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Joystick Port interfacing - TI BASIC & CONSOLE ONLY


Meddler

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If you really are just limiting yourself to the joystick port and TI BASIC, I would think that any mouse (whatever the interface/protocol) would have such jittery movement that it would be impossible (or very annoying) to use. Any 'modern' mouse has a resolution of probably 200 dpi or more, and BASIC trying to read and decode the protocol at any sensible mouse movement speed just isn't going to happen. If you're working in assembly however you can get a reasonable response ... http://www.stuartconner.me.uk/ti/ti.htm#connecting_serial_mouse.

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If CALL IO is that versatile then could it be used to decode the PS/2 protocol? So much easier than re-inventing the wheel (mouse) and we get a full keyboard too so no conflict with the internal keyboard.

That said, the reason all peripherals have their own DSR etc. is to avoid using console memory in which case I stand by my suggestion of using the side bus port.

Mean-while let us see who spots that I typed 9902 instead of 9901 and we can nominate them as they obviously know a thing or two. ;)

Actually yea it would help. As the IO (Input/Output chip) gives you direct access to the CRU lines on keyboard that also are tied to the joystick port.

 

If you are using CALL IO to scan for inputs then when you use the joysticks it should return values into A and B variables as I demonstrated.

 

This video is using RXB and talking to devices with RXB CALL IO

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This is off topic but I need to know and I think you know the answer.

 

Joystick port on console. Pins 2 and 7 are output the rest are input. Is that true? I'm trying to figure out what direction to install diodes on all lines except 2 and 7. Thanks for your help.

Edited by Sinphaltimus
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This is off topic but I need to know and I think you know the answer.

 

Joystick port on console. Pins 2 and 7 are output the rest are input. Is that true? I'm trying to figure out what direction to install diodes on all lines except 2 and 7. Thanks for your help.

All keyboard inputs (i.e including Joystick) are held 'high' by 10K resistor to +5v and are strobed 'low' to activate therefore anode to inputs -I>I-+ cathode to output.

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If you really are just limiting yourself to the joystick port and TI BASIC, I would think that any mouse (whatever the interface/protocol) would have such jittery movement that it would be impossible (or very annoying) to use. Any 'modern' mouse has a resolution of probably 200 dpi or more, and BASIC trying to read and decode the protocol at any sensible mouse movement speed just isn't going to happen. If you're working in assembly however you can get a reasonable response ... http://www.stuartconner.me.uk/ti/ti.htm#connecting_serial_mouse.

I agree that a proper interface makes more sense (joystick port mouse not my idea, btw) but the 200dpi of the "mouse" is not relevant as that is the resolution of the "mouse" not the screen i.e scaling would be required to suit any particular screen resolution and you are also right in that to get smooth(ish) movement would require direct drive at bitmap level. Not a difficult task really, hence my question to/on RXB.

Limited to the Joystick port and BASIC means that you might as well use the joystick as a mouse using the existing methods, jumping one square at a time.

Using XB ACCEPT AT & DISPLAY AT provides more realistic "mouse" operation but we are now getting far beyond the initial scope of the post.

Edited by Meddler
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I agree that a proper interface makes more sense (joystick port mouse not my idea, btw) but the 200dpi of the "mouse" is not relevant as that is the resolution of the "mouse" not the screen i.e scaling would be required to suit any particular screen resolution and you are also right in that to get smooth(ish) movement would require direct drive at bitmap level. Not a difficult task really, hence my question to/on RXB.

Limited to the Joystick port and BASIC means that you might as well use the joystick as a mouse using the existing methods, jumping one square at a time.

Using XB ACCEPT AT & DISPLAY AT provides more realistic "mouse" operation but we are now getting far beyond the initial scope of the post.

Ok first off RXB is NOT BASIC, it is a UPGRADED version of Extended Basic.

 

Secondly it would use a Spite for a mouse CURSOR.

 

Thrid RXB has CALL IO that allows direct access to the 9901 Input/Output CRU chip.

 

I have no idea why you think we need to jump one character at a time on screen when we can use auto motion sprites.

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...

 

I have no idea why you think we need to jump one character at a time on screen when we can use auto motion sprites.

 

That would be because Sprites are not available to TI BASIC & CONSOLE ONLY users

which is the challenge of this post so, unless RXB can be loaded to a basic console then your comments have no place on this thread.

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That would be because Sprites are not available to TI BASIC & CONSOLE ONLY users

which is the challenge of this post so, unless RXB can be loaded to a basic console then your comments have no place on this thread.

Why can't you put a RXB Cartridge into the Cartridge Slot?

(You do not need a 32K to use RXB)

 

Why would you even want to use TI Basic and RXB can run TI Basic programs already and faster?

 

This strikes me like asking figure out how to make your car drive on 3 wheels when what is the point?

 

Is this some kind of silly challenge that has zero value?

Edited by RXB
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If you really are just limiting yourself to the joystick port and TI BASIC, I would think that any mouse (whatever the interface/protocol) would have such jittery movement that it would be impossible (or very annoying) to use. ...

Hi, I found this, same video chip:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/203933-how-do-coleco-games-smooth-scroll/?hl=%20smooth%20%20scroll&do=findComment&comment=2616436

 

There is nothing new under the Sun!!

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Why can't you put a RXB Cartridge into the Cartridge Slot?

(You do not need a 32K to use RXB)

 

Why would you even want to use TI Basic and RXB can run TI Basic programs already and faster?

 

This strikes me like asking figure out how to make your car drive on 3 wheels when what is the point?

 

Is this some kind of silly challenge that has zero value?

Why would anyone use a TI99 these days? My desktop computer was in the trash when I rescued it. It is 1000 to 1,000,000 times more powerful than the TI99 and cost nothing.

Of course, everyone here has a different reason for using the TI. Nostalgia is a factor for many of us. For most of us it is the challenge of doing something useful with a computer design that is 36+ years old. This takes many forms. Some people like to extend the hardware limitations (SAMS, F18A, HRD etc.) Some, like me, take a middle ground, using only XB, a disk drive and 32K. Others like to see what can be done using the simplest system possible - a bare console and a tape drive. Since this whole hobby is a colossal waste of time anyway, what is wrong with working with such a simple system?

Edited by senior_falcon
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Why would anyone use a TI99 these days? My desktop computer was in the trash when I rescued it. It is 1000 to 1,000,000 times more powerful than the TI99 and cost nothing.

Of course, everyone here has a different reason for using the TI. Nostalgia is a factor for many of us. For most of us it is the challenge of doing something useful with a computer design that is 36+ years old. This takes many forms. Some people like to extend the hardware limitations (SAMS, F18A, HRD etc.) Some, like me, take a middle ground, using only XB, a disk drive and 32K. Others like to see what can be done using the simplest system possible - a bare console and a tape drive. Since this whole hobby is a colossal waste of time anyway, what is wrong with working with such a simple system?

 

Very well said. There is no right or wrong way to use a TI... just as long is it gets used!

But... by definition a hobby is something enjoyable done in one's free time, so if it's enjoyable how can it be a colossal waste of time?

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Why would anyone use a TI99 these days? My desktop computer was in the trash when I rescued it. It is 1000 to 1,000,000 times more powerful than the TI99 and cost nothing.

Of course, everyone here has a different reason for using the TI. Nostalgia is a factor for many of us. For most of us it is the challenge of doing something useful with a computer design that is 36+ years old. This takes many forms. Some people like to extend the hardware limitations (SAMS, F18A, HRD etc.) Some, like me, take a middle ground, using only XB, a disk drive and 32K. Others like to see what can be done using the simplest system possible - a bare console and a tape drive. Since this whole hobby is a colossal waste of time anyway, what is wrong with working with such a simple system?

Mine is because there's just *something* about having 35+ year old technology connected and still working, and able to do things (even if they're not fancy). My wife agrees if I spend my mid-life crisis dorking around with my TI, she's fine with seeing the Paypal charges periodically on our bank statement. ;)

 

Physically using it appeals to the 'tactile' part of my personality, and collecting carts/disks appeals to my 'completionist' nature. :)

 

I was teaching myself Assembler, but I've put that on hold until I can get through some stuff that's occupying my time for work (studying for CCNA)

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Why would anyone use a TI99 these days? My desktop computer was in the trash when I rescued it. It is 1000 to 1,000,000 times more powerful than the TI99 and cost nothing.

Of course, everyone here has a different reason for using the TI. Nostalgia is a factor for many of us. For most of us it is the challenge of doing something useful with a computer design that is 36+ years old. This takes many forms. Some people like to extend the hardware limitations (SAMS, F18A, HRD etc.) Some, like me, take a middle ground, using only XB, a disk drive and 32K. Others like to see what can be done using the simplest system possible - a bare console and a tape drive. Since this whole hobby is a colossal waste of time anyway, what is wrong with working with such a simple system?

1. You have NO SUPPORT FOR SPRITES IN TI BASIC....NONE! (XB and Assembly does have support for Sprites.)

2. You have NO SUPPORT FOR ASSEMBLY IN TI BASIC....NONE! (Unless you put in a cartridge or device to do that.)

 

I am only pointing out the obvious factors in limitation of console only joystick support.

Unless you are talking major hardware and software modifications.

 

But then that ignores the original post does it not?

Edited by RXB
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  • 2 months later...

Addendum 2:

I have simplified the 555 H-Bridge driver as I realized that an extra 555 can provide the reset function and no voltage level conversion is required to allow a power supply up to 15v.

The two Joystick outputs are applied to Trigger one of two 555 I.Cs and is reset by triggering the other; the momentary action of both outputs being 'high' is detected by the third 555 which acts as an inverting Schmitt driver using the 2/3 & 1/3 switching points i.e triggered when above 2/3 Vcc and released when below 1/3 Vcc

I had inserted a Schmitt trigger circuit as the simple principle of detecting both outputs being 'high' cannot guarantee that both 555's will reset.

Anyway, the simplified drawing is attached:Differential_555.bmp Differential_555.bmp
J1 & J2 are connected to the Trigger pins 2 and Dual or differential drive can be connected to respective Output pins 3. The Diodes shown on the outputs are likely to be necessary for inductive loads.

p.s I have figured out how to drive multiple outputs from one Joystick output.

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  • 4 months later...

Addendum 2:

 

I have simplified the 555 H-Bridge driver as I realized that an extra 555 can provide the reset function and no voltage level conversion is required to allow a power supply up to 15v.

 

The two Joystick outputs are applied to Trigger one of two 555 I.Cs and is reset by triggering the other; the momentary action of both outputs being 'high' is detected by the third 555 which acts as an inverting Schmitt driver using the 2/3 & 1/3 switching points i.e triggered when above 2/3 Vcc and released when below 1/3 Vcc

 

Ahem! Addendum 3: :grin:

I have a revised diagram as whilst the theory was fine, when I got around to trying this, it is unlikely that the 'trigger' has disappeared quickly enough after reset and so the alternate (re-setting) 555 gets set. Ha! Theory versus practice in the real world.

My apologies to those that down-loaded the previous versions. Here is another one:

 

You will notice the addition of a delay to the reset pulse and extra capacitors including a 'fat' one on the power lines. So, as long as your 'trigger' has gone back 'high' before the delay time of 100K x 1uF then all is well.

The inputs are very sensitive and are easily upset by the inductive load of a motor so capacitors everywhere!

post-45502-0-04880000-1515523963.jpg

Edited by Meddler
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  • 3 years later...

So did this kinda die? To Use an old wire mouse on a joystick port using a Sprite as a pointer and written in assembly, not to be confused with the Stuart code for a TIpi mouse.

I noticed that the super sketch board uses the XY attributes on its cartridge board as well with a button for escape.

 

Edited by GDMike
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  • 1 year later...

If you use time as a measure of productivity then you will 'Kill Time' and "Waste Time', to me time is a tool, if used wisely it helps me understand what has been and what can be. Learning from out past can only make our future better for all. technology is never "Obsolete', only the paradigm that spawned it has passed by. Are you wiser for understanding a "Subroutine" or for pressing a key, we know the former can enrich and the latter is of little consequence. I still use a primitive technology called a pencil, without it I would not have been an Artist.


As a Artist/Writer I have been blessed with a creative spirit, the retro computer was one of the first creative forays into our daily lives,it did not spy on you or tell you lies, it was an obedient servant that did what the owner required, the more you understood it the more you could get from it. Today we have a monstrosity that spies and lies and you have little control over it, while it is very hard to understand its complete workings, it does offer a lot of entertainment and much more time to 'Waste'.  Regards Arto.      

the_lost_door_to_valhalla_by_Arto.jpg

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8 hours ago, Artoj said:

If you use time as a measure of productivity then you will 'Kill Time' and "Waste Time', to me time is a tool, if used wisely it helps me understand what has been and what can be. Learning from out past can only make our future better for all. technology is never "Obsolete', only the paradigm that spawned it has passed by. Are you wiser for understanding a "Subroutine" or for pressing a key, we know the former can enrich and the latter is of little consequence. I still use a primitive technology called a pencil, without it I would not have been an Artist.


As a Artist/Writer I have been blessed with a creative spirit, the retro computer was one of the first creative forays into our daily lives,it did not spy on you or tell you lies, it was an obedient servant that did what the owner required, the more you understood it the more you could get from it. Today we have a monstrosity that spies and lies and you have little control over it, while it is very hard to understand its complete workings, it does offer a lot of entertainment and much more time to 'Waste'.  Regards Arto.      

the_lost_door_to_valhalla_by_Arto.jpg

Very nice! Reminiscent of Giraud (aka Moebius). I wonder what you could come up with using TI Artist... While we have a good number of programmers and hardware hackers, the artists among us are generally well hidden...

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RXB CALL IO also can talk directly to the JOYSTICK port from XB using the CRU bus same way as it does to the Keyboard or RS232 or Disk controller.

 

All work from Console only as the IO routine is built into ROM 0 and GROM 0 of the Console.

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