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Retroblox


omnispiro

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True, but you can rig up a simple circuit to make a cd drive "work"

 

True. But I'm trying to think big picture. We don't know what's in there, several knowledgeable people here agree whatever it is it's probably not what they're advertising. So if they put fake hardware in there then why go through the trouble of fitting the CD drive?

 

And why did it spit out the disc at that moment? It didn't seem like the person working the console selected that. On the contrary he was going into the library of what were apparently preloaded games. I don't have to pull out my Chewbacca poster to demonstrate that doesn't make sense.

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Issue isn't about disk emulation since nothing is changing from other Sega CD emulations as CD reading is very easy to do

 

Most people want a FX Chip Cart being played directly or Virtua Racing

it is never, ever gonna happen. Coleco 2: Electric Boogaloo might be able to dump the games and run them, if it's in the list (ala retron 5) but it will never run an actual cartridge without dumping it IMO.

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I have yet to see any footage that would prove this thing was actually reading a cartridge or a CD and not just pre-installed roms.

Yep!

 

While there's always something about Gamester81 that makes me feel like I've accidentally wandered into a Used Car Dealership, and I keep on wanting to check that my wallet is still in my pocket ... the geek that he was talking to seemed nice enough.

 

Not that that actually says *anything* about the reality of the product itself.

 

Having read Kevtris's post, I could argue a point-or-two about the little details ... but the overall conclusion is coming from someone that I respect, and a person that has had to deal with all of the "practical" details that can cause a project to sink or swim.

 

I took a look at the RK3288 specs, and the chip only has 32KB L1-cache per core, and a shared 1MB shared L2-cache.

 

That seems to torpedo any "clever" little ideas that I might have had about how you could actually implement stuff in the way that I've theorized, and that's even if these guys had spent years writing bare-metal emulators rather than being a Producer & His Programming Buddy.

 

The likelihiood that everything is just an overhyped modification to a bunch of existing emulator software just got a LOT higher, IMHO.

 

I'm still not 100% counting-out the possibility that they've done something nice, and that it actually runs (only time, and real proof, will make that clear), but the thought that they've actually come up with something "revolutionary" seems to be speeding off towards the horizon.

 

I just hope that Kevtris will eventually have the time and desire to finish off the Zimba3K, and make the hi-def SuperGrafx-ArcadeCard-CD FPGA emulator that I've been wanting for many years.

 

These guys ... meh.

 

I can run a software-emulator on so many other pieces of cheaper and more-convenient hardware.

 

Or just plug in the REAL-THING (apologies to the Coka-Cola Company ... please don't sue me off the planet! ;) ).

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it is never, ever gonna happen. Coleco 2: Electric Boogaloo might be able to dump the games and run them, if it's in the list (ala retron 5) but it will never run an actual cartridge without dumping it IMO.

Exactly

They are claiming something that is very difficult which anyone else would be offering peeps everyday till their kick-starter launch's

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it is never, ever gonna happen. Coleco 2: Electric Boogaloo might be able to dump the games and run them, if it's in the list (ala retron 5) but it will never run an actual cartridge without dumping it IMO.

 

From how I read their sales-pitch, that seems to be what they're promising.

 

It'll be amusing to sit back and see how they go about trying to justify those claims, and whether they fail, or whether they succeed (unlikely, but then again, I *could* *potentially* have the winning SuperLotto ticket),

 

Whatever happens ... I really hate softball partisan infomercials like Gamester81's video. It makes my skin crawl.

 

He was practically salivating with his "I'm a Game Developer with a Homebrew Game" comment.

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Regardless of their emulation, the fact that your games are being "encrypted and signed to the individual user of the system so that they are exclusively useable on that one account." by God knows what method turns me off. Does this mean they are tied to the card, the console, or some Retrobox user account ID? And, more importantly, how is this checked? Online? Sounds to me like the whole system is just a trojan horse for their OUYA-style online shop. No thanks.

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I assume that people will have to find and download the CD system bios files for themselves or there are legal issues.

Violates the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act also by downloading your Carts to the machine

Also would violates the EU's WIPO and around 20-40 other nations laws

 

Just wondering who would want to buy a system that ownership alone could be a crime

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Regardless of their emulation, the fact that your games are being "encrypted and signed to the individual user of the system so that they are exclusively useable on that one account." by God knows what method turns me off. Does this mean they are tied to the card, the console, or some Retrobox user account ID? And, more importantly, how is this checked? Online? Sounds to me like the whole system is just a trojan horse for their OUYA-style online shop. No thanks.

To the manufacturers it is a necessary evil so that they can't be accused of condoning piracy. The Retro Freak encrypted dumped ROMs. The Retron 5 only dumped to RAM and never saved the ROM at all, likely due to DCMA. I really hate that stupid law, but it doesn't stop people from tinkering around on PC. I can still rip DVDs for personal use using software I downloaded from the Internet, but the law says I can't. Yet CD ripping is still acceptable. It's bullcrap.

 

I get these guys want to release a system that does all that, but in reality it's just a premium option to the Retron or Freak. I imagine their Kickstarter will be a success, but I'm holding out for the Zimba device. It would not surprise me if they rescind their "plays homebrew and Super Game Boy" bit after release, because they realised at some point it wasn't feasible within budget. And I do like the idea of the store, but with highly acclaimed and commercial projects like Ouya failing, how do we know some upstart will do any better? Maybe they get a few dozen downloads before they turn off the server because they aren't making enough revenue to run it.

 

Retroblox really is Cameleon 2.0, only run by guys who are actually competent. But more than likely we will end up paying a premium for yet another emulation + dumper device, when we could have just bought a Raspberry Pi 3 ($40), enclosure ($10 & up), an SD card ($5 & up) some USB adapters for our favorite consoles ($10-$20 each), and have an emulation box under $100. :P

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Violates the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act also by downloading your Carts to the machine

Also would violates the EU's WIPO and around 20-40 other nations laws

 

Just wondering who would want to buy a system that ownership alone could be a crime

You're not committing a crime until you chose to download the files off the internet, or distribute the stuff you dumped. DCMA can suck it. We have something called "fair use" and it's been around long before DCMA ever existed.

 

A PC can be used to commit cyber crimes, but they are legal. Heck even a Xerox machine can be used in an infringing manner. A crow bar or bolt cutter are popular tools for burglary, yet you can go buy one at a hardware store and haven't broken any laws, nor is the hardware store that sold it responsible for your actions. Maybe Best Buy should also stop selling boom boxes because they might be used to disturb the peace. A car can be used to break the speed limit or be operated in a reckless manner, heck even kill people, yet they are legal. Guns and weapons specifically designed to kill, are legal to own and operate. Lowes and Home Depot sell metal pipe fittings and end caps. Bass Pro sells black powder. Hmm what could I make with those? I mean really any legal device or product has potential to violate some law if used improperly. Nobody is committing a crime until the end user explicitly decides to do so.

 

That's why the DCMA laws are bullcrap. If a software or device that has potential to infringe copyright or aid and abet users in violating copyright law, and are banned as a result, then by gosh any product offered for sale that has potential to be used in any manner inconsistent with the law must also be banned.

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Violates the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act also by downloading your Carts to the machine

Also would violates the EU's WIPO and around 20-40 other nations laws

 

Just wondering who would want to buy a system that ownership alone could be a crime

DMCA is about circumventing digital rights management technology. What systems and what DRM is being violated here? The NES lockout chip for example, is about locking out access to the player not the software. Copyright law may be considered when dumping a cartridge rom. But has any court ruled against someone playing a cartridge that they lawfully own this way?
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DMCA is about circumventing digital rights management technology. What systems and what DRM is being violated here? The NES lockout chip for example, is about locking out access to the player not the software. Copyright law may be considered when dumping a cartridge rom. But has any court ruled against someone playing a cartridge that they lawfully own this way?

In some ass-backwards way, devices like the Retron5 sort of legitimized emulation, Virtual Console not withstanding. Nevermind the fact they blatantly stole from people and got away with it primarily because nobody could afford lawyers to sue them. Back to the point in hand, you dump the cart and it runs the ROM in an emulator, but the instant you remove the cart, you are booted out of the game. The game ROM is only stored in volatile memory while the cart is physically connected, so there is no actual backup being performed.

 

The Retrofreak goes a step further by encrypting the ROM for safe keeping, preventing the user from redistributing it, and so far nobody has succeeded to break the encryption. It is funny, the hacker community loaded unauthorized software on Nintendo's own NES Mini much faster than they figured out the Retron. Some dude I believe had other systems like N64 running poorly on the Retron but never redistributed the patch.

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DMCA is about circumventing digital rights management technology. What systems and what DRM is being violated here? The NES lockout chip for example, is about locking out access to the player not the software. Copyright law may be considered when dumping a cartridge rom. But has any court ruled against someone playing a cartridge that they lawfully own this way?

Same silliness of a number sting being used on DVD's to prevent access

 

"But has any court ruled against someone playing a cartridge that they lawfully own this way?"

Yes and No as most courts view it as a civil court issue or don't care but that doesn't mean Law enforcement can't seize it

Edited by enoofu
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All these microconsoles.. Seems like they're at least attempting to fulfill the wants of the true retrogamer. Seems they're stepping up to the plate when the official major mfgs aren't even listening.

Oh, bullshit. Just because they aren't making pirate boxes doesn't mean they're not in the game. "The true retrogamer" as you see it is probably not a customer worth chasing, because they don't want to spend any money.

 

http://www.nintendo.com/switch/

https://www.nintendo.com/games/virtual-console-games

http://www.nintendo.com/nes-classic/

http://www.atgames.us/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

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Oh, bullshit. Just because they aren't making pirate boxes doesn't mean they're not in the game. "The true retrogamer" as you see it is probably not a customer worth chasing, because they don't want to spend any money.

Economies of scale. The nicer and more expensive the device, the less people will buy it. Henxe why all the janky cheap clone systems are utter garbage but they continue to sell. Sad really...
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Same silliness of a number sting being used on DVD's to prevent access

 

"But has any court ruled against someone playing a cartridge that they lawfully own this way?"

Yes and No as most courts view it as a civil court issue or don't care but that doesn't mean Law enforcement can't seize it

On what grounds would it be seized? Rom dumpers are not illegal. And I'm not aware of it doing any drm circumvention.
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No worries. Just take the attitude of "buy it when it comes out". That's the best insurance against any kickstarter trickery.

 

THIS! Or pick a reward that just includes the system at a reasonable price.

 

I have yet to see any footage that would prove this thing was actually reading a cartridge or a CD and not just pre-installed roms.

 

Seriously? These guys are industry professionals, not a website owner who sells magazines.

 

Supposedly AtGames is doing two tiers of the Sega and Atari stuff this year. I'm willing to spend a little more for something nicer. Not Analogue NT money, but not Dollar General, either.

 

First I've heard. Is there a thread for this???

 

-------------------------

 

I think the issue here is that the modules will likely cost too much. If they're like $40, it might make sense for the casual gaming fan. People need to understand that a LOT of people just want to play old games on their new TV's. They don't want the hassle of configuring themselves, using a PC or a modded Xbox. For most, finding an old classic system is not desirable. At Games has been separate systems as toys. This *could* have a market, but price will dictate.

Edited by Greg2600
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