ClausB Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Jobs is more famous but we enthusiasts know better. Or do we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperboy Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Woz Sent from my non beer holding hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simbalion Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Definitely Woz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I picked Woz, he could build circuits I could only dream of! Jobs was pretty close. He did a wonderful thing in guiding iTunes all the way to version 10. Versions after that it all went to hell. Hey wait!?!?! is the iPod a thing anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I said Woz, but without Jobs marketing Apple computer may never have existed... let alone the Mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 My heart wants to say Woz, but my brain says Jobs in this case. Relatively speaking, I have a feeling there were many more technical geniuses - perhaps not everyone on Woz' level, but many very close to it - than there were marketeers of Jobs' capacity. While I'm not much of an Apple fanboi at all, I must admit that where many other companies were headed by monkeys at best, with Apple Jobs within only a few years managed to position the company and the products straight to the top of the industry and sold in huge volumes, despite charging top dollar. Already in 1983 when the IIe was introduced, I've read reviews complaining it was outdated, overpriced and felt misplaced, yet the same reviewer admitted that it would sell like hot cakes due to Apple's dominance on the higher end of the personal computer market (this was just before the IBM PC had taken over), and the simple fact that Apple was so dominant was the sole reason they could price it like they did. That is not just technology speaking when you are able to sell something at twice the price of most other competitors, that is market awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 That's true, there were (and are now) many technically capable folks around. But Jobs had a way of simplifying things for the consumer and ensuring that engineering made polished products. I won't ramble on about my early MP3 experiences in the 1990's and dot-com era except to say it was a mess, for years I had been trying to get a matching player with simple software that could sync, or just copy over, or just, dare I ask for it, JUST WORK!! Jobs did a presentation and said the iPod was a breath of fresh air for users of Windows Media Player and the rest of the world. And he was absolutely right. WMP was a tedious mess of multiple clicks and things seemed to change without you knowing what was going on. Whereas iTunes gave me a stable environment to work in, and with my style too. I gained another level of respect for Jobs after that. ITunes remained cool and desirable under Jobs' watchful eye. After he passed away it started downhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkO Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I am an Engineer Type, so I voted Woz... But in the Real World, have a Fantastic Product will not get you sales, unless you have a Great Marketer to inform everyone about what you have... They were both critical to the success of Apple.... MarkO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) If it weren't for Woz, I don't think Jobs would have seen the opportunity.And if you look at the thread about the photos of the early Apple Computers offices, you'll see they were just a little company.Tandy was outselling Apple by a large margin until about a year after the release of the II+.What set Apple apart at that point was the disk controller. That was all Woz.But for those that think it was mostly Woz, look at the Exidy Sorcerer. It's a more capable machine than the Tandy, but the Tandy outsold it largely due to it's network of stores and lower entry price.A portable 6502 machine had an early review in Byte, was advertised in Byte, it was shown at the first West Coast Computer Fair, had a version of Microsoft BASIC written for it, and in some ways was more advanced than the Apple II. But can any of you name the company or engineer that sold/designed it without looking?Just having a great engineer doesn't guarantee success.And lastly, Woz has stated in an interview that he just wanted to give the capability to the world. He's not the entrepreneur type without some sort of outside influence. Edited January 16, 2017 by JamesD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 It was indeed the disk controller (and the whole subsystem, drive, and DOS) which bought fast and affordable disk access to the consumer. It was also easy enough to work with. Even me as a kid, dumb as I was, I was able to learn it in a couple of days. Most of all it was rather reliable. And Just Worked! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 The question was which one I "admire" more, and Woz is the easy answer for me. He's principled, has a great sense of humor, is a great engineer, and is a nice guy all around. I'm risking angering the cult of Jobs here, but it's pretty well known he could be a cock. He may have fathered some cool products, but I just don't have it in me to admire someone who belittles others. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 "Admire?" Woz, he's a genuinely nice guy and a genius in his own way. Respect? Jobs, he's the exception to the "no asshole rule" as the jerk you keep around because he (eventually) made Apple great. No Steve Ballmer? Developers, developers, developers! Monkey dance! Steven Tyler! Steve McQueen! Stephen Sondheim! Steven Seagal! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro-Z Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Steve Wozniak gets the vote for me. Not only is he highly intelligent and designed some of the most innovative products early in the history of Apple Computer, but pretty much every time I see an interview with him, he seems to be a genuinely awesome and nice guy. Nonetheless, Steve Jobs was definitely awesome at getting Apple to a dominant place in the industry. Talk about taking advantage of a unique opportunity in the tech world... Apple basically went from nothing to HUGELY SUCCESSFUL in the blink of an eye during the 1970s. Completely amazing. He saw the chance for success and exploited it nearly perfectly. I don't think Wozniak would have ever made his place in history without Jobs, and I don't think Jobs would have ever become so famous without Wozniak. It was perfect timing with a great product from a team that needed each other. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkO Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 << SNIP >> Nonetheless, Steve Jobs was definitely awesome at getting Apple to a dominant place in the industry. Talk about taking advantage of a unique opportunity in the tech world... Apple basically went from nothing to HUGELY SUCCESSFUL in the blink of an eye during the 1970s. Completely amazing. He saw the chance for success and exploited it nearly perfectly. << SNIP >> Commodore made Computers for the Masses, Not the Classes... But They are No More, and Apple's Still Here....... MarkO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpman Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 IMHO... none of it would have been possible without the other. They were a team. I'm thankful for both... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozar Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I voted for Jobs. Without Woz, I believe Jobs would have still gone on and created something like Apple. A lot has been written about his role at NeXT computing, but a year after founding NeXT he was buying Pixar for $5 million dollars, and invested another $5 million into the company to start. He saw the brilliance and importance of Pixar, and kept investing into the company until he was in control of the entire company. This investment paid off later on when Disney bought Pixar for $7.4 billion dollars, and in the process, made Steve Jobs the largest shareholder in Disney. Once he came back to Apple, he was on fire. The iMac, OS X, iPod, iPhone, all major products that changed how we use technology today. Yes, he wasn't a very nice person. But he just had this uncanny vision. And this isn't meant to diminish Woz's contributions in the least. He is a brilliant engineer, teacher, and all around awesome guy. I wonder what products are in the Apple vault waiting for technology to catch up? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillLoguidice Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 My impression is Woz was an engineering genius who's genuinely likable and Jobs was mostly a big ideas man who was generally considered an asshole. Both men have made immeasurable impacts on industries I love, and, outside of my impressions of both, I can't really say who I admire more by most metrics. In terms of strict admiration in terms of something that lines up with my own code of ethics, I do certainly admire Woz's good nature, particularly when it came to making sure others were fairly compensated for their work (something Jobs was not always good at, and in fact, at times, far from it). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Woz basically saved Jobs on that project at Atari if you believe the movie.If that's true, Without Woz, Jobs would have had to find another engineer, or he would have probably ended up with a bad rep and would have had difficulty getting financing to launch a computer company.Which reminds me... Apple's growth depended largely on the investment and early management from venture capitalist Mike Markulla. Without him, Apple might not have had funding to manufacture the Apple II.Apple may have been just another tiny company that tried to sell computers for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Jobs was a great salesman; nothing wrong with that. The Apple that Jobs built is, today, a marketing company. Its not the computer company that Wozniak and Jobs started. Edited January 21, 2017 by mr_me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnusfalkirk Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Woz was the technical genius, Jobs could have sold ice to Eskimos and made them believe it was the greatest thing ever. His Reality Distortion Field made it possible for him to make people think anything he said was gospel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linksys120n Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I voted for woz because he designed and soldered the first few apple computers (possibly soldering upwards of a few hundred of them) so my vote goes to the man who physically built apple not the man who marketed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Woz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) Without Woz and his blue boxes, Jobs might have stuck being soldering at Atari Edited January 22, 2017 by high voltage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simbalion Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 While Jobs definitely managed to help with marketing and design for Apple, it was Woz who knew how to design the computers and make them work for everyone. Look at the blunders Jobs made after Woz left the company. Yes, he finally managed to get the Macintosh going and such, but he got to the point where he was ultimately tossed out of the company. One has to wonder how things would have gone if Woz hadn't had that plane crash which caused him to leave Apple for the most part. Maybe the Apple III would have been a successful computer and IBM's market would have been blunted. I agree Apple needing both Woz and Jobs to balance each other out. It seemed whenever Woz wasn't around, Jobs got out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) Without Woz and his blue boxes, Jobs might have stuck being soldering at Atari Heh! How ignominious.. stuck soldering at Atari.. Edited January 23, 2017 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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