1088XEL Alternative Mother-Board Project

[marty]

Does anyone know if it is possible to either ...

 

1. Use a CX40 (or other old school DB9 controller) wirelessly with the XEL?

 

2. Use a modern corded or wireless gamepad with the XEL?

 

TIA!

[+DrVenkman]

Does anyone know if it is possible to either ...

 

1. Use a CX40 (or other old school DB9 controller) wirelessly with the XEL?

 

2. Use a modern corded or wireless gamepad with the XEL?

 

TIA!

 

Well, Atari made a (terrible) wireless joystick BITD that will work with any Atari-compatible DB9 plug system (2600, 7800 one-button games, A8, C64 ...) You plug the base station into the system then use the (terrible) radio joysticks remotely.

 

I know there are vintage controller-to-modern USB adapters to use your old controllers on current platforms for use with emulators but I don't know if there's an easy way to go the other way.

[marty]

Yeah, I saw those old Atari wireless CX40's on eBay but the reviews are awful. And the reviews were for when they weren't 40 years old.

 

I have some old USB Stelladapters, which I think is what you are referring to, but that won't help me with what I'm trying to do.

 

It sure would be great to be able to hook a modern controller up to the XEL, even if it required using cables.

[+DrVenkman]

Yeah, I saw those old Atari wireless CX40's on eBay but the reviews are awful. And the reviews were for when they weren't 40 years old.

 

I have some old USB Stelladapters, which I think is what you are referring to, but that won't help me with what I'm trying to do.

 

It sure would be great to be able to hook a modern controller up to the XEL, even if it required using cables.

 

What kind of controller do you think you need? Remember, classic systems like the A8 platform only have one button and only four digital directional signals. A Sega 3-button Genesis pad works fantastically for one button games, and if you have a Harmony Cart, there are a bunch of 2600 hacks that can use a second button on one as well. And with a relatively inexpensive Edladdin Seagull 78 adapter, you can use one for 2-button 7800 games too.

 

Anymore else "modern" is likely to have many buttons and controls which are effectively useless with 8-bit games even if you could physically wire it up.

[+mytek]

It's not exactly pretty (should probably go inside a small project box), but it's probably very accurate and let's you use whatever you want for a joystick. Check out the article: Wireless C64 Joysticks

 

Dual Stick Transmitter

 

Receiver with Pass-Thru

 

Hmm... that slave might even work inside the XEL case and plug straight into one of the 10 pin IDC's with the right cable

 

On 2nd thought... that might not be a good idea, since it might interfere with a mouse and/or paddles, so it should be unpluggable.

[ivop]

This seems to be the seller:

 

http://store.ribit.se/egna-produkter/joyfi-v1-0.html

 

299 Kr equals about €30,=

[marty]

Thanks a bunch for the feedback, guys!

 

Since I got my XEL, I've been trying to show it off to my buds but you'd be amazed at how resistant anyone born after 1990 is to using a CX40-style stick. But gamepads - they've been using those since they stopped breastfeeding. So, I'd love to get a gamepad on the XEL, wireless would be all the better!

 

Boy, it sure would be cool to get something integrated into the XEL like Mike was saying. Any chance you're itching for a next project, MyTek?

[marty]

It's not exactly pretty (should probably go inside a small project box), but it's probably very accurate and let's you use whatever you want for a joystick. Check out the article: Wireless C64 Joysticks

 

Dual Stick Transmitter

 

Receiver with Pass-Thru

 

Hmm... that slave might even work inside the XEL case and plug straight into one of the 10 pin IDC's with the right cable

 

On 2nd thought... that might not be a good idea, since it might interfere with a mouse and/or paddles, so it should be unpluggable.

 

 

Man, this does look great!

[Brentarian]

If the receivers could be placed inside a CX40 or gamepad along with a battery, then you would have my attention. Besides distance from computer, I don't see a big advantage of this because controller wires are still needed to plug into the receiver. I do think it is a good start and hopefully the boards can shrink some in order to embed it in the controller.

[Kyle22]

It's not exactly pretty (should probably go inside a small project box), but it's probably very accurate and let's you use whatever you want for a joystick. Check out the article: Wireless C64 Joysticks

 

Dual Stick Transmitter

 

Receiver with Pass-Thru

 

Hmm... that slave might even work inside the XEL case and plug straight into one of the 10 pin IDC's with the right cable

 

On 2nd thought... that might not be a good idea, since it might interfere with a mouse and/or paddles, so it should be unpluggable.

Just use a switch to disconnect power from the radio module if you are concerned about interference.

That looks like the perfect thing to fit inside. The pass-thru port makes it look as if it were designed for the XEL.

Edit: Also, it shouldnt be too difficult to put the transmitter module in a CX-40 and rig up some type of antenna to receive the inductive charger signal from one of those wireless pad type chargers for the Galaxy to charge a small lithium cell pack.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Kyle22

[+mytek]

Just for clarification... that is not a pass-thru port as i first thought it was. It's actually a way to provide flexibility in the spacing between joystick ports that of course varies depending upon what you plug this into.

 

 

So only one slave and one master board is needed to service two joystick ports.

 

Also I probably should qualify my statement "It's not exactly pretty" as to not being a description of the boards themselves, which I do think look 'very' nice, but more the aspect of it looking like something that could get easily destroyed if left unprotected. Hence the suggestion of putting it into a project box.

[marty]

Hey, sleeping 1088XEL forum!

 

I just bought a Wico 72-4545 trackball controller from a dude on eBay and it doesn't appear to work with the XEL.

 

The Wico is a standard Atari CX40-compatible device from back in the early 80's. I had one back then and used it on my A800 all the time.

 

This 'new' one doesn't work on the XEL (or Retropie MAME for that matter). It does work though on my old Atari 800 and 800XL.

 

Has anyone tried one of these and/or figured out what's up?

[+mytek]

 

Hey, sleeping 1088XEL forum!

 

I just bought a Wico 72-4545 trackball controller from a dude on eBay and it doesn't appear to work with the XEL.

 

The Wico is a standard Atari CX40-compatible device from back in the early 80's. I had one back then and used it on my A800 all the time.

 

This 'new' one doesn't work on the XEL (or Retropie MAME for that matter). It does work though on my old Atari 800 and 800XL.

 

Has anyone tried one of these and/or figured out what's up?

 

Don't have one myself, so no way to test it on my end. But if I had to guess, I would say it's the absence of capacitors across the joystick inputs that might be causing the issue. However that's a big 'might', and may not be the problem at all.

 

Here's an example as it's done on a 1200XL...

 

 

The exact placement, value and associated circuitry varies across the Atari 8-Bit line. But the one thing they all have in common is some kind of capacitance to ground on all of the joystick inputs. Since the trackball uses pulsed signals for speed and direction, there is the possibility that it relies on the damping of the capacitors to be properly recognized. However I've connected ST mice which work on a similar basis (and sometimes identically, dependent upon the trackball and it's switch setting), and they work fine for any program that recognizes it. However they are always a quadrature encoded output, whereas not all trackballs are.

 

Anyway here's the 1088XEL's general I/O page that shows the joystick circuit.

 

 

As can be seen there is only the series resistor (220 ohm resistor array). You could perhaps try adding some .001uf capacitors as was done on the 1200XL to Joystick 1's inputs to see if that let's your trackball work.

[massiverobot]

While we are here has anyone put a Rapidus board into the 1088XEL? If not is there a reason it wouldn't work?

[+MacRorie]

While we are here has anyone put a Rapidus board into the 1088XEL? If not is there a reason it wouldn't work?

 

 

I am in the process of doing so. I am trying to put it in with a CF3, but they are not physically compatible. i.e., the Rapidus wants to encroach on where the CF3 physically hangs over the 6502C. FJC did include hooks for the Rapidus in the firmware and I know it electronically works. It would physically work as well if I did not want my cake AND eating it.

 

tl;dr: should work!

[+mytek]

While we are here has anyone put a Rapidus board into the 1088XEL? If not is there a reason it wouldn't work?

 

Yep what MacRorie said

 

I never had a Rapidus to test with while developing the 1088XEL, and to be quite honest wasn't all that impressed by it's usefulness vs. cost to worry about it. Over here in the states it will cost you about $225 when you factor in shipping. That's a lot of bucks to pay for something perhaps better done through emulation, or on an Eclaire FPGA board (about the same price ). And it can be buggy from what I heard.

[flashjazzcat]

Rapidus works in the 1088XEL. I had one running in my 1088XEL for a while earlier in the year while developing the firmware, but the fact the XEL-CF doesn't fit alongside it meant that Rapidus didn't stay there for long.

[marty]

Thanks, mytek! Those capacitors might something to keep in mind for the XEL1088 version 2.

[+mytek]

Thanks, mytek! Those capacitors might something to keep in mind for the XEL1088 version 2.

 

If you try it, let me know if it works .

[marty]

 

If you try it, let me know if it works .

 

 

If I had a tenth of your amazing ability with this stuff, I might just.

[+MacRorie]

 

If you try it, let me know if it works .

 

I think I may have solved the mystery.

 

1. In order for trackball mode to work on Missile Command, you must press "Control-T." I do not know where I picked this up, but I very clearly recall reading it somewhere when I first got a CX80/CX22. It is not in the manual, but I have verified that little tidbit on other sites. Now, this is only for the CX80. But it explains why the CX80 would not work in TB mode on Missile Command. It is still wonky in Millipede, but that may just be Millipede. However, I did not have to issue that command on the XEGS. However, once I do it on the 1088, it works fine.

 

2. I have two Wico trackballs. Wico released these for just about every system and the only difference is a little sticker on the front that tends to fall off with age. I thought I had the AT version when I was testing (especially since it worked fine with the XEGS). However, in doing some digging for a Saturn (don't ask), I came across the AT with the sticker still on it. This leads me to believe that the other one (without a sticker) is the TI version. The Wico AT version works FINE with the 1088XEL Missile command and with Millipede. Now, the TI Wico works fine with both games on my XEGS, but not with the 1088.

 

[_The Doctor__]

 

I think I may have solved the mystery.

 

1. In order for trackball mode to work on Missile Command, you must press "Control-T." I do not know where I picked this up, but I very clearly recall reading it somewhere when I first got a CX80/CX22. It is not in the manual, but I have verified that little tidbit on other sites. Now, this is only for the CX80. But it explains why the CX80 would not work in TB mode on Missile Command. It is still wonky in Millipede, but that may just be Millipede. However, I did not have to issue that command on the XEGS. However, once I do it on the 1088, it works fine.

 

2. I have two Wico trackballs. Wico released these for just about every system and the only difference is a little sticker on the front that tends to fall off with age. I thought I had the AT version when I was testing (especially since it worked fine with the XEGS). However, in doing some digging for a Saturn (don't ask), I came across the AT with the sticker still on it. This leads me to believe that the other one (without a sticker) is the TI version. The Wico AT version works FINE with the 1088XEL Missile command and with Millipede. Now, the TI Wico works fine with both games on my XEGS, but not with the 1088.

 

owie, macrorie, you just made my head hurt!

 

Only in this part of the universe can this happen. Control-T has been the deal forever, but maybe XEGS has something modified in it's rom to make it switch all by itself?

as for the wico thing... I don't know what to say!

 

I feel for you brother! I'm glad you figured it out, time to mark those controllers some how some way.

[+mytek]

BTW, CTRL+T in Missile Command also lets you use an ST Mouse or a PS/2 Mouse on the 1088XEL like a trackball. It actually works very well, and in my opinion better than either a joystick or a trackball for that game. I also prefer Missile Command+ over the original version.

 

Great detective work Marlin

[+mytek]

Midi Playback

 

Running some quick tests with a DreamBlaster S2 board connected to my 1088XEL. Nothing special hardware-wise is required to get music out of this little guy. All I did was directly hook it's Midi-In to SIO Data-Out, one of the S2's ground connections to the computer's ground, one of the +5v connections to the S2's RESET, and the SIO Motor Control line to one of the other S2's +5v connections. Those signals are normally all available from the SIO-AUX header, but I'm using a pre-production 1088XEL which was missing a couple of them, hence the reason for the clip on jumper to grab the Motor Control signal elsewhere. Then I routed the Left Out and Right Out to the L-IN and R-IN on the MPBI header with a 47K inline resistor for each audio channel (changing the value changes the volume level). This mixes the MIDI audio with the 1088XEL's audio so that everything will be coming out the 3.5mm line-out.

 

 

Note: I added an LED with inline current limiting resistor to monitor the Motor Control line. This is not required.

 

Powered it up and ran the MIDI-PLAY v1.3 program, loaded a song, and pressed 'P' to play. I GOT MUSIC .

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTpn13l2RSM

 

This is bare bones with no extra hardware or IC's required. However it lacks the MIDI Clock that some programs will require, MIDI-PLAY not being one of them.

 

Edit: Things I would love to see in MIDI-PLAY... Turn off key click sound, have the file load/play be a single operation, speed up the load process (I was surprised how slow it was coming from a CF card), optionally allow a file to be played from the directory listing using the arrow keys to select it and return to load and play it. Option to automatically play ALL the files on the disk without interruption.

 

Here's some MIDI music files to test with: MIDI_Sample_files.zip

[rockdoc2010]

The U1MB was designed to have vertical headers anyway and I wish boxed IDC housings would be permanently reinstated. I'm not sure why open right-angle headers were one day deemed a great idea.

 

So Just having checked the fit of the UM1B that i have i will need to desolder the right angle headers and install straight headers to install it. And i assume P2, P2 and P4 will have to be moved to the other side of the UM1B board as they will be problematic otherwise.

 

Douglas