Road Rash pre-alpha on Jaguar at 30 fps

[VladR]

14 hours ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

So if VladR actually CAN pull this engine off (WITH SOUND DAMN IT) 

I have finally some progress on the audio.

 

Only spent two days on it but started from scratch with an empty interrupt and within two days had basic playing of *.aiff audio format, volume/start/stop functionality.

 

Should have done that year ago instead of trying to get the Atari code working, with which I burnt over two weeks last year.

 

 

Currently only two sounds in the demo (shoot+hit). I will try some short music loop for menu.

[swapd0]

Why you don't use u235se?

[VladR]

1 hour ago, swapd0 said:

Why you don't use u235se?

I will very happily burn through one month of living costs just to avoid using any reboot-related code

 

In a hypothetically fictional world, where other coders wouldn't just sh*t all over other people's work, I actually wouldn't mind.

 

But, that is not our reality here, is it? 

 

 

Besides, 15 minutes ago I imported 3 tunes/loops so now I actually have my very first (if short) music playing on repeat in the menu, another on Level Completed and third one in Hangar.

 

Had to disable the mixer, so only one active sound is allowed, as I just did way too many DSP code changes, but that's alright for PRGE...

[VladR]

3 hours since I posted a screenshot and not a single accusation of me photoshopping the damn thing?

 

Nor a complaint that I posted one in the first place?

 

It's really disappointing.

 

Stop slacking and start bit*ing, you guys 

 

[Albert]

Do you want your thread locked? This is how you get your thread locked. 
 

  ..Al

[Lost Dragon]

1 hour ago, Albert said:

Do you want your thread locked? This is how you get your thread locked. 
 

  ..Al

I think it's simply now become a case of whilst the actual coding discussion has been very interesting,  even to people who are clueless when it comes to coding on any platform, like myself..

 

It's been over 2 years now and whilst everyone knew a project of this nature would mean an awful lot of trial and error and experimentation,  we kinda expected to see something resembling an actual game by this point in time.

 

This isn't meant as a dig at ValdR,  just an attempt to give reason to direction the thread has taken of late.

 

I'm more into Lost Games myself, but there is a comparison of sorts here between this and the Jaguar MK3 discussion. ..

 

The discussion has been great, but after numerous rounds of it..it'd simply be nice now to see some concrete proof of it (in both cases) in order to take the chat to the next level. 

[VintageGamer74]

7 hours ago, VladR said:

Alright, a screenshot - well - cell phone photo.

 

It's a shot of the short scripted sequence when leaving the hangar. Originally, I designed the engine to not have to handle clipping against top screen edge, as tracks aren't supposed to be built like that for maximum frame rate.

 

My second engine that will be used in the mini game handles all cases of clipping, but I figured it would be nice if the primary game had some generic meshes even if it's just in scripted scenes.

Because the fallback codepath for top edge clipping is now processing all invisible scanlines, fps drops but I will implement that when I come back from PRGE.

 

I don't now have time to do the script of approaching the hangar , so for PRGE, this will have to do.

 

Here's the photo:

Hey, Vlad. Looks very promising but what is that grey cube object in the middle? Interesting color combination, too.

 

But just 1 picture? ?

 

Anyway, can't wait to see more! 

 

 

 

 

[+Stephen]

31 minutes ago, VintageGamer74 said:

Hey, Vlad. Looks very promising but what is that grey cube object in the middle? Interesting color combination, too.

 

But just 1 picture? ?

 

Anyway, can't wait to see more!

Also wanting to see more.  The grey object in center screen is clearly the object Vlad's new 3D mesh design pipeline has rendered.  I think it's a clue for the long time followers, Publius Enigma style.

[Lost Dragon]

6 hours ago, VintageGamer74 said:

Hey, Vlad. Looks very promising but what is that grey cube object in the middle? Interesting color combination, too.

 

But just 1 picture? ?

 

Anyway, can't wait to see more! 

 

 

 

 

This is the key aspect.

 

Drip feeding a tantalising, single screenshot can be a double edged sword. 

 

It looks great and wets the appetite for many more such screens and hopefully video footage,  but it also raises expectations that little bit higher.

 

 

If this hopefully is the start of a steady stream of material and actual game progress,  we can look forward to some great future discussion,  if it stumbles and just becomes a series of static screens at best, i fear a thread locking is looming.

[VladR]

8 hours ago, VintageGamer74 said:

Hey, Vlad. Looks very promising but what is that grey cube object in the middle? Interesting color combination, too.

 

But just 1 picture? ?

 

Anyway, can't wait to see more! 

That's just a simple decoration inside the hangar - the high poly sci-fi crate with physically extruded details on it's sides (100 triangles). Its only purpose is to break the monotony of the empty hangar.

 

Obviously, there will be more objects later, I have finished this tool barely 10 days ago with only 3 objects modelled in 3dsmax:

- crate

- hangar walls

- gate which has 4 separate animated parts upon opening

 

Here's a better shot of it up close in the PC-based loader :

 

Yes, the colors are weird and deliberately don't match. For now.

 

Hopefully it now makes more sense that it is now possible to hire an external 3D artist and let him create complete 3D environment with this loader.

 

But, like I said, I focus more on the long term efficiency.

 

Once I finish audio component and PAL support, I will be in place to create a new 3D Jaguar game every 3-4 months, should I desire to do so, especially if I will have all art assets ready for me, created in parallel externally while I finish the previous game.

[Lost Dragon]

1 hour ago, VladR said:

That's just a simple decoration inside the hangar - the high poly sci-fi crate with physically extruded details on it's sides (100 triangles). Its only purpose is to break the monotony of the empty hangar.

 

Obviously, there will be more objects later, I have finished this tool barely 10 days ago with only 3 objects modelled in 3dsmax:

- crate

- hangar walls

- gate which has 4 separate animated parts upon opening

 

Here's a better shot of it up close in the PC-based loader :

 

Yes, the colors are weird and deliberately don't match. For now.

 

Hopefully it now makes more sense that it is now possible to hire an external 3D artist and let him create complete 3D environment with this loader.

 

But, like I said, I focus more on the long term efficiency.

 

Once I finish audio component and PAL support, I will be in place to create a new 3D Jaguar game every 3-4 months, should I desire to do so, especially if I will have all art assets ready for me, created in parallel externally while I finish the previous game.

Could i as a gamer,  advise on the side of caution there?

 

I believe Dr Typo released an improved version of the already superb Tube on Jaguar  and that's a welcome step.

 

Taking constructive criticism onboard and releasing a S.E of the original with improved visuals and gameplay some months after the original benifits the community. 

 

 

But his Gem Racer title, whilst technically very impressive in a SNES-esq/Mode 7 style..really isn't that much of a game in itself.

 

 

It takes months of planning, play testing , designing and reworking even the most basic of game concepts into an enjoyable experience. 

 

Throwing out a 3D title even every 6 months just because you have the assets already in place, doesn't mean the community gets better games as a result.

 

 

I tried to get this aspect over to Greyfox (as did others) with his Atari book...it's never as simple as taking existing assets (in his case imagery) and throwing in a handful of exclusive features and volia. .behold my new masterpiece. 

 

Long term planning is essential for an enjoyable experience. 

[VladR]

Oh, I forgot to mention the most important usage of generic 3D meshes for this game:

 

Background environments, generated procedurally.

 

Right now I only have the simple skybox color gradient. But with generic 3D meshes I can render city skylines, mountains, etc - all on demand at a fractional storage cost of pre-rendered 2D bitmap.

 

Because the background layer is 16-bit, I can have some really nicely shaded environment using all 65,536 colors.

 

And finally make use of the postprocesing GPU shaders I wrote last year

 

Now, sky's the limit for the skybox

 

[VladR]

3 minutes ago, Lost Dragon said:

Could i as a gamer,  advise on the side of caution there?

 

It takes months of planning, play testing , designing and reworking even the most basic of game concepts into an enjoyable experience. 

 

Throwing out a 3D title even every 6 months just because you have the assets already in place, doesn't mean the community gets better games as a result.

 

 

I tried to get this aspect over to Greyfox (as did others) with his Atari book...it's never as simple as taking existing assets (in his case imagery) and throwing in a handful of exclusive features and volia. .behold my new masterpiece. 

 

Long term planning is essential for an enjoyable experience. 

I have been playing games since Atari 800 XL, so I know pretty darn well what is fun or not.

 

For me. 

 

If you think you can take 200 people and they will all enjoy the same game in same way, you are delusional. That's not how it works.

 

 

That's why each genre has dozen subgenres.

 

I'm pretty sure I can create over 10 different racing games - here is just few examples:

- Ignition

- Pole position

- Rally

- super F1

- outrun

- Moto GP

- Off-road racer

- Screamer

- NeedForSpeed

 

Oh, and of course, Road Rash

 

Surely you aren't denying those games are different from each other in terms of:

- physics

- Hud

- art assets

- music

- car handling

[VladR]

Besides, I have a Product Roadmap, where each subsequent game requires only slight 3D engine update, thus allowing me to focus 80% of the effort on gameplay/physics/fun.

 

I'm not going back to corporate environment. 

 

Sure, it was great making close to $200,000 a year but money doesn't equal happiness for me - I found my happiness in my hobby and don't really need nowhere close to that amount to make a living in ND.

 

 

Support my work and you will see some great 3D games made that will also utilize the power of Jaguar.

[Lost Dragon]

 

Well...

 

 

I've been playing games since before my folks got me a Sinclair ZX81 and from there an Atari 2600 and then 800XL and i wouldn't even begin to know how to design a fun, enjoyable title, let alone a 3D one.

 

 

I have also lost count of the number of games over the years by experienced,  commercial development teams with thousands of man hours of game development under their collective belts that produce games that are cases of great technology in dire need of a great game to utilise it.

 

So i wouldn't consider myself delusional .

 

 

I saw E.A take the Road Rash Engine and use it for Skitichn on Genesis. .move onto the 3DO and then return to the Sega 16 bit existing assets from the 3DO version of Road Rash..just to milk the franchise on the aging 16 bit systems one last time.

 

 

I saw them attempt to update Road Rash on the Playstation and fail..and attempt to reboot it years later and admit defeat. 

 

 

I saw them rush Urban Strike out and quality suffered...

 

Saw Future Strike Morph into Future Cop.

 

 

At present your making a lot of very bold claims without an awful lot beyond interesting technical talk and a few test routine demos and great looking static screens.

 

 

Jeff Minter used to constantly talk of how he'd lI've to do his version of Star Raiders..the tech demos he did on the Panther were test routines for his ideas and that's as far as his desire to bring Star Raiders out ever reached. 

 

He's worked on countless platforms since and seems to have abandoned the idea of updating it.

 

My point here is..there comes a point when talk of what could be done based on what has been done so far, reaches a crossroads...it either takes the route where it reaches fruition or it goes down the path of staying as just talk.

 

 

You talk of supporting your work..i don't own a Jaguar, nor do i plan to in the near future.

 

 

My interest is purely along the lines of that of previous Atari hardware i owned, i love seeing what individuals can do with the hardware and bring games the community can now enjoy, i would of loved to of had during their commercial lifespan.

[VladR]

You keep forgetting I worked in corporate environment my whole life. 

 

There's nobody in my company to sabotage my work and my plan just to make himself look important during meetings.

 

I have discarded lots of implemented features, but that's because I am creating a new game play for my first game.

 

The other games, there's a finite amount of features required to implement them.

 

Games like TestDrive or OutRun can be finished in less than 40 minutes. 

Once the physics and engine is tested, it's just different track data as gameplay is virtually identical across all tracks.

As it very well should be.

[VladR]

Regarding support of the community- I won't start pre-orders unless I am reasonably sure I can finish it in roughly 60 days. I certainly wouldn't start it now.

 

Besides, there obviously will be a longplay video and a full trailer so everyone will see for themselves.

 

As of now, I still see Jan-01 as a realistic deadline to start the 60-day pre-order campaign, especially since I finally have sounds playing and a rough/basic music playing.

[Machine]

1 minute ago, VladR said:

Regarding support of the community- I won't start pre-orders unless I am reasonably sure I can finish it in roughly 60 days. I certainly wouldn't start it now.

 

Besides, there obviously will be a longplay video and a full trailer so everyone will see for themselves.

 

As of now, I still see Jan-01 as a realistic deadline to start the 60-day pre-order campaign, especially since I finally have sounds playing and a rough/basic music playing.

 

Wow! January is close. I assume you mean Jan. 2020?  How many people are play-testing the game?

[Lost Dragon]

1 hour ago, VladR said:

You keep forgetting I worked in corporate environment my whole life. 

 

There's nobody in my company to sabotage my work and my plan just to make himself look important during meetings.

 

I have discarded lots of implemented features, but that's because I am creating a new game play for my first game.

 

The other games, there's a finite amount of features required to implement them.

 

Games like TestDrive or OutRun can be finished in less than 40 minutes. 

Once the physics and engine is tested, it's just different track data as gameplay is virtually identical across all tracks.

As it very well should be.

No, i just hope you've learnt from that time and can appreciate why as an Ex-Jaguar owner, I sit on the side of caution. 

 

Early screens of Checkered Flag II looked amazing, but final game had weaker shadows,draw distance and no textures,  Rebellion later admitting the contract was for a plain polygon racing game.

 

AVP ran a lot faster until the A.I routines were put in..

 

An awful lot can change from tantalising screens and rolling video footage in the world of gaming.

[VladR]

15 minutes ago, Machine said:

 

Wow! January is close. I assume you mean Jan. 2020?  How many people are play-testing the game?

Yep, 10 weeks from now - time flies

 

Right now I am using automated tests (via compile flags like auto_shoot, auto_fly, auto_die, auto_heal, etc.) with some "AI" to simulate user input that I run in parallel with my coding and overnight so in the morning I know if it's still working, it just went through thousands of level reloads and is still stable.

 

This makes sure I don't overwrite a memory or have memory leak, because I can't make safety checks for every single variable at runtime and keep 60 fps. Just my RPG stats backend has around a hundred variables, so that's the only way.

 

But, I will be using local paid resources for playtesting in my area once I am closer to release. No point in wasting money on testing builds that change daily.

There will be a code freeze eventually. Then I'll throw the money at local beta testers.

[VladR]

16 minutes ago, Lost Dragon said:

 

An awful lot can change from tantalising screens and rolling video footage in the world of gaming.

Of course.

 

You somehow keep forgetting I have a working build that I change daily.

 

You don't believe I really stopped benchmarking now, do you

 

I merely stopped posting about them

[Lost Dragon]

26 minutes ago, VladR said:

Of course.

 

You somehow keep forgetting I have a working build that I change daily.

 

You don't believe I really stopped benchmarking now, do you

 

I merely stopped posting about them

I'm well over the age of 40 and come from an era of buying games on cassette tape with screenshots of far better versions slapped on the inlays...

 

 

I grew up with the Tramiel era Atari from 8 to 64 bit...

 

I spent a good few years looking into the claims publishers and company bosses made to us as consumers only to find a mariad of fake screens and false statements.

 

 

I returned to the Sony fold after experiencing the gulf that was the reality of what the Playstation 2 was supposed to be capable of and what it actually delivered and the PS3 wasn't much different in that regard either.

 

 

Basically until i have something viable in my cold, dead hands ?, i remain exceptionally skeptical. 

 

 

With the PS5 hype train already in full effect, bench mark demos of what consumers can expect are already starting to appear...

 

Until we have a much clearer idea of the nature of your planned game, so independent play testers feedback etc...

 

 

Yours remains a very interesting journey to follow and that's intended as a compliment...but a huge part of the interest really is in seeing the final outcome of years of discussion. 

[agradeneu]

2 hours ago, VladR said:

You keep forgetting I worked in corporate environment my whole life. 

 

There's nobody in my company to sabotage my work and my plan just to make himself look important during meetings.

 

I have discarded lots of implemented features, but that's because I am creating a new game play for my first game.

 

The other games, there's a finite amount of features required to implement them.

 

Games like TestDrive or OutRun can be finished in less than 40 minutes. 

Once the physics and engine is tested, it's just different track data as gameplay is virtually identical across all tracks.

As it very well should be.

????

[tschak909]

The thing that gets me...

 

...is the complete unwillingness to share code for others to study and to help make better.

 

It's endemic to the entire homebrew gaming community, and it is, in my opinion, responsible for holding back the community by years.

 

And seriously, don't bother replying with a defense, there really is none.

 

-Thom

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

 

22 hours ago, VladR said:

 

Ok. How about another screenshot? Just one more! I want to see the ship. Im confused about the environment in the previous screenshot, I guess will need to see video to entirely understand the scene.

 

Also whats in the box? What are you hiding in there? Lol