1088XEL Alternative Mother-Board Project

[+mytek]

 

I know this was brought up earlier in the thread, but now that the XEL-CF is pretty much finalized, my question is, will it work on U1M machines such as my 800XL? I dislike the SIDE2 taking up a cartridge slot...

 

It is my intention to do so, but that will be a bit down the road. Basically what I want to do is create a CPU piggy-back board that provides an MPBI port for the stock A8 machines. That way things that are made for the XEL will be able to drop into other A8 systems without having to create a whole new version. This was actually Jon's idea, and I think it is a good one

 

- Michael

[+mytek]

Let me ask you Michael, or anyone, about the CF HDD speed? I'm debating the best handling of a large DRO music file, either direct from CF or pre-loaded into ext RAM. Banking the whole file is the fastest access at runtime, but the down side is the load time but that would be before play back starts. So for a 50-100k file, SIO based media seems prohibitive for pre-loading the RAM banks. Transferring from CF to ext RAM seems like it would cut the load time but if the CF access time is fast enough would rather buffer small blocks during runtime direct from the CF.

 

Background:

A DRO file is a log of register writes to an OPL chip. Each entry in the log are two bytes composing either the register number and value or command and value. The commands are delays, either 1mS or 256mS x Value+1. So during play back the main loop could be handling back to back register writes or register writes inter-spread with delays. Over all song timing depends on (register writes + delays commands)+loop/system overhead.

Yogi

 

the XEL-CF appears to match the speed of a SIDE2 as determined by running the RWTEST program. Can't really add much more than that.

 

- Michael

[Van]

Thanks Michael. I think I found a ball park comparison for loading speeds of different media

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/264720-inflatedeflate-improving-the-speed-of-decompression/?p=3747446

Standard SIO - 1.5K/sec

HS SIO - 5K/sec

PBI HDD - 50K/sec

So if these are close to reality, I should be fine loading from CF to Ext RAM banks

Yogi

[+Stephen]

Thanks Michael. I think I found a ball park comparison for loading speeds of different media

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/264720-inflatedeflate-improving-the-speed-of-decompression/?p=3747446

Standard SIO - 1.5K/sec

HS SIO - 5K/sec

PBI HDD - 50K/sec

So if these are close to reality, I should be fine loading from CF to Ext RAM banks

Yogi

Note - if you turn off ANTIC DMA, I have managed to get 88k/sec from a CF based PBI device, under SDX.

[Van]

Note - if you turn off ANTIC DMA, I have managed to get 88k/sec from a CF based PBI device, under SDX.

Oh good point. In fact I had been considering this during playback, but most people want to see something and it helps during debugging. Running headless is done often with chipmusic setups for better timing.

Yogi

[+Stephen]

Oh good point. In fact I had been considering this during playback, but most people want to see something and it helps during debugging. Running headless is done often with chipmusic setups for better timing.

Yogi

You could always make your loader only use a single line of text showing progress, and still get almost all of the speedup. I remember a crunch program did that BITD.

[Brentarian]

I have tested TurboFreezer 2011 and it works fine. However, the cart and eci ports really need to be extended elsewhere to make it useful. The TF switches are underneath as you can see in the picture.

Edited September 2, 2017 by Brentarian

[Van]

I have tested TurboFreezer 2011 and it works fine. However, the cart and eci ports really need to be extended elsewhere to make it useful. The TF switches are underneath as you can see in the picture.20170902_173411.jpg

Could maybe use RA connectors, ala XE. Not sure where to source the connectors, considering the straight connectors seem kind of rare.

Yogi

[+mytek]

The V1.1 test boards are on their way...

 

 

This weekend is booked up, so assembly and test will have to wait until next week.

 

- Michael

[+mytek]

My test boards got here a day early (as in yesterday). Sorry for the low resolution image quality, but this was taken with the camera on my $50 Android Tablet, so not bad considering. NEW SCANNED IMAGES OF REAL PCB

 

 

 

They look good except the 'AA' is missing in the silk screened credits, and a recycle symbol above the word 'recycle' is also missing. I submitted an inquiry to find out why. No biggie for my test boards, but I would like to see this fixed for a future production run. Could be some sort of incompatibility with how I generated those images for the board, although they did show up on the Gerber Viewer.

 

Next week I'll assemble and test these

 

- Michael

Edited September 12, 2017 by mytekcontrols

[+Stephen]

Board generated quite a bit of interest at VCFMW12.

 

Links to all my pics from the show https://www.flickr.com/photos/75619516@N06/albums/72157688905034255

[+mytek]

Board generated quite a bit of interest at VCFMW12.

DSCN4896.JPG

DSCN4899.JPG

DSCN4944.JPG

 

Links to all my pics from the show https://www.flickr.com/photos/75619516@N06/albums/72157688905034255

 

Looks like a fantastic show!!! If it wasn't for my daughter's wedding this same weekend, I might have tried to make it there myself (perhaps next year). Both Stephen's and Simon's booth displays looked great, and I really like the plexiglass display case for the un-stuffed XEL V1.0 PCB (nice touch). I only wish I could have gotten you guys some of the new boards in time for the show (look here for updated scanned images).

 

BTW, who are all the guys in the bottom pic? I know Stephen and Simon (orpheuswaking) are standing in the back, but it would be nice to get some names attached to the other faces.

 

- Michael

[+Stephen]

 

Looks like a fantastic show!!! If it wasn't for my daughter's wedding this same weekend, I might have tried to make it there myself (perhaps next year). Both Stephen's and Simon's booth displays looked great, and I really like the plexiglass display case for the un-stuffed XEL V1.0 PCB (nice touch). I only wish I could have gotten you guys some of the new boards in time for the show (look here for updated scanned images).

 

BTW, who are all the guys in the bottom pic? I know Stephen and Simon (orpheuswaking) are standing in the back, but it would be nice to get some names attached to the other faces.

 

- Michael

Congrats on her wedding (just a week past ours). Guys (the IRC crew are Back to Front):

mos6581, me, orph, joe z

P2E (who we learned is pronounced "pitooey"), slor, DMackey

[+mytek]

Congrats on her wedding (just a week past ours).

 

Thanks Stephen, congrats on yours too .

 

Change of subject:

 

For testing of the new version board, I'm in need of someone that can repair a Black Candle U1MB board. I tried reaching out to the _The Doctor__, but he hasn't been online for a month (hope he's ok). So is there anyone else out there that can replace and reprogram the CPLD chip on this board? If someone can, then please PM me and we'll work out the price.

 

I'm not without a working U1MB (I have 2 of the Lotharek ones available), but I would also like to test with the Candle version which has slightly different signal requirements at the headers.

 

- Michael

[Dropcheck]

 

Thanks Stephen, congrats on yours too .

 

Change of subject:

 

For testing of the new version board, I'm in need of someone that can repair a Black Candle U1MB board. I tried reaching out to the _The Doctor__, but he hasn't been online for a month (hope he's ok). So is there anyone else out there that can replace and reprogram the CPLD chip on this board? If someone can, then please PM me and we'll work out the price.

 

I'm not without a working U1MB (I have 2 of the Lotharek ones available), but I would also like to test with the Candle version which has slightly different signal requirements at the headers.

 

- Michael

 

I have the original Candle version if you need to test with. It does not have the resistors in line to protect the cpld.

 

I just don't feel comfortable testing my soldering skills on that board.

[+mytek]

 

I have the original Candle version if you need to test with. It does not have the resistors in line to protect the cpld.

 

I just don't feel comfortable testing my soldering skills on that board.

 

Hi Lenore

 

My feelings exactly. I don't think I could get the original CPLD off the board without overheating it, and causing a trace lift. And then trying to solder a new one in it's place... . I'll keep your offer in mind to test with your board, but I'm still hopeful on finding someone to repair this one. I'll try to get an XEL test board out to you this week, so depending upon your schedule maybe you can get that assembled and test it on your end. I'm kind of swamped with other work this week, so I doubt I'll have the time to get one of these assembled over here until the following week.

 

As for the protection resistors, the new rev of the 1088XEL already has provision for these so no harm done to plug the U1MB board straight in.

 

I'll PM you the BOM, which I'm still holding off on a public release until I've used it to assemble a board from.

 

- Michael

[AtariNerd]

Realistically, it will probably be a few / several months before non-techy individuals , like myself, might get a chance at getting a turn-key system, but that still didn't dissuade me from going ahead and ordering the custom case / cart-tunnel parts for the Realan case (or in case of the back panel, which is a standard size, any Mini-ITX case) and fitting them together to get a look at what the final design might look like. I'm so used to the old case designs, that it takes a bit of getting used to, but it actually looks better in person, especially the relief cutting in the case-top, which doesn't represent as well in photos. that it's grown on me and helps knock me out of the old mold of thinking about things and onto trying new things. So, definitely at least one in concept form, but am inspired enough, now, that I might order two or more MBs with hopes of experimenting.

[+mytek]

Realistically, it will probably be a few / several months before non-techy individuals , like myself, might get a chance at getting a turn-key system, but that still didn't dissuade me from going ahead and ordering the custom case / cart-tunnel parts for the Realan case (or in case of the back panel, which is a standard size, any Mini-ITX case) and fitting them together to get a look at what the final design might look like. I'm so used to the old case designs, that it takes a bit of getting used to, but it actually looks better in person, especially the relief cutting in the case-top, which doesn't represent as well in photos. that it's grown on me and helps knock me out of the old mold of thinking about things and onto trying new things. So, definitely at least one in concept form, but am inspired enough, now, that I might order two or more MBs with hopes of experimenting.

 

Yea the aluminum case and the relief lettering really is cool to look at, and definitely takes it in a whole new direction.

 

Please keep in mind that the custom panels can be further customized to suit your tastes. I've already done the hard part of sizing them and locating mounting holes, ect. The only limitation is your imagination and/or creativity when it comes to what text and/or graphics you wish to have engraved into the aluminum. Panel files are available in a zipped file on my website. The Front Panel Designer software is very easy to use.

 

- Michael

[+orpheuswaking]

I have XEL related pictures in my VCF Gallery... I just threw these up so you might have to dig through.

 

http://bit.ly/2w6f3B0

[Theoryman]

Rapidus compatibility was dropped from design considerations...

 

Due to space constraints and the desire to embrace affordable reliable technology that enhances the 'existing' software experience, Rapidus support is difficult at best. When considering that this upgrade is close to the same cost of the entire 1088XEL motherboard (assuming user supplied Atari VSLI chips), it just wasn't high on my priority list of things I needed to support. Not saying a Rapidus can not be used, but you will give up easy MPBI port access in the process. Of the two prospects, I would choose the MPBI over the Rapidus any day. Reason being, is that it will bring the end user so much more. We already have two MPBI projects in the works, with working prototypes for each, and the promise of more to come.

 

I know there will be people that don't agree with my decision, but at the end of the day it was my decision to make. The 1088XEL project was born out of my desire to have a very specific machine in a small footprint, that had maximum compatibility and operation as a stock A8, while also supporting the U1MB in a direct plug-in format. And I always wanted the HDD aspects of the SIDE2, but in a form that could be easily integrated into the 'cased' package, hence the MPBI expansion capability utilized by the new XEL-CF-][ compact flash interface board.

 

So supporting the new MPBI standard that was born in the 1088XEL project, took center stage in my decision to encroach on the space originally designated as free and clear for the Rapidus.

 

- Michael

 

So, just a physical issue... It should work electrically?

 

--

[+mytek]

 

So, just a physical issue... It should work electrically?

 

--

 

Just a physical fit issue. But... a Rapidus board has not been tested in the XEL, so I make no guarantees.

 

- Michael

[marty]

The anticipation is murder!

[Madi]

 

Looks like a fantastic show!!! If it wasn't for my daughter's wedding this same weekend,

 

 

 

- Michael

Sorry, I overlooked it.

Congratulations on your daughter wedding. Wish her a happy and successful life.

madi

[+mytek]

The anticipation is murder!

 

Sorry but my 'real' job has required my exclusive attention for the last 2 weeks. No time for the A8 projects. Hopefully this will change next week.

 

 

Sorry, I overlooked it.

Congratulations on your daughter wedding. Wish her a happy and successful life.

madi

 

Thank you Madi

 

- Michael

[dragos]

Congrats on her wedding (just a week past ours). Guys (the IRC crew are Back to Front):

mos6581, me, orph, joe z

P2E (who we learned is pronounced "pitooey"), slor, DMackey

And for those who do not already know, MOS6581 = me!!