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VladR

Road Rash pre-alpha on Jaguar at 30 fps

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1 hour ago, PeterG said:

Vlad why would you put yourself under that kind of pressure? Why not release the thing when it is ready? It took so many years to come to this point and while I think it is good that you had something to play at the show, from my perspective this is still quite a long way from a finished and fun game. I mean it sure is good to have a goal in mind but January is two month away... Don`t get me wrong but this sounds like a scenario not unsimilar to the one you described above just with maybe slightly less pressure. Unless I am missing something, there is no real world deadline for this game or any new Jaguar game for that matter.

You are correct. There's no real world pressure. I'm not running out of money in 2019, not in 2020 nor 2021.

 

However, I once fell for the feature creep in past and declined a publishing offer from Top 3 publisher who was ready to accept the game in state it was in, because it was good enough for him.

 

I cleared my top 10 features, then another one and then another one.

Then another one and also another 10 features, till it became a completely different game, way more complex than the publisher was willing to put in front of their audience.

With RPG games, you can literally keep doing that forever and keep implementing new features on and on.

 

I have a pretty extensive wishlist and I am sure I could burn another year going through it, but that won't sell more copies in the end.

 

I have to stop bleeding money at some point.

 

Let's see where I am at in December. 

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44 minutes ago, RetrousJag64 said:

As someone who was a victim of the whole Paprium pre-order debacle for Sega MD, I appreciate your honesty Vladr, and a thoroughly pretested product, good to go, bug free (as humanly possible) is the best way forward to create trust in your other future projects (still hoping for a Road Rash homage). I for one would be happy with a Spring 2020 release if it meant you hit your creative targets and quality control standards. 

 

What exactly happened with Paprium? Got some summary link?

 

Spring 2020 would infer Midwest Gaming Classic, which is April 03. To be able to sell carts there I would need to have a final build on March 15, which is two weeks more than with current estimate. Two weeks more is basically nothing.

 

So, before end of this year we shall know if I will only have a vendor table there with a playable version or if cart there is even possible.

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The Paprium fiasco is a long story, but these are the facts: Indie developer Watermelon Games promises to release what was tipped to be a groundbreaking 80meg cart; a scrolling fighter much in the spirit of Streets of Rage. Crowd funded in 2013, and with a promised release date of 2017, Watermelon opens up pre-orders with huge uptake and success. Another year goes by, several excuses from developer claiming issues with PayPal refusing to release funds, chip redesigns, more coding, and Paprium goes into manufacture/release limbo and ongoing development hell. One year on, Watermelon, now headed up effectively by one guy after internal bust ups and departures, promises a launch party in Paris to coincide with Sega MDs 30th Anniversary Oct 2018, showcasing the game. All that is shown is a broken tech demo. A year later and still no game. Preorders were apparently huge for Paprium (for a homebrew anyway), but it looks like everyone's money is now lost despite requests for refunds. The link attached goes into more detail. Certainly wouldnt want to experience that scandal again, so for me, like you, pre-orders need to be based on a finished product, not an incomplete game built on best laid plans and dreams. 

https://papriumfiasco.wordpress.com/2019/05/29/fonzies-at-the-factory/

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Thanks for explanation, I will read the full article later.

 

So, if I get it right, they planned to finance  a full multi year development cycle of a team that had more than one person? With an untested cart expansion?

 

I would dare something like that only after I build one or two full games and even then, it would be much smaller scale. 6-month dev cycle, not more.

 

I've had my fair share of internal and external employees and contractors when I worked on PC games so I understand very well that you totally cannot count on anybody else except yourself. Everybody has its own life and goals, that's the nature of things.

 

There will be a longplay video showing full area, maybe more when I get to pre-orders, so everyone can make their own decision whether it's realistic to finish the remaining features in two months or not.

 

 

Regardless, anybody can wait till the actual final  cart is for sale, but:

- at higher price

- no bonus content

- no future lifetime discounts on my games

 

I can absolutely sympathize that given the ratio of failed crowdfunded games, there are many angry people unwilling to take any risk, even if it's just few months.

 

Those can simply wait it out and sacrifice things listed above. Core game will be identical anyway.

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What games did you work on VladR? I'm curious :P Really curious because of all the 3d stuff you make and some of my favorite DOS era games were the 3D stuff like Vette, 4D Racing, 4D Boxing, and the Freescape games.

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Not Dos. It was DirectX 8, pre-shader tech running on GF2 and around 500 MHz CPU.

 

Both games were top-down view, slightly angled like in Dungeon Siege.

 

First was action game with puzzle elements, levers, switches, etc.

 

Second was action RPG in Western environment, that I later massively upgraded and rewrote into XNA to support shaders and I had a build running on X360 at 1920x1080.

I also had a build running on Windows Phone 7, but once the real sales numbers leaked out, I stopped as the sales were absolutely abysmal even for the best and AAA games.

 

Around that time company transferred me to u.s. so I stopped indie dev. and slaved away in corporate environment.

 

If you're interested, I could pull out some screenshots off the hard drive when I get home? 

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15 hours ago, Stage_1_Boss said:

While I wasn't there at the booth to hands-on with the project, I gotta say, VladR showed up and presented his game.  Went out of his way to rent a booth and show progress on the floor.  Awesome man, best of luck with bringing this game to completion and giving us Jaguar fans more things to mess around with!

Yup, on that I have to agree, it's real (however incomplete), it runs on real HW and it seems to be fluid.

It does resemble the Lynx game but maybe it's the other way around and the Lynx submission was loosely based on this work.

 

Anyway let's see what game comes out of it, I'd advise to not over-index on the "100s of levels", just a few (say 10) but well laid out and well designed.

Procedural content tends to get boring rather quickly, but it's his game so he gets to decide and maybe he can find a way to keep it interesting.

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8 hours ago, VladR said:

If you're interested, I could pull out some screenshots off the hard drive when I get home? 

Yes, definitely!

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I like how the general response to your project went from "you're taking too long VladR, it's all fake news. Put up or shut up!" To "hey now wait a minute, don't rush things, take your time"

 

Lol

 

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Well you wouldn't understand as you release unfinished games.

But we went from not knowing anything about his projects aside from what was written to seeing a work in progress that is a long time in the making but clearly not near a finished product, so I do not see any contradiction here.

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1 hour ago, PeterG said:

Well you wouldn't understand as you release unfinished games.

But we went from not knowing anything about his projects aside from what was written to seeing a work in progress that is a long time in the making but clearly not near a finished product, so I do not see any contradiction here.

Actually NO. Here is what I don't understand. This entire thread has been an embarrassment from the very beginning. Things have went as far as people making fun of Vladr with every other post. Predicting when he will return and resume work on his project. The overall attitude from the people who have been visiting this thread the past 2 years hasn't been that of people genuinely interested in the project. No in fact in my opinion this thread was no more than the "hey lets make fun of Vlad" thread. Something akin to the AtariBox taco thread. Now he shows a working demo, and everyone is trying to change their tune and sound supportive? No this isn't where you change your tune this is where you walk away because if you were against VladR and his efforts before you STILL are nothing has changed. Go through all 41 pages of this thread. It speaks a magnitude of wonders as to the type of people who have visited this thread. Its actually DISGUSTING and makes me sick to think about it. I on the other hand have supported the efforts shown here since the begining. Because unless you fail to realise, this ISN'T the first video of the game running. He already had a proof of concept up that I myself recorded and shared before. The bottom line is a lot of the new "support" is fake. And I won't be surprised if you guys start trashing him and his efforts again soon enough. It's actually kind of sad. And rather than be fake and act like you genuinely support the guy I suggest people start apologizing for the way that they have treated him in this thread so far.

 

And you are honestly surprised that he has came off as rude in the past? You shouldn't be. He has only treated everyone as they have treated him.

 

You ALL need to do a better job of just being human beings and get over yourselves. This guy doesn't owe you anything and whatever time he puts into his project is HIS time. Now that he is attempting to give a timeline for development it seems to be another issue.

 

VladR I'm sorry for going off topic and being negative, I just can't stand how FAKE people are.

Edited by WAVE 1 GAMES
sorry I just had to. i cant stand fake people
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@WAVE 1 GAMES dude, you've been taking the same example code, over and over again, recycling it for a never-ending train of shovel-ware, and you're charging people for it.

 

Let's dispense with the kettle calling. :)

 

-Thom

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1 hour ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

I like how the general response to your project went from "you're taking too long VladR, it's all fake news. Put up or shut up!" To "hey now wait a minute, don't rush things, take your time

 

Lol

 

Well he just finally gave a modest proof after years of gigantic walls of text, unashamed grandstanding and pompous claims. Now it looks that his WIP demo is very far away from being a proper game. Given that he wants to take preorders in  merely 2 months I would warn everyone to fall for that. It's quite absurd he likes to offer lifetime discounts for his future games - at that point in development, with a track record of 0 releases and just a proof of concept tech demo.  That's quite the opposite of sound game development, to put it kindly - something you had your very own issues in the past I heard.  

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I also, really need to make a critical analysis, here:

 

Yes, @VladR has been working on this, for years, now.

 

It has been the product of what I can very much see is ADHD behavior. It's clear that he's interested in solving low level rendering aspects, and he has said as much, both directly and indirectly. This is what he's interested in. A final game seems to be, at best, a secondary goal, and at worst, an afterthought.

 

My only criticism with this is not the ADHD behavior, but rather that at each "Oo squirrel!" moment, there is a potential game, with code.

 

Sit and seriously think about that.

 

This is code that can be studied.

 

This is code that can be made public for others to finish into a finished game.

 

It does not guarantee that it WOULD happen, but if such code is simply kept to one's self, it is guaranteed that it COULD NEVER happen.

 

-Thom

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11 minutes ago, tschak909 said:

@WAVE 1 GAMES dude, you've been taking the same example code, over and over again, recycling it for a never-ending train of shovel-ware, and you're charging people for it.

 

Let's dispense with the kettle calling. :)

 

-Thom

Lol yeah right cause Saucer Wars is clearly Doger right? Did you read what you wrote? If so you're pretty dumb

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14 minutes ago, tschak909 said:

I also, really need to make a critical analysis, here:

 

Yes, @VladR has been working on this, for years, now.

 

It has been the product of what I can very much see is ADHD behavior. It's clear that he's interested in solving low level rendering aspects, and he has said as much, both directly and indirectly. This is what he's interested in. A final game seems to be, at best, a secondary goal, and at worst, an afterthought.

 

My only criticism with this is not the ADHD behavior, but rather that at each "Oo squirrel!" moment, there is a potential game, with code.

 

Sit and seriously think about that.

 

This is code that can be studied.

 

This is code that can be made public for others to finish into a finished game.

 

It does not guarantee that it WOULD happen, but if such code is simply kept to one's self, it is guaranteed that it COULD NEVER happen.

 

-Thom

500 auto generated "levels" my gosh - how you are supposed to playtest that? I consider this a joke, seriously. Do some proper handcrafted well designed stages that are fun and worth players time and money, even it it were only 10. 

Edited by agradeneu

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13 minutes ago, tschak909 said:

You are a narcissist, with nothing but empty vocalizations for defense.

No this isn't about me. This is about VladR and his project. Either hate him or support him. You can't do both.

 

Also it's HIS code and ultimately HIS decision what he will do with it. Not yours. He doesn't owe anyone his code.

 

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2 minutes ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

No this isn't about me. This is about VladR and his project. Either hate him or support him. You can't do both.

 

Also it's HIS code and ultimately HIS decision what he will do with it. Not yours. He doesn't owe anyone his code.

 

But he wants our money and time, don't forget about that ;-)

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@WAVE 1 GAMES Your self-centered, narcissistic attitude is sweating from your pores. I predict that you will not leave this, or further replies alone, and you MUST have the last word. You are _THAT_ emotionally shunted.

 

You really are incapable of taking an analysis on its point, namely that yes, he can do what he wants, I'm pointing out a very critical observation, that at each and every inflection point, is something that can be further explored and developed into a better idea by someone else, you just have to remove the fear  and/or narcissism from the equation.

 

-Thom

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Just now, tschak909 said:

@WAVE 1 GAMES Your self-centered, narcissistic attitude is sweating from your pores. I predict that you will not leave this, or further replies alone, and you MUST have the last word. You are _THAT_ emotionally shunted.

 

You really are incapable of taking an analysis on its point, namely that yes, he can do what he wants, I'm pointing out a very critical observation, that at each and every inflection point, is something that can be further explored and developed into a better idea by someone else, you just have to remove the fear  and/or narcissism from the equation.

 

-Thom

Im sure he has already considered what other people can do with the code prior to making the decision to not share it publicly. You wouldn't expect anyone else to share their code now would you? I'm just going to ignore your irrelevant attacks against me and leave you with this: if he wants to share it that's on him if he chooses not to that is HIS decision. It's nice that you want to be critical and tell him the possibility of what COULD be done with the code, but to be honest it's not really necessary for you to do so. He is well aware. It doesn't matter how much of a fit you throw it's STILL his decision. If somebody else wants to develop a better idea and they truly ARE a better developer then they can create a BETTER 3D engine on their own then can't they? The mere suggestion of handing off his work to somebody else implies that he isn't capable of fulfilling his own vision. That alone is an insulting idea to the developer and it is exactly that kind of thought process that I was referring to earlier.

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It's about shared knowledge. Something that seems to be _very_ alien to you, seeing as you seem to want to make money off of the least amount of effort.

 

-Thom

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I'm going to add a few words as i have been active in this thread from the start and have been happy to engage in discussions with ValdR in many other threads.

 

 

This thread started out as a look at how something like 3DO Road Rash could be done on the Jaguar, if the hardware was used sensibly as anyone attempting such a game would not of been under the commercial development environment coders would of been back in the day.

 

And it was very refreshing to see the topic being covered in such an open manner compared to the utter sh#te i had been reading on other forums and YT over the precious years, about how the Jaguar could easily handle titles like Wipeout,  Need For Speed,  Daytona USA etc.

 

 

At last here was a breakdown of how it could be sensibly attempted, what sacrifices and where and why would of had to of been made.

 

It then mutated into ValdR wanting to do something more along lines of 3DO Need For Speed.Polygon 3D Road etc..

 

Then moved into Wipeout/Stun Runner grounding.

 

 

Along the way Racers on 3DO,  Playstation, Saturn, GBA etc were looked at and how they had achieved the end results were discussed.

 

 

As the months passed and page count grew, expectation understandably went from optimistic to cautious to skeptical. 

 

The talk had run it's course, people wanted to see and play something to generate new discussion and help ensure the greater Jaguar community got a title that was fun to play as well as impressive to look at.

 

Mentioned Dr Typos SNES-ESQ racer, very impressive coding, but not much of a game and has been scored accordingly. 

 

Anyone who can stomach my terribly written posts will know i am cynical by nature and the stuff i bimble around in, Lost Games research, makes you that way as it's often nothing but false claims,  fake screenshots and false promises.

 

 

Before people start mud slinging about any individual on here targeting ValdR,  they might want to remember what was said on other sites, just hidden away..

 

ValdR would never deliver anything, his demos whilst impressive weren't even upto Rebellion and Checkered Flag standards.

 

Singling out Atari Age discussion threads whilst knowing very few people saw certain comments made outside this open and public forum, is not going to go unchallenged. 

 

We are either all drenched in equal sin or we are not.

 

 

I've enjoyed the discussions with ValdR,  aired my feelings that time had come to p#ss or get off the pot and show what he's been promising.

 

He met that head on and has shown footage. .yes, it's early but it shows potential. 

 

I hope he does take his time, listens to constructive criticism and long term maybe even feels comfortable to share the code..

 

 

But that will be his decision. 

 

 

ValdR is an adult and can answer his critics and fight his own battles i would wager, pretty damn well if I know him well enough.

 

If he puts out paid for product it'll be treated as exactly that, no different that anyone else's book..game...soundtrack or whatever. 

Edited by Lost Dragon
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All the mud slinging is going to achieve is yet again a shed load of work for the Mods on here to do..posts deleted, thread potentially locked. 

 

 

Take it to PM 

 

And let's just have the thread go forward encouraging the game so many of us have waited so long to see, take shape in the best way possible. 

 

The Saints and Sinners stuff can go back and forward in private.

 

 

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