Road Rash pre-alpha on Jaguar at 30 fps

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

2 minutes ago, Lost Dragon said:

All the mud slinging is going to achieve is yet again a shed load of work for the Mods on here to do..posts deleted, thread potentially locked. 

 

 

Take it to PM 

 

And let's just have the thread go forward encouraging the game so many of us have waited so long to see, take shape in the best way possible. 

 

The Saints and Sinners stuff can go back and forward in private.

 

 

Agreed. I'm done anyway.

[+Stephen]

Glad to finally see the videos, but considering all the hundreds of posts about the power the Jag has, how this could be Wipeout, or Need for Speed, or Road Rash, I was very surprised to see what I did in the demo.  A few seconds of nearly straight levels with what looked to be at most a few dozens polygons on screen?  Hopefully something can come from this, but I wouldn't even really call it an alpha tech demo at this point.

 

Not too surprising though, given all the grandiose comments Vlad made about Klax and Outrun.  Then I find out he never even played the games until PRGE, but he spoke and argued and huge debates were started like he was an ultimate expert.  The pattern is all too obvious now.

[PeterG]

23 minutes ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

No this isn't about me. This is about VladR and his project. Either hate him or support him. You can't do both.

 

 

 

I think this speaks volumes about the way you think. In your reply above you wrote something, edited it, not bothering but talking about fake people and then decided to edit it again to go on with a wild rant.

 

Most people aren`t that black and white. (Hence why I said that I don`t see any contradiction in the way people react. Afterall everyone on here is interested in new Jaguar projects in general)

 

I don`t hate the guy, it`s just that after all these years on the message board I have my reservations about what he is going to deliver. Why shouldn`t I, there is no personal attack in that, just observation. 

 

At the same time it`s not turning 180 degrees and supporting by asking why he doesn`t take more time for the project as two month is a pretty short timespan. Actually that was quite an objective question and participating in a discussion.

 

Vlad even responded with his thoughts. The only one getting worked up about it are you right now it seems.

 

 

 

[Lost Dragon]

4 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Glad to finally see the videos, but considering all the hundreds of posts about the power the Jag has, how this could be Wipeout, or Need for Speed, or Road Rash, I was very surprised to see what I did in the demo.  A few seconds of nearly straight levels with what looked to be at most a few dozens polygons on screen?  Hopefully something can come from this, but I wouldn't even really call it an alpha tech demo at this point.

 

Not too surprising though, given all the grandiose comments Vlad made about Klax and Outrun.  Then I find out he never even played the games until PRGE, but he spoke and argued and huge debates were started like he was an ultimate expert.  The pattern is all too obvious now.

In all honesty and again going back to how this thread started..

 

I was expecting something a little more...grandiose? 

 

The aim in the early pages of this thread appeared to be to showcase the Jaguar was capable of fully textured 3D games without killing the frame rate and it could be done by indie/homebrew level coders.

 

It didn't have to be teams like Eclipse..HVS or even Rebellion. 

 

 

A lot of water has passed under the bridge since then, plans changed as plans tend to do but there's still plenty of time to see where this ends up.

 

If texture mapping isn't attempted until ValdR's second or third commercial Jaguar title but the community gets to experience some fantastic F-Zero type racing, i would think the majority won't be too dissapointed just yet.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

25 minutes ago, PeterG said:

I think this speaks volumes about the way you think. In your reply above you wrote something, edited it, not bothering but talking about fake people and then decided to edit it again to go on with a wild rant.

 

Most people aren`t that black and white. (Hence why I said that I don`t see any contradiction in the way people react. Afterall everyone on here is interested in new Jaguar projects in general)

 

I don`t hate the guy, it`s just that after all these years on the message board I have my reservations about what he is going to deliver. Why shouldn`t I, there is no personal attack in that, just observation. 

 

At the same time it`s not turning 180 degrees and supporting by asking why he doesn`t take more time for the project as two month is a pretty short timespan. Actually that was quite an objective question and participating in a discussion.

 

Vlad even responded with his thoughts. The only one getting worked up about it are you right now it seems.

 

 

 

You're right. I appologize. Perhaps I did overreact a little bit and maybe I just need to step back and relax. The history of this particular thread is messy though, and there is no denying that. If he decides to take your advice and invest more time into the project, then good for him! If that additional time turns into another year instead of whatever he predicts however, I don't feel like anyone has the right to come in talk smack like they have before (in this thread). People forget that people still have lives to live. Take for example the most recent making fun of him for the snow. I googled it and he was telling the truth about the weather conditions in his area. He still made it. Good for him. I WOULDN'T HAVE. Because my life is more important than people on the internet and what their expectations are. I would never EVER risk my life to show off a game to a group of internet people. I would instead have just uploaded a video like I had suggested to him.

But you are right. I overreacted and I'm not ashamed to admit that.

[Swansea_Mariner]

Yes it does look very embryonic but then again I imagine that a large propotion of the development has been in the engine itself which will be common to, as suggested, several releases. 

 

Hopefully the tracks can become much more varied with a range of sweeping inclines, declines ,  corners and curvature (akin to a bobsleigh track). The range of motion looks far too limited in these initial shots to retain interest, however it does look very promising and exciting.

 

 

[VintageGamer74]

11 minutes ago, Swansea_Mariner said:

Yes it does look very embryonic but then again I imagine that a large propotion of the development has been in the engine itself which will be common to, as suggested, several releases. 

 

Hopefully the tracks can become much more varied with a range of sweeping inclines, declines ,  corners and curvature (akin to a bobsleigh track). The range of motion looks far too limited in these initial shots to retain interest, however it does look very promising and exciting.

 

 

I'm going to guess this wasn't the whole game or there is more that VladR isn't showing. I'd wager this was just a tech demo showing off his engine or a very early build and the idea of what he might have? Pure speculation on my part but I'd bet there is more that is not being shown. 

 

We'll know soon either way.

[+Stephen]

14 minutes ago, VintageGamer74 said:

I'm going to guess this wasn't the whole game or there is more that VladR isn't showing. I'd wager this was just a tech demo showing off his engine or a very early build and the idea of what he might have? Pure speculation on my part but I'd bet there is more that is not being shown. 

 

We'll know soon either way.

If it took two years to reach this point, a fully finished fun to play game will NOT happen in 2 months.  The final 10% takes 90% of the time for most projects.

[VintageGamer74]

5 minutes ago, Stephen said:

If it took two years to reach this point, a fully finished fun to play game will NOT happen in 2 months.  The final 10% takes 90% of the time for most projects.

I understand that but I've only been here for just over a year. I don't know what has transpired before. And I DON'T want to know. I've read through some of the threads but that's where I leave it. 

 

I hope he makes a great game(s) and really appreciate anybody else here these on forums or elsewhere who want to create games for the Jaguar, Lynx, Atari 7800 or any other system that is now dormant/abandoned.

 

I am not taking sides so good look to all of you creators!!!! ????

[Linndrum]

It's pretty easy to spot all the petty little attacks, especially since they're so constant and unnecessary.

[VladR]

Hmmmm, I just woke up (I sleep a lot after the expo and barely drive 400 miles a day) and it appears there's a storm brewing.

 

Week ago, I would have picked up the glove thrown in the ring and start concocting some ultra sarcastic/dickish remark.

 

 

But I shook hands with Albert during PRGE on Sunday that I will not engage in these fights anymore and instead report those posts so mods can clean them up.

 

If I loose my cool, feel free to report my post. 

 

Guys, please, we're in our 40's-50's, this is ridiculous.

 

JagChris said something to me on Sunday about people who argued like this a decade ago here but now they're not here (as in dead).

 

Took me two days of driving to fully comprehend what he meant. I implore you to please do the same.

[tschak909]

It's not petty, when you call people out for being _very_ inconsistent in what they say, versus what they do, PARTICULARLY IF THE INITIAL CLAIMS ARE INCREDULOUS.

 

It ruins one's integrity, which is _very_ hard to get back, and in my experience, those who trash their integrity, will simply move to another place and have another go at the same cycle of boisterous claims, versus actual output.

 

-Thom

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

2 minutes ago, VladR said:

Hmmmm, I just woke up (I sleep a lot after the expo and barely drive 400 miles a day) and it appears there's a storm brewing.

 

Week ago, I would have picked up the glove thrown in the ring and start concocting some ultra sarcastic/dickish remark.

 

 

But I shook hands with Albert during PRGE on Sunday that I will not engage in these fights anymore and instead report those posts so mods can clean them up.

 

If I loose my cool, feel free to report my post. 

 

Guys, please, we're in our 40's-50's, this is ridiculous.

 

JagChris said something to me on Sunday about people who argued like this a decade ago here but now they're not here (as in dead).

 

Took me two days of driving to fully comprehend what he meant. I implore you to please do the same.

Im sorry Vlad. I DID overract. I will refrain from that im the future and stay positive.  Glad to hear you made it back safely

[VladR]

3 minutes ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

Im sorry Vlad. I DID overract. I will refrain from that im the future and stay positive.  Glad to hear you made it back safely

I wasn't talking about you. You didn't overreact at all actually, you don't put a spin on things, just say it straight, as it should be.

 

However, if two sides are at war, they could be in same scenario forever.

 

So, this is me, declaring peace and trying to install a filter on my sarcastic mouth.

[VladR]

I don't mind if people constructively, without being dickish, specify what they dislike.

 

However, I have been saying for last~2 years that my first game will be flatshaded.

 

I wrote multiple posts explaining that I feel this style was unfairly ignored and want to explore it further.

 

So, anybody, who says I am not delivering what I said I would, will be reported to mods for trolling.

[+Stephen]

5 minutes ago, VladR said:

I don't mind if people constructively, without being dickish, specify what they dislike.

 

However, I have been saying for last~2 years that my first game will be flatshaded.

 

I wrote multiple posts explaining that I feel this style was unfairly ignored and want to explore it further.

 

So, anybody, who says I am not delivering what I said I would, will be reported to mods for trolling.

I personally love the flat shaded look.  There was a great fighting game on the original Playstation, I have mentioned it before.  Tobal #1.  I believe it ran at 640*480 resolution and look so different to everything that was using low-res smeary textures.

 

My hopefully non-dickish complaint / observation, was expecting something as complex as Wipeout, and seeing a straight moving few polygon demo was a bit of a shocker.

[VintageGamer74]

19 minutes ago, VladR said:

I don't mind if people constructively, without being dickish, specify what they dislike.

 

However, I have been saying for last~2 years that my first game will be flatshaded.

 

I wrote multiple posts explaining that I feel this style was unfairly ignored and want to explore it further.

 

So, anybody, who says I am not delivering what I said I would, will be reported to mods for trolling.

For some reason when I view your video in my mind I keep seeing games like Virtual On, Cyber Sled, Cyber Speedway and  the Virtua Racing from Sega. Be cool if you went that route but it's your game so here's hoping we get to play and enjoy it soon! ????

 

 

[Bill Loguidice]

21 minutes ago, VladR said:

I don't mind if people constructively, without being dickish, specify what they dislike.

 

However, I have been saying for last~2 years that my first game will be flatshaded.

 

I wrote multiple posts explaining that I feel this style was unfairly ignored and want to explore it further.

 

So, anybody, who says I am not delivering what I said I would, will be reported to mods for trolling.

I think it's a good first step for those of us who wanted to see something exactly like this, i.e., something resembling a game. It's clear and obvious that a lot more will need to be done to make it into something that more than just resembles a game and is more close to a game, including doing several of the things you already mentioned, like attaching the vehicles to the track, having variations in the track, etc. Then I think you'll truly have something that a layperson like myself can really get behind.

In terms of the flat-shaded look, I know I'm a fan. Especially these days I greatly dislike the look of low resolution texture mapping just because you can. Flat-shading can achieve the same 3D effect without looking grossly outdated in my opinion.

[Lost Dragon]

I'm biased but..

 

 

My original hope was more selfish than dickish,  i would of loved to of seen someone showcase how 3DO Road Rash might of looked on the Jaguar and i have no shame in admitting that.

 

 

I cannot code so am 100% dependent on the work others carry out.

 

So yes,  there was a part of me that was dissapointed to see the direction change to a Wipeout/ Stun Runner type affair but again, personal bias as despite owning 3 Wipeout titles on Playstation only 2097 really hit the spot and as for Fusion on PS2..awful...looked great just felt so...lifeless,  Wipeout in name only.

 

Stun Runner i feel only really works in the arcades..Lynx version is an amazing piece of coding, but on the small, low resolution screen,  too much is lost and the game just doesn't have the depth to stand up to long term play, but it was designed for the arcade market. .not home.

 

 

I would still love to see Jaguar CD Return Fire Imagery or footage..Scott Alexander told myself/Unseen 64 that it looked far worse than the 3DO version, but i would still like to see it.

 

 

I doubt at this stage anyone is going to try and do Road Rash on Jaguar, i need to accept that and I appreciate the early discussion  and code VladR shared with us.

[Lost Dragon]

9 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I think it's a good first step for those of us who wanted to see something exactly like this, i.e., something resembling a game. It's clear and obvious that a lot more will need to be done to make it into something that more than just resembles a game and is more close to a game, including doing several of the things you already mentioned, like attaching the vehicles to the track, having variations in the track, etc. Then I think you'll truly have something that a layperson like myself can really get behind.

In terms of the flat-shaded look, I know I'm a fan. Especially these days I greatly dislike the look of low resolution texture mapping just because you can. Flat-shading can achieve the same 3D effect without looking grossly outdated in my opinion.

Flat shaded has a fantastic Tron-esq vibe to it.

 

It's aged far, far better than the ugly, pixelated mess that is Playstation 1 and Saturn 3D.

 

I still love the simple 3D look of Star Glider II on the ST and Amiga compared to SNES Star Fox..there's a kind of abstract purity to it.

[Lost Dragon]

I'm editing out the flame comments but it was this vision of ValdR's that got me interested in this thread to start with:

 

 

"I want to know if a certain game-style and engine is technically possible on Atari Jaguar.

 
There have been brutal flamewars on AA in past that games like Road Rash, NeedForSpeed or Quake1 are allegedly - totally- out of reach of Atari Jaguar in any sort of playable framerate. None of those persons have written anything close to real-time 3D engine on Jaguar, obviously!
 
 

This is not about creating a final game with 10 levels, and selling it to 200 people. It's about seeing, how far the last Atari can be pushed in terms of 3D technology."

 

 

Direction has changed a lot since ValdR made that mission statement and now i am following as i have a genuine interest in seeing how this turns out.

 

 

Regular Zzap64 readers will remember the likes of Jeff Minter, Martin Walker,  Rowland Bros, Andrew Braybrook etc doing regular pages detailing the development of their titles.

 

 

This has become the modern equivalent for myself.

 

An interesting read for someone not in any way technically minded.

[+Stephen]

1 hour ago, Lost Dragon said:

I'm editing out the flame comments but it was this vision of ValdR's that got me interested in this thread to start with:

 

 

"I want to know if a certain game-style and engine is technically possible on Atari Jaguar.

 
There have been brutal flamewars on AA in past that games like Road Rash, NeedForSpeed or Quake1 are allegedly - totally- out of reach of Atari Jaguar in any sort of playable framerate. None of those persons have written anything close to real-time 3D engine on Jaguar, obviously!
 
 

This is not about creating a final game with 10 levels, and selling it to 200 people. It's about seeing, how far the last Atari can be pushed in terms of 3D technology."

 

 

Direction has changed a lot since ValdR made that mission statement and now i am following as i have a genuine interest in seeing how this turns out.

 

 

Regular Zzap64 readers will remember the likes of Jeff Minter, Martin Walker,  Rowland Bros, Andrew Braybrook etc doing regular pages detailing the development of their titles.

 

 

This has become the modern equivalent for myself.

 

An interesting read for someone not in any way technically minded.

Thank you for quoting this.  It shows my reasoning behind the posts.  Grand claims about Quake and Need for Speed.  Then, years go by, and we see a game with a few dozen polygons on screen, flat track, 3 ships on screen at max, etc.  I am sure given that Vlad had never played Klax or Outrun before this, that he also has never seen in rel life how bad-ass WipeoutXL was on Playstation, or Need for Speed on 3DO or he would realize just how utterly preposterous his claims have been.

 

It's like comparing these two works of art:
Vlad sees

 

We see

[+Stephen]

Just for clarity, this is how the real world works and what we were promised vs what we were shown.  Please tell me how I am wrong in having incorrect assumptions.

Wipeout XL:

 

Need 4 Speed:

 

Vlad's game (nice clipping errors BTW):

[VladR]

It is obvious that you decided to troll instead of acknowledging that I said many times that flatshaded look will be in my first game.

 

Reporting your trolling...

[+Stephen]

13 minutes ago, VladR said:

It is obvious that you decided to troll instead of acknowledging that I said many times that flatshaded look will be in my first game.

 

Reporting your trolling...

Go ahead and report me for trolling.  I already said I like how flat shading looks.  Also, report me for promising a game with thousands of polygons per screen, and seeing a demo with 12 or 15.