Frogz 64 Atari Jaguar game

[+madman]

Read back what you wrote there Madman and play that bad boy back over in your head a couple times. Just saying

Thank you for your input!

[Clint Thompson]

I don't see how this is "stop shitting on Jeff or else nobody will want to make Jag homebrew again." That can't be the only option here. He should see us pointing out bugs as a good thing. Not "nit picking." From memory, he is the only person who has been dogpiled in this manner and it is a direct result of many of his actions. Did we ever treat CJ like this? Orion? Matthias? Anyone else? He went from an "I learned some lessons on FF64" type of stance to here we are back again in the same place. It is obvious from the videos there are still bugs in this version. He says "well it's not meant to be Frogger, that's why it's like that" but then on the website talks about how it's the arcade classic. It can't be both.

 

And if the choice is stop pointing out bugs in products sold at a premium price that the developer won't fix, or just never have any new homebrew, I'll choose the latter. But yeah, I will concede that some of the feedback could be phrased in a more constructive manner (not that it will matter) as opposed to personal attacks.

 

 

Has a lot more to do with the negative attitude and very over-the-top personal remarks or just unnecessary name calling and attacks in every other post. Jeff most definitely isn't the first one to be subjected to it and I'm not saying some of the criticism isn't warranted because it definitely is... it's just too much. No one treats CJ, Orion or Matthias like this (in regards to product releases) because they are above and beyond far more experienced and it clearly shows in their programming and products. Some of these guys spend years on a single game/project and it's obvious that polish and time shows. Plus some of them have assets like music and sound created from other people who are also very talented.

 

Instead of people shitting on this entire thread, people should just step back for a second and realize what it really is. It's an accomplishment that proves the potential of what Rb+ is from start to finish in a short period of time with an absolute beginner and in the right hands and a lot of time (I already know of one), you can create some truly amazing things. There's just no way he would've gotten even remotely close to creating something like this otherwise and that can be said about a lot of people who would like to try their hand at making something on the Jaguar but don't possess the underlying skillset and assembly language comprehension level while having extensive time and helping hands required to dig deep into the Jaguar and program for it.

 

Every single bug deserves to be pointed out and should be addressed but even in a perfect world when there's 10 guys working on a single game, you ship with bugs. It just happens. Deadlines are deadlines and extensions are made but you can only do it for so long. I doubt anyone wants to spend 2-years making a perfect Frogger clone that about 100 people give a rats ass about and judging by the feedback contained in this thread, not even that many. I only have a few real complaints about this game that could be addressed but I didn't make the game so it's whatever. I also don't agree with the pricing (would adopt the $29-$34.95 for CD and $49-$59 price model for carts) but to each their own. There are still demos being sold for the same price that are just found and re-sold at the expense of someone burning the CD or chips and saying here, now give me money.

 

Yes, he needs someone to test the games fully. Yes, he could delay the game by another month and fix any minor remaining issues. Let's say he does that, he spends another month and then someone finds another glitch or bug a month after. I'll bet either way it doesn't make a damn bit of difference and everyone who has already tossed it into the dogshit pile will continue to see it as such and find something else to trash it about and that's fine. I just don't think there's any pleasing the entire crowd when so many people clearly have some sort of underlying annoyance or hatred for the guy. Everyone has their own opinion, it just doesn't have to go to the extreme of treating him like absolute shit because someone else doesn't like it or agree with how it's being handled. That could really be said for the Jaguar scene as a whole.

 

We're still human here.

[+Sauron]

Again, I agree 100% with Clint. He makes some really valid points here. On top of that, I'll say this for Clint...I've known him back since the JI2 days, and not once in all of this time have I ever seen him participate in any kind of Jagudrama. The fact that he's speaking out here means some of us should probably listen.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

Speak of the devil! These came today while I was at work thanks to IcemanXP for assembly! More coming later this week from overseas. In stock and ready to go.

[BillyHW]

Where'd you get the green shells?

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

Where'd you get the green shells?

Mortoffgames. Special color order.

[Austin]

I don't see how this is "stop shitting on Jeff or else nobody will want to make Jag homebrew again." That can't be the only option here. He should see us pointing out bugs as a good thing. Not "nit picking." From memory, he is the only person who has been dogpiled in this manner and it is a direct result of many of his actions. Did we ever treat CJ like this? Orion? Matthias? Anyone else? He went from an "I learned some lessons on FF64" type of stance to here we are back again in the same place. It is obvious from the videos there are still bugs in this version. He says "well it's not meant to be Frogger, that's why it's like that" but then on the website talks about how it's the arcade classic. It can't be both.

 

And if the choice is stop pointing out bugs in products sold at a premium price that the developer won't fix, or just never have any new homebrew, I'll choose the latter. But yeah, I will concede that some of the feedback could be phrased in a more constructive manner (not that it will matter) as opposed to personal attacks.

 

I'm with Madman on this one, sorry guys.

 

I feel like this situation has quickly turned into another prime example of what not to do when making a homebrew game. The sad part is--and this is what some of us are annoyed about--is that this is the second time by the same individual that a game like this was rushed out.

 

I see some fun concepts in Frogz 64. The problem is, Jeff clearly demonstrates impatience and throughout the process had his sights set well beyond the finish line rather than crafting a polished, entertaining game. Some of my personal issues include poorly animated characters that jerk across the screen, platforms and enemies that fly by at light speed with little to no rhythm or flow and there being seemingly no semblance of difficulty scaling, to name a few of my issues. There is simply little to no polish and in the end I see the whole thing as potential lost. I just feel that if you are going to do it, do it right or don't do it at all (or just keep it to yourself, that's perfectly OK).

 

Of course, much of the criticism myself and others have with it could have been negated if it was just some random freebie ROM release ("OK guys, here's an exercise I have been working on and I'm releasing it here for you to toy around with. I am going to take this experience gained into my next full-blown game"). However, when you decide to manufacture it, put a price on it and treat it as a full-blown release, then it's expected for people to be significantly more critical about it.

 

Here's to hoping that Jeff learns from this experience and comes up with something with polish in the future. Maybe have some people play test it publicly and provide ideas for improvements, and most importantly, let it simmer before releasing it. There's no need to make a race out of crafting homebrews.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

[+madman]

Ah nevermind. Best of luck.

[PlaysWithWolves]

At 0:30 a truck runs square over the frog but the frog lives. Been many years since I played Frogger, but that seems problematic.

 

 

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

At 0:30 a truck runs square over the frog but the frog lives. Been many years since I played Frogger, but that seems problematic.

 

 

watch the time stamp again

there are 4 lanes

we will call the top lane lane A

the second lane is where the truck is we will call that lane B

just as the truck approaches the frog the frog moves up into lane A. the truck is displayed at 3/4 top view so the frog is behind the truck properly. Frog is in lane A and truck is moving along in lane B

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Jeffrey_Bones

[+madman]

Here's what I saw:

 

OK, maybe a small hitbox.

 

'Eh he kinda looks under the truck to me.

 

He's OK.

 

Are you saying if the frog was on the center divider that is where the collision takes place, not when he's on the road?

[walter_J64bit]

[+CyranoJ]

This illustrates a good point. Working as intended and working as expected are different things.

 

In my current project I have a chime played when some objects collide. This works 100% of the time. The testers have reported a failure of collision because they had audio disabled.

 

It's working as intended. It's not working as players expect. I need to fix this, because regardless of if it is working or not people think it's broken, so in all practical ways it IS broken.

 

Play testing and listening to feedback is essential.

[PlaysWithWolves]

As Madman showed, the frog is still in lane B when the truck is completely over it.

I spotted it in full speed, but if it's not obvious then run the video at 0.25 speed and you can see and hear for yourself. The frog doesn't move at all.

 

Later (0:59), the frog is in the same lane and almost same locale and does die. Strangely, it's above the car instead of under it but at least it's dead.

 

 

It's your game and clones aren't supposed to be 100% copies but the rules seem pretty loose.

I guess it's too late to change now, though. I hope you'll use this as a learning experience for your next game.

Edited September 20, 2017 by PlaysWithWolves

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

As Madman showed, the frog is still in lane B when the truck is completely over it.

I spotted it in full speed, but if it's not obvious then run the video at 0.25 speed and you can see and hear for yourself. The frog doesn't move at all.

 

Later (0:59), the frog is in the same lane and almost same locale and does die. Strangely, it's above the car instead of under it but at least it's dead.

 

frogz.JPG

 

 

It's your game and clones aren't supposed to be 100% copies but the rules seem pretty loose.

I guess it's too late to change now, though. I hope you'll use this as a learning experience for your next game.

 

Ok I see the issue now. And I'm pretty sure I know what it is. The hitbox on the frog is too skinny and slightly too short like Madman pointed out. The good thing is the CDs havent went out to anyone yet and the green and clear carts havent been built yet. I cant do anything about this small issue on the black carts that have already been built but I CAN adjust this for the CD buyers and all future carts. Clint pointed out some other issues in 2600 mode that I fixed yesterday. I will adjust this hitbox too. Although it is my personal opinion that this is NOT a game breaker it IS something that is completely fixable so I'm just gonna do it. Im also going to slow down the decent of the asteroids and the speed of the airplane in their respective levels to give the player more time to dodge. I will include a full list of the tweaks Im doing today here in this thread

Edited September 20, 2017 by Jeffrey_Bones

[SwedenLynxer]

Game looks fun, I may be interested in buying this. However it seem a bit unfortunate that there will be many different versions of the game in different stages of completion. Putting a game on cart / CD should obviously be the last thing you do, when the game is finished, not something you do while the game is still being developed.

 

Why the rush? Do you work against a dead line here?

[+Biff Burgertime]

I took an interest in the Jag within the past year and have been lurking this forum off and on ever since. I never felt compelled to register an account and speak up until now.

I've been big into the Dreamcast community for years, and one thing's for sure: New releases are the best things for retro console communities. It's what we all wait for and get excited about. New game releases are met with nothing but positive energy and universal praise. If there's any negativity surrounding a release, there has to be a serious screw-up somewhere.

I want to be careful that I don't cross the line here so I'll simply state that behavior like Jeff's should be universally condemned in ANY gaming community. If you follow these Jaguar forums including the programming subforums, you know what I'm talking about and have seen enough shady actions to establish a pattern by now. Hopefully he'll improve over time, but the way he blatantly lies and remains defiant in the face of legitimate criticism makes me think otherwise, as these behaviors tend to be consistent with those that are set in their ways. If I dare make the comparison, this is Mike Kennedy-level dishonesty cash-grab bullshit stuff.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Buffalo Biff Burgertime

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

I took an interest in the Jag within the past year and have been lurking this forum off and on ever since. I never felt compelled to register an account and speak up until now.

 

I've been big into the Dreamcast community for years, and one thing's for sure: New releases are the best things for retro console communities. It's what we all wait for and get excited about. New game releases are met with nothing but positive energy and universal praise. If there's any negativity surrounding a release, there has to be a serious screw-up somewhere.

 

I want to be careful that I don't cross the line here so I'll simply state that behavior like Jeff's should be universally condemned in ANY gaming community. If you follow these Jaguar forums including the programming subforums, you know what I'm talking about and have seen enough shady actions to establish a pattern by now. Hopefully he'll improve over time, but the way he blatantly lies and remains defiant in the face of legitimate criticism makes me think otherwise, as these behaviors tend to be consistent with those that are set in their ways. If I dare make the comparison, this is Mike Kennedy-level dishonesty cash-grab bullshit stuff.

Ok. First of all that wasn't a lie. You know I am very active on social media and I post stuff constantly and believe it or not I do have a life outside of Atari Jaguar and I am forgetful. I'm human. Like I said those prices weren't right anyway, it wasn't a final price. Im sorry if you guys think this is "cash grab bullshit" I have put a TON of hours and work into this game. Im still revising it because of the suggestions pointed out here. Nobody has recieved anything yet so Im making it right.

 

Shady.

 

Ok.

 

Mike Kennedy promised something took peoples money and delivered nothing. The one thing about me you can NOT deny is I DO deliver a product.

 

This is so irritating. Im trying my best to be nice but the things I want to say are pretty nasty right now.

 

Here I am promoting my new game and getting judged at every single post. Like jesus Christ these things suck the fun out of creating something makes you want to walk away and say the hell with it all.

Like come on already. Get a grip.

The only person in this whole forum who can judge me is omf.

What exactly is your issue now? Do you consider that I am the one putting the hours in and not you? Did you consider making a dreamcast or Jaguar game for all to enjoy? How much is your time worth to you? Do you put a price on it? Cash grab? Did you know I can probably whip a game up in about 2 days and sell it? Thats a CASH GRAB! I havent done that.

I have put in nearly a year on this project despite all of the ...... Whats the word....I will not go there.

Most would have stopped trying. EVERY SINGLE THING THAT WAS SUGGESTED WAS FIXED. EVERY SINGLE THING.

MULTIPLE DIRECTIONS FACING FROG

BAD SOUNDS

STROBING FROG

BLACK LINES

OBJECT PLACEMENT AND ORDER

DIFFICULTY PROGRSSION YES I ADDED THAT REGARDLESS OF EVERYONE IGNORING THAT FACT

AND IM STILL PUTTING MY PERSONAL TIME IN FIXING THINGS BEFORE I SHIP OUT TO BUYERS.

 

 

 

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?

 

WHAT MORE?

 

 

 

AAAAAAAND if you want to call Fast Food 64 a cash grab I call BS on that too because I CLEARLY STATED WHAT THAT PROJECT WAS ALL ABOUT WHEN I MADE IT. A 2 WEEK PROJECT THAT WAS THE TARGET TIME AND I DID IT IN 4 WEEKS. THE ROM WAS ALSO MADE AVAILABLE FOR FREE.

 

 

AND YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE? I LIKE FAST FOOD 64. ITS FUN. IM PROUD OF IT. I ENJOYED MAKING IT AND ENJOYED THE FEEDBACK FROM THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY BOUGHT IT FROM ME. Hell go watch the video reviews they are not angry and calling me shady. I actually play FF64 from time to time when Im not wasting my time arguing with people on here. In fact I have even posted videos of that in atari jaguar fans facebook page of me playing the game with my son.

 

 

Im not Ed Wood. Im not Mike Kennedy Im not George whoever the hell else you want to come up with

 

 

IM JEFFREY JOHNSON. I ENJOY CREATING GAMES. I ENJOY THE JAGUAR. I AM ONE OF THE PEOPLE PROVIDING NEW CONTENT FOR THE CONSOLE. I MAKE VIDEOS OF MY WORK IN PROGRESS AND UPDATE OFTEN SO POTENTIAL BUYERS CAN KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT FROM MY GAMES. I DO THIS IN MY FREE TIME BY MYSELF. THERE ARE NO GO FUND MES NOBINDIE GO GOS NO KICK STARTERS YOU DONT HAVE TO BUY ANYTHING FROM ME YOU DONT HAVE TO SPEND $1

 

IM JEFFREY JOHNSON

 

JEFFREY JOHNSON IS MY NAME NOBODY ELSE. NO MORE COMPARISONS THAT IS ANNOYING.

 

FACTS

Edited September 20, 2017 by Jeffrey_Bones

[+remowilliams]

<sigh>

I've been big into the Dreamcast community for years, and one thing's for sure: New releases are the best things for retro console communities. It's what we all wait for and get excited about. New game releases are met with nothing but positive energy and universal praise. If there's any negativity surrounding a release, there has to be a serious screw-up somewhere.

 

Yes, This. Exactly.

[Good_Times]

[Clint Thompson]

Can we just close this thread already? It's done.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

Can we just close this thread already? It's done.

I agree 100%. New members popping up just to shit on me and my game.

 

Thats so believable. Lets create an Atari Age account because I just have to speak up. Nice one. Probably Thom

Edited September 20, 2017 by Jeffrey_Bones

[+remowilliams]

Can we just close this thread already? It's done.

 

Might as well. It's apparent by now that there aren't going to be any lessons learned, or any evidence of even basic comprehension or acceptance of the overarching and very valid issues whatsoever.

 

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

Might as well. It's apparent by now that there aren't going to be any lessons learned, or any evidence of even basic comprehension or acceptance of the overarching and very valid issues whatsoever.

 

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Im going to call BS on that too because clearly there is a lesson to be learned here.

And that lesson isnt about me or my games Remo.