roland p Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 What would be cool is a box where you can just put your dc / ps2 / gc / xbox discs in, and just connect your dc / ps2 / gc / xbox joysticks to. And play games in 4k. It would be possible of course with tinkering, but I hate tinkering. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androvsky Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Heya, first post here. Some of you may know me from #NESdev, #GBdev, #N64dev, AssemblerGames, etc As I have founded a company, that has developed competitor product to this, that actually has a functioning prototype with much more support; I'll add my two cents. There's some niche market needs to these types of "in the middle" machines (meaning, these these types of systems that aren't just running roms into an emu, nor running the cart natively, thus middle). A lot of people have a nostalgic connection to the exact cartridges that they have spent many hours on, mainly because of SRAM data. Being able to continue your saved game, load up ghost data, and more, is a great thing (unless the batteries are dead). However, I have some strong professional doubts about this "RetroBlox" console, due to the things I've learned while actually forming a business to produce my product. I'll touch on these a bit later, as I don't want to be outright attacking these guys, but so far, I don't see any feasibility within their company. My two cents. Happy to finally be a part of AtariAge. Saying "Hello" from Hong Kong. -Lyth I don't know if I should feel better or worse about the time I've spent working on a working prototype of pretty much the exact same thing knowing there's at least two other companies doing it. :/ Oh well, there's multiple engineering paths to go down, and I've been wondering which I should pick. Maybe this will help me pick. A lot of the problems with their current press release might be cleared up in the Kickstarter, where we discover Sega CD is a stretch goal, for example. I do hope this does well; the community is already burned enough after the Chameleon, a second screw-up will just make selling a proper product vastly harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 What would be cool is a box where you can just put your dc / ps2 / gc / xbox discs in, and just connect your dc / ps2 / gc / xbox joysticks to. And play games in 4k. It would be possible of course with tinkering, but I hate tinkering. And make it fuss-free without all that "sign-up account" and "connect to server" nonsense that burdens consoles of today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyth Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 As with all good ideas, it's only a matter of time before you realize that someone is doing the same thing. However, by all means, you do you! Don't fret. See the market, find a niche, fill that niche. That's business! In regards to RetroBlox's CD support; my brain just keeps coming to the conclusion that it's an ARM or Intel based box with a USB DVD reader. Mind you, that's not always a bad thing, just something they should clarify and explain what their strengths are. Lastly, I completely agree with your statement about the chameleon. Another debacle of that sort, would even more hurt the credibility of the "kickstarter funded game console" marketing area, among other things. However, it'd made for a pretty nifty read, here on AA . I don't know if I should feel better or worse about the time I've spent working on a working prototype of pretty much the exact same thing knowing there's at least two other companies doing it. :/ Oh well, there's multiple engineering paths to go down, and I've been wondering which I should pick. Maybe this will help me pick. A lot of the problems with their current press release might be cleared up in the Kickstarter, where we discover Sega CD is a stretch goal, for example. I do hope this does well; the community is already burned enough after the Chameleon, a second screw-up will just make selling a proper product vastly harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Bryan from RetroBlox joined the forum yesterday. Welcome, Bryan! ..Al 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyth Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Should be fun. Batter up! Bryan from RetroBlox joined the forum yesterday. Welcome, Bryan! ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androvsky Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 As with all good ideas, it's only a matter of time before you realize that someone is doing the same thing. However, by all means, you do you! Don't fret. See the market, find a niche, fill that niche. That's business! In regards to RetroBlox's CD support; my brain just keeps coming to the conclusion that it's an ARM or Intel based box with a USB DVD reader. Mind you, that's not always a bad thing, just something they should clarify and explain what their strengths are. Lastly, I completely agree with your statement about the chameleon. Another debacle of that sort, would even more hurt the credibility of the "kickstarter funded game console" marketing area, among other things. However, it'd made for a pretty nifty read, here on AA . I appreciate the support. You're right, of course, I've even said anyone that's used both a Retron 5 and Retroarch would have the same idea. Or just a Retron 5 and any modern console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 In regards to RetroBlox's CD support; my brain just keeps coming to the conclusion that it's an ARM or Intel based box with a USB DVD reader. Mind you, that's not always a bad thing, just something they should clarify and explain what their strengths are. I hope it's something more inspiring than that. And I really wanna know what "hybrid emulation" means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatPix Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Good news! As I stated earlier, I like the idea on a console where you snap modules to read, maybe dump the content and he SRAM, maybe even rewrite the SRAM,where you can use your original controllers, etc. Tho for now the project try way too hard to hide itself under a wall of text that tells little. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyth Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) From working with this stuff, I would reckon "patented hybrid emulation technology" is simply just "cartridges + emulator", as it's a mix of emu + rom and console + cart. However, some things I'll share. 1) This most likely isn't patent-able, as a utility, function, feature, etc. Without going into much detail, there's three sides to consider. The legality side, OEM side, and existing products side. In a nutshell, there's most likely already official and unofficial products that use said "technology" and/or pieces that exists within it. Plus, a lot of the parts are made by various manufacturers (due to OEM prevalence in China). Lastly, lots of big brand companies such as Nintendo, hold patents over some pretty cool things. 2) Using a blanket marketing term "technology" is incredibly horrible to do. It pretty much just says "we have something to hide". and/or "this is nothing more than just words". Ever see those health products that say "Featuring ActiveX Health Technology"? These "technologies" allow them to put pretty much anything inside, for all you know, it could be just water. (See? Just fancy words) My suggestion to them would be to drop all the BS marketing speak, and talk real specs, real data, and show the real product. Of course, I'm not a patent lawyer or anything, but it doesn't take glasses to see through the smoke here. I hope it's something more inspiring than that. And I really wanna know what "hybrid emulation" means. Edited February 2, 2017 by Lyth 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Just remember, I'm asking you guys hold off on having any strong opinions until we know more about it, but this super ambitious project could be a game changer, and though I won't tell you the price or price range it will be very reasonable! Because we all learned our lessons the hard way and saw though Mike's bullshit (nobody else ever floated BS about it, certainly no youtubers) on the Coleco Chameleon! I'm in the know so far as what's coming out for this console (and just so happen to help market a games line already), so I'll have more EXCLUSIVE info later down the road, so subscribe to my channel! We're trying to be as transparent about this project as possible (clearly!) but there will not be a translucent plastic shell for the console. I'm $UPER excited about this! GoldenWheels81 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyth Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) Regardless of what you wish, people will speculate until they are provided with clear, concise, and honest information about the product. Even then, they will continue to speculate until they have the product in hand. Even after that, they will continue to speculate about the future of the product. This is human nature, as it stems from curiosity and a need to "fill in the blanks". If they don't want people to "jump to conclusions", then they shouldn't seemingly be following the same path of previous disasters. Super ambitious, it definitely us. Just hope they can share some real information, pictures, specifications, videos and more, soon. All in all, I'm excited to see a some-what direct competitor to my product, even though they're a bit behind on the race. We need more quality hardware in this market, for sure. (Some others on these forums have made absolutely splendid products, which is lovely and heartwarming to this market. Keep it up!) With that said, it's time for me to sleep. It's 3:23AM in Hong Kong. Night! Just remember, I'm asking you guys hold off on having any strong opinions until we know more about it, but this super ambitious project could be a game changer, and though I won't tell you the price or price range it will be very reasonable! Because we all learned our lessons the hard way and saw though Mike's bullshit (nobody else ever floated BS about it, certainly no youtubers) on the Coleco Chameleon! I'm in the know so far as what's coming out for this console (and just so happen to help market a games line already), so I'll have more EXCLUSIVE info later down the road, so subscribe to my channel! We're trying to be as transparent about this project as possible (clearly!) but there will not be a translucent plastic shell for the console. I'm $UPER excited about this! GoldenWheels81 Edited February 2, 2017 by Lyth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Regardless of what you wish, people will speculate until they are provided with clear, concise, and honest information about the product. Even then, they will continue to speculate until they have the product in hand. Even after that, they will continue to speculate about the future of the product. This is human nature, as it stems from curiosity and a need to "fill in the blanks". If they don't want people to "jump to conclusions", then they shouldn't seemingly be following the same path of previous disasters. Super ambitious, it definitely us. Just hope they can share some real information, pictures, specifications, videos and more, soon. All in all, I'm excited to see a some-what direct competitor to my product, even though they're a bit behind on the race. We need more quality hardware in this market, for sure. (Some others on these forums have made absolutely splendid products, which is lovely and heartwarming to this market. Keep it up!) With that said, it's time for me to sleep. It's 3:23AM in Hong Kong. Night! I was just being a facetious doofus, pulling real quotes from the video found on the previous page, whose maker promoted a previous disaster. I don't get bad jokes at normal times of day, so I don't blame you for missing that at 3:23! Go to sleep! And just my 2 cents for your project, which I wish all good things....don't employ or partner up with any youtubers ending in '81' to promote it. It reflects poorly on the project whether the project is good or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Is there any worthwhile profit in this business, unless your name is Nintendo or possibly AtGames or Retro-Bit? If several of you do it for the love of gaming, possibly some might benefit from joining forces instead of trying to beat eachother to the market. Or perhaps some just revaluate their options when they learn about the competition and that a majority of the potential buyers already are aware and alert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_convoy Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Retron 5 found a market; a Retron 5 plus discs, for lack of a better term, probably would, as well. The problems I foresee are: 1) Crowdfunding 2) Lack of support for a small install base if they only go thru crowdfunding 3) a nebulous online marketplace My Retron doesn't need an online store; you just download updates once in awhile. That's fine by me. I don't need a shitty OUYA type store with 900 bad games and a comparatively small handful of good ones. I want an easy to use system that properly upscales my actual retro games that I own (the 1080p thing already has me nervous; 720p makes more sense for sprite games, f'r instance), has minimal lag and lets me run patches and the like. People will undoubtedly want rom support, I can't say that'd be terrible. If it can play Sega CD, Turbo Duo and maybe Saturn (which seems unlikely, given where the emulation scene is for the Saturn) and NEO GEO CD games, the usefulness for me is very high; those are all systems I collect extensively for and, especially in the case of the Sega CD, are a bit finicky in real life, so an easy alternative to play on my big screen HDTV would be cool. The proof is going to be in the pudding. Beyond that, I own almost all the real hardware there is to own, so if it's not giving me those things, I don't need it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_convoy Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 A good egg on their forum asked something I hadn't even thought of: How are you dealing with the issue of needing a BIOS for many of the CD systems you claim to support? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romeoteknik Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 In my opinion, getting kinda tired of all these "ultimate" retro consoles, the AVS NES was the only 1 to live up to its expectations so far and it has Famicom/FDS support. After watching G81's video. 1 thought came to my mind. Why must the makers of this box go the crowdfunding way? These are "industry professionals" from big names right? Top dawgs? These guys made 6 figure incomes (no way they made pennies working for big names), they can't make it on their own money? RetroUSB made the AVS all on his own, produced videos along the way and then sold it. (this is the proper way IMO) You're telling me these "pros" have LESS money to invest than retroUSB had? Come on. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Love it! Anything with "industry veteran" attached to it is a warning sign. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatPix Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 A good egg on their forum asked something I hadn't even thought of: How are you dealing with the issue of needing a BIOS for many of the CD systems you claim to support? Good one! This probably confirm the removed bit about having an online store : if they want to offer PS1 support, they will have to secure a deal with Sony to obtain the PS1 BIOS... and of course, to sell it for us to use the PS1 emulation that is going to be in the console. Either this of having to buy a physical "PS1" add-on that will contain the PS1 BIOS and physical PS1 pads and memory cards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androvsky Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Good one! This probably confirm the removed bit about having an online store : if they want to offer PS1 support, they will have to secure a deal with Sony to obtain the PS1 BIOS... and of course, to sell it for us to use the PS1 emulation that is going to be in the console. Either this of having to buy a physical "PS1" add-on that will contain the PS1 BIOS and physical PS1 pads and memory cards. There are PS1 emulators that don't require a BIOS. This is what I was talking about Sega CD being a stretch goal, I'm not aware of any Sega CD emu that doesn't need a genuine BIOS. Same problem with many of the other CD systems, mainly it's PS1 and Saturn in the clear. But with enough money and engineering, they can reverse engineer those BIOSs. It'll be hard to do, and they'll probably have to rely on the community some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatPix Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Last time I tried a PS1 emulator it needed a BIOS, but heh, haven't checked in a long time Still it doesn't change the fact that some other CD-based system will require a BIOS or other things to work - 3DO have it's own OS to boot, and the CD-i use OS/9, and I doubt that you'll be able to reverse engineer those systems without some outcry - especially from Microware that still sell OS/9, they probably wo'nt get amused if someone reverse engineer their system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) ....Can't wait to "learn" that CollectorVision is selling Tiny Knight on their digital storefront. Not going to happen Edited February 2, 2017 by retroillucid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 They're not making these anymore, but I'll bet you could still get one. Seems like the long way around if you're just going to run emulators, though -- why not just use a ROM file? http://retrode.com http://forum.retrode.org/index.php?topic=333.0 Oh, I do, I'm just saying in comparison to this project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_convoy Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 There are PS1 emulators that don't require a BIOS. This is what I was talking about Sega CD being a stretch goal, I'm not aware of any Sega CD emu that doesn't need a genuine BIOS. Same problem with many of the other CD systems, mainly it's PS1 and Saturn in the clear. But with enough money and engineering, they can reverse engineer those BIOSs. It'll be hard to do, and they'll probably have to rely on the community some. Last time I tried a PS1 emulator it needed a BIOS, but heh, haven't checked in a long time Still it doesn't change the fact that some other CD-based system will require a BIOS or other things to work - 3DO have it's own OS to boot, and the CD-i use OS/9, and I doubt that you'll be able to reverse engineer those systems without some outcry - especially from Microware that still sell OS/9, they probably wo'nt get amused if someone reverse engineer their system. The likely outcome of this will be "supply your own," methinks. Not going to happen Cool; I'd hate to think John was shilling for something without disclosing involvement again. Forgive my cynicism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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