NeoGeo Pocket Colour Flash Cartridge

[ieure]

Looking pretty good. The flashing speed is about the same as the Bung copier. NFM is faster, but you only get two games (with a hardware switch), and smaller-meg games don't work without patching.

 

What are the chances of an update which skips the splashscreen when the system initially boots? I put together a patcher which skips it for all the games I have to play, but it would be nice if the initial boot of the flash cart bypassed it as well.

[Tanooki]

I'm working on a overview/review of the NGPSD Kit, most of the way done.

 

SainT -- I'm curious about that save function. If you fire up two games, let's say Evolution and then Faselei, will the Faselei game over-write Evolution? How many saves can run parallel, or each reset of the game do you need to use the save function to write that save back to the cart(or SD card?)

 

Just wanted that clarified.

[Mattroid]

I'm working on a overview/review of the NGPSD Kit, most of the way done.

 

SainT -- I'm curious about that save function. If you fire up two games, let's say Evolution and then Faselei, will the Faselei game over-write Evolution? How many saves can run parallel, or each reset of the game do you need to use the save function to write that save back to the cart(or SD card?)

 

Just wanted that clarified.

I beleive it saves based on filename and is one per rom currently. The save function just saves the whole rom to the saves folder so if you delete it from flash, you'd have to flash the one in the saves folder next time to pick up where you left off. You only need to save to the saves folder when you plan to delete from flash as the flashed rom will retain your save like an original cart. And a second save of the same rom will overwrite the previously saved rom. Edited July 5, 2017 by Mattroid

[Tanooki]

So if I'm playing Evolution, and want to remove it, I would have to use SAVE to back it+game save up in a kind of purgatory. Then I want it back months later, I can pull that data from save and it works. But, if I just threw Evolution back on there, it wouldn't access the save I had and overwrite it?

[Mattroid]

 

 

So if I'm playing Evolution, and want to remove it, I would have to use SAVE to back it+game save up in a kind of purgatory. Then I want it back months later, I can pull that data from save and it works. But, if I just threw Evolution back on there, it wouldn't access the save I had and overwrite it?

I guess that's one way of looking at it. Based on how the NGP handles saves this is really the only good way to do it, I think.

 

I suggested to SainT that it would be a good feature enhancement to one day let the OS scan the saves folder at flash to see if a game is being flashed that has a corresponding save and prompt the user to either load the clean rom or the saved version, though I imagine that could slightly slow down the flashing process. I also suggested to support multiple saves by tracking on a number to the end of the saved rom's filename or something similar.

 

I'm sure the feature set will only get better from here on out [emoji4]

 

In the end, it's not bad as it is, so long as you understand how it works and flash/save/delete accordingly. I guess it's kinda risky if someone else picks up your NGP and jacks with it, though.

[Tanooki]

Confusing kind of. Love to see an official explaination. Your idea has much merit.

[SainT]

Looking pretty good. The flashing speed is about the same as the Bung copier. NFM is faster, but you only get two games (with a hardware switch), and smaller-meg games don't work without patching.

 

What are the chances of an update which skips the splashscreen when the system initially boots? I put together a patcher which skips it for all the games I have to play, but it would be nice if the initial boot of the flash cart bypassed it as well.

 

Thanks for the comparison with the other carts on the flash speed. It's interesting to read that the NeoSD has similar flash times also. The actual flash chip itself is the biggest limitation in flash speed (you have to wait for it to complete write and erase operations, and it isn't quick!) but there is a little room for speeding it up.

 

I would be possible to skip the standard NGP splash screen, but may be a one way change. I think I can just overwrite the byte required without an erase in the booter section, but I dont really want to erase and re-write it, as it's possible to brick the cart this way. The booter was intended never to be altered to make it un-brickable.

[SainT]

On 7/5/2017 at 2:30 AM, Tanooki said:

I'm working on a overview/review of the NGPSD Kit, most of the way done.

 

SainT -- I'm curious about that save function. If you fire up two games, let's say Evolution and then Faselei, will the Faselei game over-write Evolution? How many saves can run parallel, or each reset of the game do you need to use the save function to write that save back to the cart(or SD card?)

 

Just wanted that clarified.

 

First you need to know how the NGP pocket works. Then it's all very clear.

 

Each NGP game comes on a cart with one or two flash memory chips. The flash memories have all but one or two sectors of the flash memories write protected -- this is the main read only game data. The one or two unprotected sectors are for storing save game data. So each game image contains both game and save data.

 

The NGP cart is exactly the same. Each game you flash to the system has its own save and game areas, so whatever game you play writes its save data to its own flash area. This is a slight simplification in explanation as I have to do some trickery due to the sector sizes, but this is how it works in practice.

 

When you delete a game from the NGP cart then your save data gets lost as well, as its part of the game image. This is what the save option is for. If you want to preserve your progress in any game you can write it back to the memory card before deleting.

Edited October 25, 2019 by SainT

[Tanooki]

Hey thanks that actually makes a lot of sense from seeing a de-shelled NGPC a few times before. You never see a pile of chips or a battery in there like so many Gameboy games.

 

Interestingly enough it's kind of like the arcade game I guess as the arcade system can store backward a total of 8 games in there as far as the dipswitch data goes before it's wiped, and if you pop in game 9 the oldest gets dropped saved data and all. I found the interesting time it took to make a game go from card to flash seemed to parallel the NeoSD too.

 

 

Also I'd just leave it alone, no need to remove the NGP splash screen. It's not like you can't tap the button and save seconds off it anyway. The loads aren't annoying, a bit slow, but it's also in a way encouraging. Since you have around 15M to work with you can store at the minimum I think around 3 4MB (12M) games and then whatever else in the remaining 3 (2 to 6 games if there are that many at 512KB) given how long it takes to dump games into the kit you're more encouraged to keep using what you have than being fickle with an instant load. NeoSD is like that were you can take 4min to throw the largest size games on there, and you can only do 1 game at a time on that one while you have room to burn.

[RevQuixo]

Might be worth getting in front of this before it becomes an issue:

 

https://db-electronics.ca/2017/07/05/the-dangers-of-3-3v-flash-in-retro-consoles/

 

Someone is already asking on twitter about the Lynx cart...

[SainT]

The LynxSD uses 5v SRAM, not flash. The NGP is 3.3v already. I mean, seriously though, if you're stupid enough to run 3.3v chips at 5v, expect bad things to happen. I would like to make it clear there are NO issues like this with any of my products.

Edited July 5, 2017 by SainT

[RevQuixo]

The LynxSD uses 5v SRAM, not flash. The NGP is 3.3v already. I mean, seriously though, if you're stupid enough to run 3.3v chips at 5v, expect bad things to happen. I would like to make it clear there are NO issues like this with any of my products.

 

Good to know...I posted the above info to the twitter thread to hopefully keep any fires from starting. Looking forward to my shot in the queue for he NPSD cart.

[Tanooki]

What's that guy on about, making a fire where there's barely a spark in the breeze? How many systems across various flash kit devices out there can you prove really bit the big one using an everdrive or some other like product? I get it with bad voltage regulation on crap cheap 80s, 90s and now multicarts out of china, but the kits?

 

I'm about to get my hands on a good deal for a super everdrive and it's on that uptight frenchies kill list. $60 with a sd card in it already shipped.

[SainT]

Overdriving chips like that isn't really a good idea for reliability. Given how much emphasis people put on the number of flash cycles available on these carts, they're far more likely to die due to being overdriven like this than ever having the flash ware out.

[Tanooki]

Or some voltage issue taking down an old console I would imagine too. I think the guy wanted a soap box and found it.

 

Debating mentally that $60 deal, it lacks the DSP and I can't solder that mess in there myself. It means no Pilotwings and Mario Kart, but I own the carts anyway so it's not the end of the world too, just as I have the other chipped games I'd care to bother with from the US.

[Tanooki]

Well I finished up the review/overview of the Neo Geo Pocket SD Kit, and here it is. I'd put it into the Neo-Geo thread but it's a constant twitter bomb and it would get buried in a matter of an hour or two and lost unfortunately.

 

Neo Geo Pocket SD Kit *REVIEW*

It is 2017 and finally a modern flash kit solution has been created for the Neo Geo Pocket and Neo Geo Pocket Color. SainT of RetroHQ known for other quality kits like the LynxSD has publicly discussed, developed, and released yet another kit for the public, the Neo Geo Pocket SD Kit.

There have been other kits before, but they were limited by the space on the kit usually allowing at most a 4MB game or a few smaller sized games in that space. The approach to the NGPSD Kit has been to go the modern route with a mix of on board storage (15M) and the addition of a slot for a MicroSD card (up to 32GB.) Once games are installed they can be played, saved back to the card, or deleted as you wish. When the package arrives you'll be treated to an electrostatic bag with a RetroHQ sticker, a fold out color manual, and the kit.

The NGPSD Kit, inside and out it's a well made product. The cart shell, sticker, and board are all quality made and aren't farmed out. The shell is done in a 3D printer and built quite durably so it doesn't feel weak or thin. The kit body was designed so that it would have a good fit in the NGP, NGPC, and Japanese only slimmer third hardware revision so it is flush to the top. With a MicroSD card in the slot it will stick up a couple millimeters over the top of the kit but not far enough you can see it over the top of the handheld itself so it's safe. The MicroSD card can be removed which blocks the SDCard menu, but anything in the Flash works as normal which is an unique and welcome feature.

The kit is split into two menus that are minimalist, functional, and fairly styish accomplishing what it needs to do. The two tabs are marked Flash and SDCard which are toggled between pushing the system Option button. Flash lists the games you copied from the MicroSD card ready to use, and also up top shows your remaining free space. SDCard has the contents of your card setup as you copied it. The card (in FAT format) can handle multiple directories and long file names (53 characters), but the games must have the .NGP or .NGC extension.

On both tabs you'll have a set of options at the bottom, and by pressing and holding B button you can get secondary features. By default you can use the four directions to navigate up and down, and left and right allow reading long file names. The secondary set allow deleting, saving, and full page tabbing up and down. Both game lists show on the left color or black and white bars for the system the game is made for, the file size, and then the games listed in alphabetical order. The system also has a hidden firmware update feature the manual covers, but it will allow for improvement, expansion, and bug fixes.

The software inside has a solid menu, but it also requires a bit of patience when copying a game from the MicroSD Card to the kit. Interestingly enough the kit mirrors the behavior of its big brother the NeoSD for MVS and AES. I tested it using a 1GB SanDisk MicroSD card. The NGP/NGPC game sizes vary between 512KB and 4MB. My testing showed that a 1MB game will take basically 1 minute of time which should vary a few seconds either way depending on your MicroSD card speed. The smallest (512KB) games will copy in around 30 seconds, and the largest (4MB) will take about 4 minutes. These waits only affect copying from SD to Flash. The system is heavily tied to flash chip logic so don't expect that to improve, and this behavior is mirrored on the NeoSD so maybe a similar SNK design there too?

The loading of games from the card to the flash is the most notable lag, but there is another though it can be mitigated. If you load up dozens or more games in one directory on your memory card it will stall and load the game list in chunks, a limitation of the NGP/NGPC itself. You can via the menu use a page up/down feature to minimize that. To remove the problem, just break up your games in smaller sub-directories. That said though, when erasing a game it takes a few seconds at best, and it's the same for loading a flash game from the list to play as well, so it's not a total system issue.

The saving feature of this card is unique to this system. A legitimate cartridge has the game and save data share the same space. The NGPSD Kit copies this behavior so each game has its own save and game area. If you erase a game from the kit, the save goes with it. That's where the save option comes in. Using this it will write game and save data back to the MicroSD card to preserve your progress for later.

Overall it is an amazing little cartridge and other than having the need for 30 seconds to 4 minute worth of patience in copying from the MicroSD card to the kit itself it's fantastic. The menu system works well and is user friendly. Navigation is easy and starting games from kit is fast and painless. Multiple games with save data work just fine along each other without over writing your data. The kit itself is rugged and not flimsy, it doesn't feel like the GBA EZ-Flash devices of the past that bend in your fingers and tend to fall apart.

If you wish to wish to learn more or get a kit of your own go to: http://www.retrohq.co.uk

[Greg2600]

I'm now #13 on the list, should I have received an email? Asking because this new Hotmail tends to hide stuff from me! Stupid Focused crap.

[retrorgb]

So, you're calling someone an "uptight frenchie" and claiming he wanted a soapbox because he wrote a blog post filled with facts? Right. Gotcha.

 

 

What's that guy on about, making a fire where there's barely a spark in the breeze? How many systems across various flash kit devices out there can you prove really bit the big one using an everdrive or some other like product? I get it with bad voltage regulation on crap cheap 80s, 90s and now multicarts out of china, but the kits?

 

I'm about to get my hands on a good deal for a super everdrive and it's on that uptight frenchies kill list. $60 with a sd card in it already shipped.

 

Or some voltage issue taking down an old console I would imagine too. I think the guy wanted a soap box and found it.

 

Debating mentally that $60 deal, it lacks the DSP and I can't solder that mess in there myself. It means no Pilotwings and Mario Kart, but I own the carts anyway so it's not the end of the world too, just as I have the other chipped games I'd care to bother with from the US.

 

Edited July 6, 2017 by retrorgb

[kublai]

I'm now #13 on the list, should I have received an email? Asking because this new Hotmail tends to hide stuff from me! Stupid Focused crap.

I am #9 on the list and still haven't gotten an email yet but hopefully soon.

[SainT]

I am #9 on the list and still haven't gotten an email yet but hopefully soon.

 

The pre-order list is a queue. You wont get an email until I get to you... #9 just means there are 8 people in front of you. If it says you're not in the list and you think you should have received an email then check your spam or drop me a message.

[TDIRunner]

I received my email on Tuesday, and responded today. I'm excited and ready to pay once I get my invoice.

 

My email ended up going to my junk mail folder, so make sure you are keeping an eye on that folder if you are expecting your email soon.

[Krip316]

My email was also in the spam folder. Check'em people! And patience is a virtue guys. When you're #1, that means it's your turn. Make sense? Good! Glad I cleared that up. [emoji1305][emoji1303][emoji12][emoji23]

[Tanooki]

So, you're calling someone an "uptight frenchie" and claiming he wanted a soapbox because he wrote a blog post filled with facts? Right. Gotcha.

 

Basically yes. He was being a drama queen on there relating the smoking vs dying of cancer thing to the voltages on some kits against the hardware. Even he joked in his own faq area he was being a french asshole (his words.) It may be true, but it's still mostly attention seeking smoke blowing as there's little way to prove people are actually killing systems using kits with any regularity vs dying of old age as there's no data to back it up unlike cigs and lung cancer.

 

None of these consoles we have were ever intended to last beyond their own shelf life as far as the companies are concerned, let alone 20 to 40 years later. Good luck anyone proving people are killing hardware with kits vs a short term device dying after living well beyond its intended design years.

[SainT]

After seeing the multi-carts for the NES (156 in 1 or whatever) are actually 3.3v flash chips being POWERED at 5v (or using a diode dropper) with 5v direct to the address and data bus, I'd certainly never use one of those. Ever.

 

Look it like this -- if you drive your car in 1st gear everywhere flat out on the rev limiter, its still within tolerances of the vehicle. It will work. But do you think it will last long?

[Tanooki]

Probably not, but then again is this the exact space for this argument anyway. You clearly were smart enough not to play voltage games.