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VladR

Road Rash pre-alpha on Jaguar at 30 fps

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I really want your 3D experiments to turn into a homebrew STUNN RUNNER clone. In fact... I want in on it. I think after all these years you need a certain push to your first release. I think I can provide said push. I can also help with unique colored shells, boxes, overlays and manuals and most importantly IDEAS!!!!

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I can certainly understand... I'd like to see new 3D content for the Jag. I've been wanting to do a good racing game for sometime now. Here's some more artworks I did in Windows 3.1 paint program using 16 colors; I did this around 96. Maybe I'll redesign all of my old car drawings one day for a Jaguar release; it's always been a dream of mine revisit that old project; it's still on the table. I hope the images inspires one to get past the concept phase for more Jag development. I was influenced by a lot of good games back then; Ridge Racer, Outrunner, NFS 2, a couple of SNES games... All of the nuances came from those games back then in my youthful and expressed in my artworks.  

 

Note: These images are massive and will take up a lot of forum space... The last picture, Akira's motorcycle" I modeled in AutoCAD and ported over to Bryce 3D for rendering. Couldn't put any texture on it, the 3D object was one gigantic mesh thanks to AutoCAD 2000 crappy 3D interface; I modeled this before I learned 3D Studio Max. Although the motorcycle is one big mirror, the gloss gives enough visualization of what a shiny vehicle would look like.

Edited by philipj

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Just a humble suggestion here as there's clearly sufficient interest to take this beyond a mere tech demo


How about (and in the spirt of the old Zzap64 Sampler tapes) you guys with the skill sets put together a 1 track, playable demo?.

Doesn't have to be anything extravagant, maybe just initially a best lap times type affair or a few rival racers to take on,with rudimentary A.I?.

Release it for free and get some community feedback?.


If the eventual aim is for a commercial release,maybe limited to 200-250 copies?.

It'd be a great means of seeing how you all work together and you get ideas of what type of game your potential market is looking for.

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So...this will always be a solo project?.

If so (and i mean this in a constructive manner) that might be something of a shame.

I love the look of Philipj's motorcycle and when i look back at commercial Jaguar titles from likes of ATD,you can see how much better the likes of Cybermorph and even Battlemorph would of been if they'd enlisted a different art direction.

It's early doors as they say,but having seen Philipj's work, it seems ideally suited to the type of game ValdR is pitching.

And would it not lessen the workload to have others onboard?.

I'm purely causal observer status and maybe people simply prefer to work solo and at their own pace...

Still, if nothing else, it's nice to see the community coming forward and offering help.

What's the saying about leading a horse to water?.

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So...this will always be a solo project?.

If so (and i mean this in a constructive manner) that might be something of a shame.

I love the look of Philipj's motorcycle and when i look back at commercial Jaguar titles from likes of ATD,you can see how much better the likes of Cybermorph and even Battlemorph would of been if they'd enlisted a different art direction.

It's early doors as they say,but having seen Philipj's work, it seems ideally suited to the type of game ValdR is pitching.

And would it not lessen the workload to have others onboard?.

I'm purely causal observer status and maybe people simply prefer to work solo and at their own pace...

Still, if nothing else, it's nice to see the community coming forward and offering help.

What's the saying about leading a horse to water?.

 

Thanks a bunch man...! I've had those old drawings for years just experimenting with concept artworks. I think the biggest thing is finding a beginning, a middle, and an end to an indie game project especially when it comes to the buggy Jaguar and finishing the game in a reasonable timely manner. The good thing is that it's not like the early days where information was hard to get on programming the Jag. If you got a family and a job and other priorities, you got to do what you gotta do; the key would be to find a fair balance if you still want to make something for the Jag with a reasonable level of enthusiasm, I hope to make legacy pieces, but then again I'm an artist so that statement kind or reflects that... The thing some artist have to realize is there's a time factor that must be considered thus art must be a means to an end; a process among other processes that reaches an end point with every project making things easier the next go round. Well in theory it all sound good. :D lol

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Thanks a bunch man...! I've had those old drawings for years just experimenting with concept artworks. I think the biggest thing is finding a beginning, a middle, and an end to an indie game project especially when it comes to the buggy Jaguar and finishing the game in a reasonable timely manner. The good thing is that it's not like the early days where information was hard to get on programming the Jag. If you got a family and a job and other priorities, you got to do what you gotta do; the key would be to find a fair balance if you still want to make something for the Jag with a reasonable level of enthusiasm, I hope to make legacy pieces, but then again I'm an artist so that statement kind or reflects that... The thing some artist have to realize is there's a time factor that must be considered thus art must be a means to an end; a process among other processes that reaches an end point with every project making things easier the next go round. Well in theory it all sound good. :D lol


Look, I'm the last one who can give advice about coding since I do not know how to write a single line of code but I know you from the boards for years and it looks like in your mind you are building up to writing that game of yours which is never going to happen that way. It's like trying to push a mountain away. Why don't you try with lifting a small stone first and write something like a hello world program and then you take it from there.
You're talking about 'reasonably timley manner'yet for years you are talking about it and people comment on it, it is a bit painful to watch. Why don't you just start? It's the same with everything, for example you did not draw your best drawing from day one surely, it's also a matter of learning and exercising...

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Look, I'm the last one who can give advice about coding since I do not know how to write a single line of code but I know you from the boards for years and it looks like in your mind you are building up to writing that game of yours which is never going to happen that way. It's like trying to push a mountain away. Why don't you try with lifting a small stone first and write something like a hello world program and then you take it from there.
You're talking about 'reasonably timley manner'yet for years you are talking about it and people comment on it, it is a bit painful to watch. Why don't you just start? It's the same with everything, for example you did not draw your best drawing from day one surely, it's also a matter of learning and exercising...

 

Well don't think of it as something painful... I don't really consider it to be a painful thing or looking for sympathy. The Jaguar really is after all a very sophisticated kids toy at the end of the day just like my comic book collection; something that has nostalgic value more than anything else and shouldn't be taken too serious.I'm really just getting back in the swing of things, I haven't flashed a "Skunkboard" in a couple of years now. Really I've done more reading then I've done programming just to gain more understanding on some things. I did do a little html so programming isn't too much of a foreign thing... I've been looking at "QB64" which seems very clean cut with direct and swift results without jumping through a whole bunch of hoops; would make for a great prototyping tool for game concepts. Not really Atari Jaguar related, but it's start... It supports all of the major sound and image formats and seems simple enough. I'm probably putting too much of my thoughts out there, but I think QB64 may be a good program to prototype before tackling the Jaguar straight off. I've been watching tutorials on YouTube and what-have-you; I mean QuickBASIC, it doesn't get any simpler or more BASIC than that. 

 

You're talking about 'reasonably timley manner'yet for years you are talking about it and people comment on it, it is a bit painful to watch. Why don't you just start? It's the same with everything, for example you did not draw your best drawing from day one surely, it's also a matter of learning and exercising...

 

 

It's called learning from past mistakes... And you're somewhat right I have been, not just giving advise to others, but getting my head into the game, but don't look at as painful, it's not by no means. I'm invigorated and optimistic the future so sympathy over here personally; not everything is as it might seem so I hope this brings some clearity... I'm also a good bit older than I was during my past post over the years, I'm not quite the same person I was in my youth or I am the same person just a bit more wiser now. But when I sold my Atari Jaguar collection I regretted it so I'm here for the long haul whatever the case may be.

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Well don't think of it as something painful... I don't really consider it to be a painful thing or looking for sympathy. The Jaguar really is after all a very sophisticated kids toy at the end of the day just like my comic book collection; something that has nostalgic value more than anything else and shouldn't be taken too serious.I'm really just getting back in the swing of things, I haven't flashed a "Skunkboard" in a couple of years now. Really I've done more reading then I've done programming just to gain more understanding on some things. I did do a little html so programming isn't too much of a foreign thing... I've been looking at "QB64" which seems very clean cut with direct and swift results without jumping through a whole bunch of hoops; would make for a great prototyping tool for game concepts. Not really Atari Jaguar related, but it's start... It supports all of the major sound and image formats and seems simple enough. I'm probably putting too much of my thoughts out there, but I think QB64 may be a good program to prototype before tackling the Jaguar straight off. I've been watching tutorials on YouTube and what-have-you; I mean QuickBASIC, it doesn't get any simpler or more BASIC than that. 

 

 

It's called learning from past mistakes... And you're somewhat right I have been, not just giving advise to others, but getting my head into the game, but don't look at as painful, it's not by no means. I'm invigorated and optimistic the future so sympathy over here personally; not everything is as it might seem so I hope this brings some clearity... I'm also a good bit older than I was during my past post over the years, I'm not quite the same person I was in my youth or I am the same person just a bit more wiser now. But when I sold my Atari Jaguar collection I regretted it so I'm here for the long haul whatever the case may be.

 

I appreciate that you took the time to reply but I think you are missing my point so I try to pick up two points from your last reply:

1) More experienced people already told you to just try and start doing stuff on the Jag if that is the platform you want to do something for, yet now you are speaking about learning something else for "prototyping and concepts". This sounds like still evading the main thing and not moving towards your goal. ( I know that feeling. For years I have been reading literature about scriptwriting but never really sat down and wrote a script, guess what...no script emerged out of that. :-))

2) You speak about learning from past mistakes but actually you are still doing the same thing, you always did. Where is the learning?

Don`t get me wrong, you can do whatever you want to do and I do not want to antagonize you but I had the urge to comment out of my own experience. You are never going to do anything if you do not start doing it.

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Well don't think of it as something painful... I don't really consider it to be a painful thing or looking for sympathy. The Jaguar really is after all a very sophisticated kids toy at the end of the day just like my comic book collection; something that has nostalgic value more than anything else and shouldn't be taken too serious.I'm really just getting back in the swing of things, I haven't flashed a "Skunkboard" in a couple of years now. Really I've done more reading then I've done programming just to gain more understanding on some things. I did do a little html so programming isn't too much of a foreign thing... I've been looking at "QB64" which seems very clean cut with direct and swift results without jumping through a whole bunch of hoops; would make for a great prototyping tool for game concepts. Not really Atari Jaguar related, but it's start... It supports all of the major sound and image formats and seems simple enough. I'm probably putting too much of my thoughts out there, but I think QB64 may be a good program to prototype before tackling the Jaguar straight off. I've been watching tutorials on YouTube and what-have-you; I mean QuickBASIC, it doesn't get any simpler or more BASIC than that. 

 

 

It's called learning from past mistakes... And you're somewhat right I have been, not just giving advise to others, but getting my head into the game, but don't look at as painful, it's not by no means. I'm invigorated and optimistic the future so sympathy over here personally; not everything is as it might seem so I hope this brings some clearity... I'm also a good bit older than I was during my past post over the years, I'm not quite the same person I was in my youth or I am the same person just a bit more wiser now. But when I sold my Atari Jaguar collection I regretted it so I'm here for the long haul whatever the case may be.

 

 

 

I appreciate that you took the time to reply but I think you are missing my point so I try to pick up two points from your last reply:

1) More experienced people already told you to just try and start doing stuff on the Jag if that is the platform you want to do something for, yet now you are speaking about learning something else for "prototyping and concepts". This sounds like still evading the main thing and not moving towards your goal. ( I know that feeling. For years I have been reading literature about scriptwriting but never really sat down and wrote a script, guess what...no script emerged out of that. :-))

2) You speak about learning from past mistakes but actually you are still doing the same thing, you always did. Where is the learning?

Don`t get me wrong, you can do whatever you want to do and I do not want to antagonize you but I had the urge to comment out of my own experience. You are never going to do anything if you do not start doing it.

 

I realize we're deviating away from the core thread subject here but Peter brings up a great point. I finally decided to pull the trigger and jump into experimenting with this on the Jag some late evening almost 2 years ago now. It's kind of crazy to think it's been that long but as you point out: time, family, work, life in general, etc. tend to be priority over a hobby like this. Not to mention any other hobbies which are also time consuming.

 

To Peter's point, you just have to decide today is the day that I start learning and dive right in. While "Hello World" has been the starting point in learning how to program on just about every machine and as cliche as it may be, I found myself doing just that as well with the Jaguar. Printing text on the screen, swapping graphics out and breaking things. Changing audio out and breaking things. Then actually writing something from scratch no matter how big or small, just to know how you have to do it and why.

 

What I also found to aide in progression is having some sort of challenge, may it be against yourself or against someone else or both even. Get the Jag to display some pictures and play some sounds. Figure out the ordering of assets and manipulate them so you can change things around and understand what works or what doesn't. Watch some YouTube videos on programming logic (I've watched about 20+ hours or so now and a lot doesn't click until you actually start doing it or really need something) so to that point, if you're not learning while you're learning, you'll find yourself going back a 2nd or 3rd time trying to figure something out again, which is where I've found myself at some times.

 

So here I am almost 2 years later and only just now am I finishing up something that isn't just a screen saver of sorts or a MOD playing Jukebox but an actual game (a Simon clone) and despite how simple of a game it is, it has still proven to be an incredibly time consuming and challenging project when you're doing everything from scratch (graphics, audio, voice samples and program) for the first time around. I tried to jump ahead and create something more complex like the fish eating game I was working on but realized stepping stones are the best course here and starting out with much smaller or overall more simple games made more sense, which is why I chose Simon. I probably could have managed the fish game had I stuck with it but realized I needed to go back and work on something smaller so I understand more.

 

I guess it really depends on what you're hoping to achieve. I know VLAD has been working on various things for years... and I mean since like 2012 kind of years, so 6+ years? Time tends to escape us but it's not there forever. The longer you wait... well, you see where I'm going with this. So just set yourself a goal to set something up this weekend and start to tinker around until you do something, anything at all. It's not going to be especially exciting but it is kind of fun sometimes.

 

I challenge you...

 

;-)

Edited by Clint Thompson

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I appreciate that you took the time to reply but I think you are missing my point so I try to pick up two points from your last reply:

1) More experienced people already told you to just try and start doing stuff on the Jag if that is the platform you want to do something for, yet now you are speaking about learning something else for "prototyping and concepts". This sounds like still evading the main thing and not moving towards your goal. ( I know that feeling. For years I have been reading literature about scriptwriting but never really sat down and wrote a script, guess what...no script emerged out of that. :-))

2) You speak about learning from past mistakes but actually you are still doing the same thing, you always did. Where is the learning?

Don`t get me wrong, you can do whatever you want to do and I do not want to antagonize you but I had the urge to comment out of my own experience. You are never going to do anything if you do not start doing it.

 

Well... I posted the pics to help inspire the project; I didn't mean for the topic to skew. I posted some pics on another and the topic got right back on course after a couple of post; I guess the pics were a bit too glaring, but I get the feeling if I was to start a topic just showing off my art works, I'd probably get the same kind of responses I'm getting here. Whatever impression I made, I humbly just putting ideas out there in hopes of getting feedback and info on the Jags inner workings and what have you, which is something I've been doing for a while now to test the validity of my theories; I'm just getting back into the Jag having bought a new Jag and a couple of Skunks plus getting it going in Windows 10 being an issue so I'm pushing pass the clutter I experienced in the past and actually get a concept off of the ground in prototype form before tackling the Jaguar; a proof of concept first. But I think anything I post will be met with some level of scrutiny, which is a good thing: I try and read everything and the good info I get, I archive it for future reference.

 

 

 

 

 

I realize we're deviating away from the core thread subject here but Peter brings up a great point. I finally decided to pull the trigger and jump into experimenting with this on the Jag some late evening almost 2 years ago now. It's kind of crazy to think it's been that long but as you point out: time, family, work, life in general, etc. tend to be priority over a hobby like this. Not to mention any other hobbies which are also time consuming.

 

To Peter's point, you just have to decide today is the day that I start learning and dive right in. While "Hello World" has been the starting point in learning how to program on just about every machine and as cliche as it may be, I found myself doing just that as well with the Jaguar. Printing text on the screen, swapping graphics out and breaking things. Changing audio out and breaking things. Then actually writing something from scratch no matter how big or small, just to know how you have to do it and why.

 

What I also found to aide in progression is having some sort of challenge, may it be against yourself or against someone else or both even. Get the Jag to display some pictures and play some sounds. Figure out the ordering of assets and manipulate them so you can change things around and understand what works or what doesn't. Watch some YouTube videos on programming logic (I've watched about 20+ hours or so now and a lot doesn't click until you actually start doing it or really need something) so to that point, if you're not learning while you're learning, you'll find yourself going back a 2nd or 3rd time trying to figure something out again, which is where I've found myself at some times.

 

So here I am almost 2 years later and only just now am I finishing up something that isn't just a screen saver of sorts or a MOD playing Jukebox but an actual game (a Simon clone) and despite how simple of a game it is, it has still proven to be an incredibly time consuming and challenging project when you're doing everything from scratch (graphics, audio, voice samples and program) for the first time around. I tried to jump ahead and create something more complex like the fish eating game I was working on but realized stepping stones are the best course here and starting out with much smaller or overall more simple games made more sense, which is why I chose Simon. I probably could have managed the fish game had I stuck with it but realized I needed to go back and work on something smaller so I understand more.

 

I guess it really depends on what you're hoping to achieve. I know VLAD has been working on various things for years... and I mean since like 2012 kind of years, so 6+ years? Time tends to escape us but it's not there forever. The longer you wait... well, you see where I'm going with this. So just set yourself a goal to set something up this weekend and start to tinker around until you do something, anything at all. It's not going to be especially exciting but it is kind of fun sometimes.

 

I challenge you...

 

;-)

 

Thanks Clint...! I'd really like to make something really special for the Jag like what VRVlad is doing with emphasis on "Next Level", but I'm sure I'm not the only one to wanting something really good for the Jaguar. I'd like to do something really grand, but I'll settle for decent considering the Jaguar limitations. It's only a matter of getting things in order for a smoother way of development; I'll get there as long as it takes to get there. I'll be keeping my Jag and Skunk permanently... Just a few real life issue to over come, but I'm here for the long haul. Always good to get your input. :)

Edited by philipj

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. I'd like to do something really grand, but I'll settle for decent considering the Jaguar limitations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 I heard that before. Well, you need to have really good skills as a designer, coder or artist to be limited by the Jaguar Hardware by any means, I can tell you. It's mostly lack of skills, not lack of  "Hardware power" which is limiting development on the Jaguar I would say. Just look how  grand Projects like.... Ah Forget it, that thread was locked for a reason. ;-)   Don't want to beat a dead zom… ups, sorry - horse.

Edited by agradeneu

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The Project looks VERY promising but recently there is no prove of Progress or game

concept but curiously lots of talking about release, preorder etc.. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Anyway, hope that this will turn out really good :-)

Edited by agradeneu

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... I'd like to do something really grand ..

 

Everyone likes to write the next killer game, but ...

- "Every journey starts with the first step"

- "Many small streams make a big river"

and more of these sayings ....

Means, if you do not start with the small "hello world" stuff, you will never write a game.
 

From my experience, makeing the next big thing is very hard, esp. if you fight alone.

Edited by 42bs

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Everyone likes to write the next killer game, but ...

- "Every journey starts with the first step"

- "Many small streams make a big river"

and more of these sayings ....

Means, if you do not start with the small "hello world" stuff, you will never write a game.
 

From my experience, makeing the next big thing is very hard, esp. if you fight alone.

Everyone likes a bit of Attention, but...  ;-)  

Edited by agradeneu

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A guy who releases games far too quickly and one who has yet to release anything at all.  Neither handles constructive criticism well.  This should be interesting!

Be prepared for "JagVampyres - Vlad Edition" (sorry, could not resist) ;-)

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I heard that before. Well, you need to have really good skills as a designer, coder or artist to be limited by the Jaguar Hardware by any means, I can tell you. It's mostly lack of skills, not lack of  "Hardware power" which is limiting development on the Jaguar I would say


Well said.

Look at the most demanding games on the Jag, like IS2 or Skyhammer. If your proposed game is more demanding than those, then maybe you can be complaining about the limitations of the hardware :)

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Everyone likes a bit of Attention, but...  ;-)  

 

I'd say, you don't have to write the next T2K, a nice Space Invaders clone would be sufficient (oops). ;-)

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I'd say, you don't have to write the next T2K, a nice Space Invaders clone would be sufficient (oops). ;-)

 

And here I was thinking you started by reverse engineering a BIOS, modifying a jaguar with said new BIOS, in the process adding a way to upload code via the joypad ports, created a protocol 'standard' that would be used for years to come and only THEN did you think about "Hello World" :)

/we're not worthy.

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I can certainly understand... I'd like to see new 3D content for the Jag. I've been wanting to do a good racing game for sometime now. Here's some more artworks I did in Windows 3.1 paint program using 16 colors; I did this around 96. Maybe I'll redesign all of my old car drawings one day for a Jaguar release; it's always been a dream of mine revisit that old project; it's still on the table. I hope the images inspires one to get past the concept phase for more Jag development. I was influenced by a lot of good games back then; Ridge Racer, Outrunner, NFS 2, a couple of SNES games... All of the nuances came from those games back then in my youthful and expressed in my artworks.  

 

Note: These images are massive and will take up a lot of forum space... The last picture, Akira's motorcycle" I modeled in AutoCAD and ported over to Bryce 3D for rendering. Couldn't put any texture on it, the 3D object was one gigantic mesh thanks to AutoCAD 2000 crappy 3D interface; I modeled this before I learned 3D Studio Max. Although the motorcycle is one big mirror, the gloss gives enough visualization of what a shiny vehicle would look like.

If those are from 1996 I wonder what you were doing the last 22 years? These artworks/meshes probably won't work for the Jaguar, you need to design some interesting low poly meshes, at least for a 3D game. Limitation sometimes pushes creativity. :-)

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If those are from 1996 I wonder what you were doing the last 22 years? These artworks/meshes probably won't work for the Jaguar, you need to design some interesting low poly meshes, at least for a 3D game. Limitation sometimes pushes creativity. :-)

 

Well that goes without saying a high poly count mesh obviously won't work on the Jag... That's stating the obvious. Games and comics are one thing, real life is another, I've was busy either working, career chasing, and/or taking care of family... No time to make video games the way I wanted. I'm an artist, not a programmer; if you're not making a real living in the programming field or already educated or established in programming, there's not too much of a reason skew off into making games except as a side hobby, but it doesn't mean the desire to do those things wasn't there... Just didn't have the time, the patience, or both get into something I didn't fully understand that's all. There's no real living to be made making Jaguar games so other priorities came first, but I always maintained interest as much as possible over the years. That's all I have to say about that.

 

 

And here I was thinking you started by reverse engineering a BIOS, modifying a jaguar with said new BIOS, in the process adding a way to upload code via the joypad ports, created a protocol 'standard' that would be used for years to come and only THEN did you think about "Hello World" :)

/we're not worthy.

 

A broken Jag due to bad soldering never set well with me using BJL... Even I have a limit. A good copy of "Protector SE" is always good to have. I regret selling it; I'll probably get another copy at some point in time in the future just for keep sake. I use to have problems with BJL, never really got it to work correctly with the PC I had back in the day and didn't always have time to fool around with it. All I could do was to sit it on the back-burner and keep it moving, collect as much info as I could and figure it out later while I cook up ideas. If I had not done that, I probably would've left the scene a long time ago so I gave myself something to shoot for, stayed out of the flame/troll wars as much as I could and kept my ideas under lock and key so if it (my ideas) sounds crazy when I post, it probably is but what the heck. Maybe one day limitless polygon will be possible on the Jag (don't render harder, render smarter)... If a decent 3D engine can be made for the Sega 32X (Yeti 3D) why not the Jaguar.

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And here I was thinking you started by reverse engineering a BIOS, modifying a jaguar with said new BIOS, in the process adding a way to upload code via the joypad ports, created a protocol 'standard' that would be used for years to come and only THEN did you think about "Hello World" :)

/we're not worthy.

 

*rotfl* Actually, the "Hello world" was a few pixels which where set by an modified BIOS and then ....

(But we did not have to burn an EPROM, we had an SRAM card from BLL :-) )

 

 

Edited by 42bs

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