]

@Taijigamer

Something like the CH7035B could work for HDMI but there are few other ICs (Chrontel, Analog. TI, etc) the question would be whether it will support such a low input resolution.

Most seem to max out around 3.3v inputs ADV7125 was the exception to that so maybe they would have something for 24bit RGB888 to HDMI that can take 5V.

 

I will finish the board design I have then go back and implement that LDO. Thanks I really couldn't find one.

Those files could help but they are locked behind a subscription. Ill see if I cant find the files named on other sites.

You could make something like the OSSC with those RGB to HDMI encoders. I really doubt the end result would be nearly as good as the OSSC but it would probably be a lot cheaper.

I think its best to convert these signals in the purest way possible and then let something like the OSSC or XRGB do all the heavy lifting.

 

@trapexit

Interpolation huh. That could possibly damage the pixel sharpness quite a bit. Then again it could be desirable on other games idk.

Hopefully it can be turned on/off. I'm trying to figure out what it will do by default so 320x240 or 320x480 will be scaled to what exactly ?

I was just going to hook it up and see really. Picture centering is the forefront problem that the CH7025 hopefully solves (so interpolation may end up being an unavoidable trade off)

 

What I am working on is here:

https://easyeda.com/account/project?project=7d357ff9eabf4133a5fc697150d1ab88

 

Mostly trying to reroute alot of stuff. This will be a test board I will subtract components after I see if this even works.

Board is about 2.55x 1.8 inches. I would describe it as bloated.

Edited April 20, 2018 by the_crayon_king

[trapexit]

It's more complicated than a simple interpolation.

 

https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/trapexit/3DO-information/blob/master/software/sdk/3DO%20Online%20Developer%20Documentation/ppgfldr/ggsfldr/gpgfldr/2gpgf.html

[the_crayon_king]

It's more complicated than a simple interpolation.

 

https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/trapexit/3DO-information/blob/master/software/sdk/3DO%20Online%20Developer%20Documentation/ppgfldr/ggsfldr/gpgfldr/2gpgf.html

 

That link seems to be about the internal interpolation of the 3DO correct ?

Im referencing the external scaling that the CH7025 uses which I can't find specific information about.

 

I see you have alot of good info on that github. Do perhaps you know of a better solution than going about RGB888 to analog RGB with a CH7025 (keeping in mind the centering issues) ?

[trapexit]

Can't help there. Given there are some timing and block diagrams in the patents figured it might be of use.

[geodeath]

Hi all,

 

I have been following this thread lurking for a long time, as i want to rgb mod my 3do(s). Otaku's store offering has not been sold for a long time now but i can see that they are open and selling it again, version 2.1 this time.

 

http://www.otakus-store.net/en/all-our-modding-kits/444-1137-3do-rgb-modding-kit-for-fz-1-fz-10-sanyo-try-panasonic-goldstar-mod.html#/202-kit_3do_rgb-board_only

 

Can somebody tell me (as i have seen comments where people complain about it) if this is a good solution or not? If not, are there any other solutions, or should i still wait until people in this thread make a new, better option?

 

Thanks!

[callidus]

I cant speak to what may be different in version 2.1, but I have had the Otaku board (and the USB drive optical drive replacement) installed in my FZ-10 since 2013. It definitely produces a cleaner picture than the stock composite video, however the board version I have produced a much darker picture than normal. Its really my only complaint about it. If the brightness issue is solved in Otakus new board, then it might not be a bad solution.

[geodeath]

Excellent. Thanks a lot. Do you happen to know what the version is in your board?

[callidus]

No I dont, sorry. I went back and looked at my order confirmation email and there wasnt a version number listed. If I get a chance Ill pop it open and see if the board has a version on it.

[Boojakascha]

Hey you 3DO enthusiasts. Has anybody of you read the 3DO FZ-1 SOP44 Bios? That's the one with the Kanji included. I tried today, but a leg broke off :-(

Edited June 17, 2018 by Boojakascha

[Taijigamer]

Hey you 3DO enthusiasts. Has anybody of you read the 3DO FZ-1 SOP44 Bios? That's the one with the Kanji included. I tried today, but a leg broke off :-(

 

How were u trying to read the ROM chip? I tried to find the datasheet on the ROM chips but couldn't find anything. I found a Kanji rom online which I use with phoenix emulator. I'm assuming its the same SOP44 compatible rom. rom2.rom

[Boojakascha]

 

How were u trying to read the ROM chip? I tried to find the datasheet on the ROM chips but couldn't find anything. I found a Kanji rom online which I use with phoenix emulator. I'm assuming its the same SOP44 compatible rom. rom2.rom

 

With a programmer. I succeeded now, (the pin that broke was NC) but I had to assume a chip identity that is 3.3 V, while my board runs on 5 V. I now ordered both 3.3 V normal a*s chips and 5 V tolerant, pin compatible, 3.3 V chips. On these I write back the bios and test.

 

Thanks to you, kind Sir I can compare know the Kanji portion of my BIOS with the dedicated Kanji ROM chip ROM =) Until know I just know it's "a Kanji" code, but know I can see whether it is the same =)

[Taijigamer]

Glad you were successful. How did u find the pinout of the chip? I can't find a datasheet online. Which chips did u find as direct swap?

 

Interestingly, the FZ-10 has a 6 pin header near the bios rom which may allow ICSP programming of the bios or Rom2 at factory. The FZ-1 has some solder points as well which seem to connect to the ROM1 or ROM2.

 

If you are successful then it will be possible to flash any rom we want to the 3DO. There is a 3DO testing station which has a switch on the back for switching between encrypted and decrypted code. I haven't been inside one to see but I would guess it has 2 Roms piggybacked with a switch.

[Boojakascha]

Glad you were successful. How did u find the pinout of the chip? I can't find a datasheet online. Which chips did u find as direct swap?

 

 

I found the identity of some pins (Vcc, Gnd, NC) by looking at the board, and tried all ICs with that pattern brute force. None are direct swap, as the identities which allowed me flawless reading all assumed 3.3 V while the real chip is run at 5 V.

 

I have to take a look for a header^^

 

On the decryption: That's why I read the chip. I remove the code part that prevents encrypted data to be read by the console. I think my 44SOP PCB would have been the next step, made for arcades. As with the Japanese PCBs you had to decide for Kanji OR Arcade Bios, while the 44 SOP PCB has the 32 SOP solder pads free for future add ons.

 

 

[trapexit]

 

I haven't been inside one to see but I would guess it has 2 Roms piggybacked with a switch.

 

I can't find the photo right now but the testing system I saw had the retail bios in one spot and the testing bios in the normally empty / Kanji spot. The switch enabled one at a time.

[Taijigamer]

 

I found the identity of some pins (Vcc, Gnd, NC) by looking at the board, and tried all ICs with that pattern brute force. None are direct swap, as the identities which allowed me flawless reading all assumed 3.3 V while the real chip is run at 5 V.

 

I have to take a look for a header^^

 

On the decryption: That's why I read the chip. I remove the code part that prevents encrypted data to be read by the console. I think my 44SOP PCB would have been the next step, made for arcades. As with the Japanese PCBs you had to decide for Kanji OR Arcade Bios, while the 44 SOP PCB has the 32 SOP solder pads free for future add ons.

 

 

 

Wow that is dedicated. That's a cool project. I've PM'd you some info that may be of use. If I have any more info I will post in your hardware thread so as not to digress this thread.

 

 

I can't find the photo right now but the testing system I saw had the retail bios in one spot and the testing bios in the normally empty / Kanji spot. The switch enabled one at a time.

 

Thank you for the really useful information. It would be interesting to see inside the console to see how the switch connects to the ROM chips. Is CE lifted or does it use the connector pads in between the 2 chips?

[trapexit]

Found the pics: https://imgur.com/r/3DO/3L0ZaOX

[trapexit]

I wonder if VGA or HDMI might not be easier. AshEvans81 on Twitter threw together something a few weeks ago.

 

I'm considering picking up a FPGA w/ HDMI board (maybe a Pluto-IIx XC3S200 HDMI?) to play with the idea.

Edited August 15, 2018 by trapexit

[Taijigamer]

VGA would still need RGB analogue conversion which may still suffer horizontal shift on some monitors. I tried to get VGA on my computer monitor but it couldn't display 240p :-( HDMI would be good but u would need to program the FPGA to upscale to 480p minimum and add a pixel clock to facilitate the increased resolution(s). Creating a menu overlay screen would be cool, like UltraHDMI N64, to select different functions. This guy has successfully converted MVS to HDMI and documents the individual challenges https://github.com/charcole/NeoGeoHDMI/blob/master/Notes.md

[citrus3000psi]

So its been awhile since I've been active on this topic.  I was hoping to get to working mod at the first of the year, can't believe its August already.  Better late the never I suppose.

I currently have a working RGB mod with the shift fix included.  I'm using a Atmel CPLD to shift the syncs. This chip was chosen as its 5V tolerant.   Some interesting things I've noticed (At least with the VP536a) that might help people with existing mods, the shift is more severe when cold booting up in 480i.  If the console cold boots up in 240p (Thats to @Taijigamer for figuring this out) the shift isn't nearly as bad.  Its unclear to me why this is, but has to be something the video DAC is doing.  

 

I plan on supporting all encoders expect the the later Anvil models. 

I've chosen to tap directly into the CLIO. These means one board/flex cable for all consoles. 

 

Features of this firmware include:

• Center aligned CSYNC output
• 240p/480i switching (Composite/S-Video will not work properly while in 240p mode with BT9101 encoders)
• 240p never triggers on the odd field when flipping the switch from 480i to 240p

 

There likely will be multiple firmware versions.  I could fit everything into one CPLD with the ATF1508  but this is more than double the cost of ATF1504.  For now this is the route I've chosen.

 

I am also experimenting with underclocking the console for those 240p games that go to fast.  I just bought some parts to experiment with, will know more soon if this is possible.

 

 

[mario64]

7 hours ago, citrus3000psi said:

So its been awhile since I've been active on this topic.  I was hoping to get to working mod at the first of the year, can't believe its August already.  Better late the never I suppose.

I currently have a working RGB mod with the shift fix included.  I'm using a Atmel CPLD to shift the syncs. This chip was chosen as its 5V tolerant.   Some interesting things I've noticed (At least with the VP536a) that might help people with existing mods, the shift is more severe when cold booting up in 480i.  If the console cold boots up in 240p (Thats to @Taijigamer for figuring this out) the shift isn't nearly as bad.  Its unclear to me why this is, but has to be something the video DAC is doing.  

 

I plan on supporting all encoders expect the the later Anvil models. 

I've chosen to tap directly into the CLIO. These means one board/flex cable for all consoles. 

 

Features of this firmware include:

• Center aligned CSYNC output
• 240p/480i switching (Composite/S-Video will not work properly while in 240p mode with BT9101 encoders)
• 240p never triggers on the odd field when flipping the switch from 480i to 240p

 

There likely will be multiple firmware versions.  I could fit everything into one CPLD with the ATF1508  but this is more than double the cost of ATF1504.  For now this is the route I've chosen.

 

I am also experimenting with underclocking the console for those 240p games that go to fast.  I just bought some parts to experiment with, will know more soon if this is possible.

 

 

SO excited for this Citrus and thanks for the update. Willing to help in any way I can if needed.