Retroblox

[Newsdee]

I can say one thing for this project though- this is far more hardware than the retro vgs/coleco chameleon or the ataribox has shown to date!

Indeed! I just saw that video they posted. I wonder if their design is to have one base board that just handles video, sound, and some basic inputs, and the actual console/cores (with RAM and other necessaey chips) are supposed to be inside each module.

[kevtris]

maybe. If so, it sounds expensive. Having level translators on the main board (and RAM, etc) would make a lot more sense from a cost perspective. The adapters should be "dumb" pin converters and little else; just enough hardware to interface to the carts/controllers.

 

The board they showed seems to be just some kind of development board without any form of audio or video on it which is what has me scratching my head. I don't see a defined purpose that it serves in its current form. Granted, not being able to see the bottom means there could be more useful parts there but without any connectors of merit on the top I am not so sure. Guess we gotta wait until more info comes out to know for sure.

[atmn]

You say there must be another board somewhere since this is missing things, like audio..

 

Could it be a SOC-part on each block. They take what is good each SOC and combine it with software emulation. Like NOAC are alright, but the sound is way off. Could the sound go through software and video through the NOAC? Sounds like an impossible task.

Since they have stated that everything the original systems play the retroblox will play. Must be FPGA or SOC.

 

Im just trying to figure out what this 50/50 hybrid emulation are..

[godslabrat]

maybe. If so, it sounds expensive. Having level translators on the main board (and RAM, etc) would make a lot more sense from a cost perspective. The adapters should be "dumb" pin converters and little else; just enough hardware to interface to the carts/controllers.

 

The board they showed seems to be just some kind of development board without any form of audio or video on it which is what has me scratching my head. I don't see a defined purpose that it serves in its current form. Granted, not being able to see the bottom means there could be more useful parts there but without any connectors of merit on the top I am not so sure. Guess we gotta wait until more info comes out to know for sure.

It might not be the way things "should" be, but the theory would mesh with the "module" aspect of the design. Poly has always said that the modules would contain processing capability, or at least, not contradicted the suggestion. Even when it wa pointed out this complicated matters, the necessity of this design element was insisted upon.

 

The bottom line is... what do the results look like? I'm actually *really* excited that something tangible has surfaced, but there's still plenty of skepticism left on the pile.

[Flojomojo]

I don't see a defined purpose that it serves in its current form.

To show the haters and doubters that they're doing something? You know, like the RetroVGS manufacturing process from a few years ago.

[Keatah]

Isn't there a ram/dimm socket area visible? Or am I not remembering correctly..

[roland p]

What is the machine doing?

 

Lots of positive responses to the video. They all 'want one', they probably know what it actually is? Are those real accounts?

To show the haters and doubters that they're doing something? You know, like the RetroVGS manufacturing process from a few years ago.

 

True, history teaches us these kind of teasers are always scammy. Maybe they asked someone to create a random pcb with just their name ('Polymega') on it, who knows?

Edited April 24, 2018 by roland p

[Flojomojo]

It's easy enough to delete negative comments. Or maybe everyone loves them that much?

 

 

Maybe they asked someone to create a random pcb with just their name ('Polymega') on it, who knows?

 

heh, maybe it's a video capture card.

 

[kevtris]

Here's a little marked up picture from that video they posted. This is all just wild-ass guesses so take with a grain of salt. The 240 DIMM connection on the bottom edge seems to be right, though.

 

 

Not sure why they put those .1" headers so close to the BGA chip like that, it would make routing a huge pain since those pins go all the way through the board, impeding the routing of any signals that have to go by there. The BGA chip appears to be 484 balls which is one of the common sizes of package for the cyclone series of FPGAs. The total lack of connectors is still fairly odd to me, just power, the DIMM 240 edge, and the two connectors for what I suspect would be the adapters.

 

Compare that DIMM 240 edge with a typical computer DIMM:

 

 

The cuts in the sides for the locking mechanism and the voltage key cutout are present. Using a DIMM socket would make sense from a financial standpoint for testing, since it's high speed / high density. But this means this board obviously plugs into something else, which most likely has the SoC "brains" and A/V outputs. It would probably not be a good idea for production, though.

 

The DIMM formfactor is 133mm wide, and one of those .1" headers is 12 pins, which would be 1.1" or 28mm wide. Counting pixels, the header is about 185 pixels wide while the dimm edge is about 883. The pic is at a slight angle so there will be some error, but this gives a ratio of 4.77:1. The actual measurements (133mm/28mm) is 4.75:1. So this is a fairly good match, considering the angles involved and the potatocam quality.

 

Edit: I was thinking about their 14 layer claim and I think it's gotta be a mistake. The DIMM-240 is 1.2mm thick or so, which is not enough thickness for a 14 layer PCB. The thinnest typical 14 layer board I could find was 2.36mm, so either they are going to have a rude awakening when this won't plug into a socket, or the layer count is wrong, or they somehow have some different connector that can accept a PCB over 1mm thicker than usual.

 

The absolute thinnest PCB possible in 14 layers would be composed of 27 layers: 14 copper foil layers and 13 layers of "prepreg" which is the fiberglass material. The thinnest commonly available prepreg I could find was 0.09mm thick. 13 layers of this is 1.17mm which is nearly the full 1.2mm thickness, not counting the copper layers. 1/2 ounce copper is 0.017mm thick, so 14 of those adds another .238mm, for a total of 1.408mm. Most board places would rather make the board as separate 2 layer PCB sections and then laminate those with the prepreg, which is easier and cheaper and is why a typical board would be thicker than this theoretical minimum. It miiiight be possible to get 14 layers in 1.2mm using exotic materials, but the cost would be stratospheric.

[Greg2600]

Somebody give me a ring when there's a product to consider buying or not...

[androvsky]

The absolute thinnest PCB possible in 14 layers would be composed of 27 layers: 14 copper foil layers and 13 layers of "prepreg" which is the fiberglass material.

I wonder if the latter number is what they're quoting and the board is really 6 or 7 layers.

[godslabrat]

 

@kevtris

 

This was posted... it's their layering on the PCB. I have a feeling it was posted for your benefit

 

 

 

 

[cacophony]

Here's a little marked up picture from that video they posted. ...

 

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the layering diagram that was posted above

[kevtris]

@kevtris

 

This was posted... it's their layering on the PCB. I have a feeling it was posted for your benefit

 

 

 

 

5BEC57B4-5FB6-4D36-AD9D-017C3FDFDAF0.png

 

Yeah guess they really do have 14 layers. I hate to wonder how much that cost to fab. If there's just a 484 ball BGA and little else on the bottom (i.e. bypass caps, some level translators and other misc stuff) then it's about 8 layers too many. If there's an SoC on the bottom then about 4-6 layers too many. Getting the board down that thin and that many layers must've been a bank breaker. If it's just development I guess it's fine though.

[godslabrat]

 

Yeah guess they really do have 14 layers. I hate to wonder how much that cost to fab. If there's just a 484 ball BGA and little else on the bottom (i.e. bypass caps, some level translators and other misc stuff) then it's about 8 layers too many. If there's an SoC on the bottom then about 4-6 layers too many. Getting the board down that thin and that many layers must've been a bank breaker. If it's just development I guess it's fine though.

Good to know. Still a LOT of nagging questions, a LOT of things that don't add up... but this is the kind of thing that gives them credibility. Stuff like this makes "wait and see" a sensible proposition.

[Flojomojo]

[leods]

Oh, So Kevtris said the Polymega is fine? Where do I pre-order? Fllojomojo, thans for the heads up. I missed that.

 

Wait. Are they claiming to be the first HD modular retro game console? The Retro Freak already did that, didn't they? I mean, they only have 2 possible modules out, but it's still a modular design.

[kevtris]

Good to know. Still a LOT of nagging questions, a LOT of things that don't add up... but this is the kind of thing that gives them credibility. Stuff like this makes "wait and see" a sensible proposition.

We've been doing a lot of "waiting" and not much "Seeing" though. I'm real curious to see the bottom of that board, and what this board plugs into.

[kevtris]

PolyMegaTris.PNG

looool! Is this like Krusty the Klown's endorsement of the Ribwich? "I don't mind the taste!"

[Flojomojo]

[godslabrat]

Pat and Ian weigh in: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bZgfxUbPeu8

 

Biggest point they'd like to make is that the new breed of FPGA clones released since the announcement have made the PolyMega a much different proposition than it was originally. The value that might have been offered is, maybe, no longer there for some people. They also assume it will be traditional emulation, and are either unaware of (or not accepting) the "hybrid" concept.

[kevtris]

A friend found this. wonder if they got the idea from here? It's a two-part board; a plug in part and the base part, called the "larg" (cringe at the name). The base + plugin looks like this:

 

 

The plugin board itself:

 

 

And a flyer about the system here (with a few more pics)

 

https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/762/LARG2_FLYER-962367.pdf

[Jaguarandine]

This seems like a logical assumption, but I remember seeing months ago in their forums that they were using the RK3288 SoC. They could use both, but that seems expensive. Also, if each module is $50-$60, I wonder if that's still cost-effective?

 

Edit: I searched the thread looking for mentions of the SoC and it seems like it's a well known detail here. If the Polymega can somehow include the RK3288 in dock/break-out-board and the Altera FPGA in the module, then that would be amazing. Using just the FPGA would make more sense cost-wise (and signal recognition of successful systems like the Super Nt) and it would still be very cool. I just don't see how this going to be cheap though, unless they are mass producing it. Fingers crossed that they know what they're doing.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Jaguarandine

[tecmocerealbowl]

I saw a post recently wondering if all the positive reception to the video showing the circuit board was real. I can speak for myself and say my response was tepid. I have an account on Polymega and check the forums a couple times a week. I'd say I've had half or more of my posts on forums not show up, including one on that exact thread. The reason why I don't know. My response to the console has gone from a lot of enthusiasm about the concept to wondering why Polymega kept missing deadlines where they promised more information. The forums are really relatively inactive as there's been so little information for an extended period of time. The only way I can see the Polymega picking up steam is if there's a major push of information all at once. It's really quite a Nintendo level of tease, except in Nintendo's case they just say we'll show when we're ready and people are brimming over with anticipation. This is an unproven brand/product that, at least as building a customer and fan base goes, has been mishandled. No one expects a small company to be the end all be all of game companies, but their level of engagement has been very sub-par. I'm keeping my fingers crossed though, because I still like the concept, and if compatibility and lag issues are as minimal as humanly possible, this could be a great product to bring retro gaming from a number of generations into the modern age.

Edited May 4, 2018 by tecmocerealbowl

[godslabrat]

I saw a post recently wondering if all the positive reception to the video showing the circuit board was real. I can speak for myself and say my response was tepid. I have an account on Polymega and check the forums a couple times a week. I'd say I've had half or more of my posts on forums not show up, including one on that exact thread. The reason why I don't know. My response to the console has gone from a lot of enthusiasm about the concept to wondering why Polymega kept missing deadlines where they promised more information. The forums are really relatively inactive as there's been so little information for an extended period of time. The only way I can see the Polymega picking up steam is if there's a major push of information all at once. It's really quite a Nintendo level of tease, except in Nintendo's case they just say we'll show when we're ready and people are brimming over with anticipation. This is an unproven brand/product that, at least as building a customer and fan base goes, has been mishandled. No one expects a small company to be the end all be all of game companies, but their level of engagement has been very sub-par. I'm keeping my fingers crossed though, because I still like the concept, and if compatibility and lag issues are as minimal as humanly possible, this could be a great product to bring retro gaming from a number of generations into the modern age.

Well said. Let me assume the most optimistic view and the most charitable one toward PM, for a moment. Let's say they release their system, it does everything they say it will, and is totally legal, and supports everything they promise and more. Hypothetically speaking.

 

We still have a year+ development period where updates were promised and not delivered and where the company engaged with blogs but never their own customer base. If the product is a smash hit, then their big mistake is still ignoring the interest of their market.

 

And if the product isn't what was promised.... well, then the problems magnify. I really, really want this to be awesome, but it's practically going to have to be a Sampo at this point.