Let's make Kyan Pascal great again! :-) Atari first!

[luckybuck]

Hi together,


Kyan Pascal is the best Pascal for Atari ever.

We have achieved much progress in restoring the complete developer environment, please see the actual list below.

We are still searching for the Toolkit I and II manuals.

So, if there is anyone out there in the galaxy, please help us.

It is the same with the six million dollar man:

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have the capability to rebuild him (here Kyan Pascal), to make Pascal for Atari stronger, faster and better…

So, Atari first of the 8 bits…



Thank you all so much in advance.

P. S. If there is someone in the possession of these manuals, you can send them to me, I OCR them and send you back the manuals. All postage goes to my bill.


Already in the can:

KIX for the Apple II-Owner's Manual.pdf
Kyan Pascal PLUS for the Apple II-Users Manual.pdf
Toolkit I.pdf
Toolkit II.pdf
Toolkit III.pdf and software
Toolkit IV.pdf
Toolkit V.pdf
Update Kyan.pdf
Disk Magic.atr
Disk Wizard II.atr
DOS 2.5 MD.atr
Eddy.atr
Kyan Pascal (Norwegen).atr
Kyan Pascal Kopie.atr
Kyan Pascal-original defekt.atr
Kyan Pascal.atr
Kyan Pascal(defektes_atr)_fix.atr
Kyan_Pascal_DOS_2.5_MD_(restored).atr
Sherlock V.2.atr
Toolkit III.atr
Bobs Sector Editor.xex
Boot Utility Pack 1.3.xex
SHERLOCK V.2.xex
DOS 2.0 Modification for special purposes.rtf
Kyan Pascal v2.0.rtf
Bildschirmfoto 2016-06-18 um 22.41.26.jpg
Bildschirmfoto 2016-06-18 um 22.44.14.jpg
Bildschirmfoto 2016-06-19 um 21.09.19.jpg
Defektes ATR.jpg
DIR.jpg
editor_1.jpg
editor_2.jpg
File_A2_OUT_2.jpg
File_A2_OUT.jpg
Sektor 3B6.jpg
Sektor 3C9.jpg
Sektor 3CA DUMP.jpg
Sektor 373.jpg
Apple
kyanpas.HDV
Apple II stuff
Barcardi
Kyan_Pascal_Manual_page_01.jpg
Kyan_Pascal_Manual_page_02.jpg
Kyan_Pascal_Manual_page_03.jpg
Kyan_Pascal_Manual_page_04.jpg
Kyan_Pascal_Manual_page_05.jpg
Kyan_Pascal_Manual_page_06.jpg
Kyan_Pascal_Manual_page_07.jpg
Kyan_Pascal_Manual_page_08.jpg
Kyan_Pascal_Manual_page_09.jpg
Holmes Archiv
Kyan Pascal 1.1.atr
Kyan Pascal A.atr
Kyan Pascal B.atr
Kyan Pascal - Advanced Graphics Toolkit
kyan_toolkit_iii_d7_2.jpg
kyan_toolkit_iii_d7.jpg
Kyan_Pascal_2.02_(1986)
Kyan_Pascal_2.02_(1986)_side_1.atr
Kyan_Pascal_2.02_(1986)_side_2.atr
Kyan Pascal v2.0.rtf
Kyan Pascal Disk 2.02.jpg
Kyan_Pascal_2.02.jpg
Re- Kyan Pascal-comp.sys.app.textClipping
example.tif
PASCAL-V2-Cover-Clear.tif
Kyan_Pascal_2.02_(1986).zip
KYANDSK
Neuer Ordner 14
Kyan Pascal(defektes_atr)_fix.atr
Toolkit 1-System Utilities
Toolkit 2-Mouse Text
Toolkit 3-Advanced Graphics
Toolkit 4-Turtle Graphics
Toolkit 5-Mouse Graphics
Toolkit 6-Code Optimizer
Toolkit 7-Font Utilities
KIX.txt
ReadMeKix.txt
2. Kyan Pascal--- -Product.textClipping
KYAN PASCAL ADVANC

[pirx]

Kyan Pascal is the best Pascal for Atari ever.

 

*was : )))

 

All hail to the new king, Mad Pasqalino!!!

Edited February 14, 2017 by pirx

[TXG/MNX]

Indeed Mads pascal is much more optimized but for native 8-bit you're correct.

 

@Luckybuck which such annoucment I missed a photo of you with blond hair :-)

[luckybuck]

:-)

 

Hope, you have seen all the emoticon:

and know the true meaning of.

 

Yes, I meant the native 8-bit version.

[luckybuck]

Hi together,

 

The community with the help of all has made great progress regarding Kyan Pascal. An article is in the new ABBUC magazine #129 about the actual state.

Tom Eckmann, CEO of Kyan Pascal, was so nice to us, by giving Kyan Pascal into PD. Therefore, we can offer:

https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Pascal

Please take into account, that the manual was retyped(!) by GoodByteXL and is therefore in an incredible condition. :-))) Thank you so much GoodByteXL.

To complete Kyan Pascal, we need your help again. The missing list is as follows:

- Kyan Pascal version 1.0, 1.2 and 1.3

- Programming Utility Toolkit for Kyan Pascal version 1.x

- Advanced Graphics Toolkit for Kyan Pascal version 1.x

- Kyan Pascal version 2.0 and 2.03

- System Utilities Toolkit for Kyan Pascal version 2.x

- Code Optimizer Toolkit for Kyan Pascal version 2.x

 

Any help of any kind, even just hints or infos to complete the above site is very welcome at any time.

We really would appreciate your help. :-)

[ChrisChiesa]

Almost forty years after first encountering Kyan Pascal, just this past week I've had my first chance to really sit down and work with it a bit.  I'm alarmed to discover some problems, at least in the emulator-and-disk-images way of doing things today.  I'll just gloss over everything for now, and go into further detail if anyone is interested in discussing it further.

1) Corrupted files on Disk 1 of the Kyan Pascal Utilities.  One file has an Atari DOS "file number error" a little ways in; the other has no such "structural" errors but its content suddenly changes from Pascal source code to binary gibberish.  The alarming thing is that I see the exact same damage in this disk when downloaded by multiple different names from multiple different sources.  I'd like to find somebody who can check the physical floppies, and maybe create an intact image and spread it around to replace the "bad" ones.

 

2) A simple program of mine, that opens a file and BLOADs it to the Graphics 8 screen, works fine but causes all subsequent attempts to launch any program -- my own or Kyan-supplied "commands" -- to fail.  Typing a command/program name at the % prompt and pressing RETURN causes the system to simply sit there doing nothing.  The BREAK key interrupts this state and brings me back to the % prompt, but does not fix the underlying problem.  I've used the emulator's monitor/debugger to single-step through the machine code, and have traced the problem to a CIOV "file open" call that never returns, but the reason it never returns remains a mystery.

3) Pressing BREAK in the middle of an LS operation disables the break key from then on, even after LS returns to the % prompt, other programs are run, etc.  I was able to get around this by writing a tiny program whose only action is to enable the BREAK key.

 

4) Pressing BREAK in the middle of a long-running CAT operation has no effect at all, even when the BREAK key isn't previously disabled.  This is highly annoying.
 

5) The definition of the no-argument function get_free_iocb, as found in file IOCB.I on Disk 1 of the Kyan Pascal Utilities "as downloaded", contained a syntax error according to the compiler.  Specifically, the function definition included a pair of empty parentheses, whereas the compiler expects a no-argument function definition to omit the parentheses.  I had to edit IOCB.I to make that change, to get my program to compile.  I wonder whether the empty-parentheses syntax was supported in Kyan Pascal v1, but isn't in v2.  Or perhaps it was correct as supplied directly from Kyan, but someone edited the file to add the parentheses, at some point in time.

 

Looking forward to discussing this and maybe improving the world's Kyan Pascal situation just a bit!

Edited October 15, 2020 by ChrisChiesa

[+DjayBee]

11 hours ago, ChrisChiesa said:

1) Corrupted files on Disk 1 of the Kyan Pascal Utilities.  One file has an Atari DOS "file number error" a little ways in; the other has no such "structural" errors but its content suddenly changes from Pascal source code to binary gibberish.  The alarming thing is that I see the exact same damage in this disk when downloaded by multiple different names from multiple different sources.  I'd like to find somebody who can check the physical floppies, and maybe create an intact image and spread it around to replace the "bad" ones.

Pinging @luckybuck because he might know somebody to ask for a fix.

[Atari_Ace]

I looked briefly at the disk images for file/disk integrity. 

• There are three (identical) utility disks and all are missing sector 451, which in each case is in file REPEAT.I.  This can be repaired, as there is a good copy in Kyan_Pascal_System_Utilities_V1.00_Side1.atr.  The fixed image is attached.
• Kyan_Pascal_DOS_2.5_MD_(restored).atr also looks troublesome, as file A2.OUT has a link issue.  I haven't looked into that further.
• Kyan_Pascal_1.1_A.atr (and an identical copy) is an SD size disk, but sector 360 declares it has 1010 sectors (i.e. an ED disk).  This is a common error I see a lot and doesn't interfere with reading the disks.

 

KYANUTILS1.ATR

 

 

[luckybuck]

Thank you very much Atari_Ace, your help is very much appreciated, since I am not deep in Pascal. I just want to restore all Kyan Pascal software available. With the worldwide help, especially here on AtariAge, we did make great progress, but we are not finished so far. The time is against us, because the magnetic layers won't last forever.

Your first point is fixed:

https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Pascal#section-Pascal-ATRImages

please take a look.

Point 2: I really have to admit, I don't know further here, maybe someone who is deep in, knows best?

Point 3: the CEO of Kyan Pascal, Tom, told us, that all diskettes were not protected in the golden age. Maybe these were formatted different?

Anyway, we can and will take the work from the preservation project for granted. At least these images are reliable.

 

Tom Eckmann, CEO of Kyan Pascal, was so nice to us, by giving Kyan Pascal into PD. To complete Kyan Pascal, we need your help again. The missing list is as follows:

- Kyan Pascal version 1.2 and 1.3
- Programming Utility Toolkit for Kyan Pascal version 1.x
- Advanced Graphics Toolkit for Kyan Pascal version 1.x
- Kyan Pascal version 2.00 and 2.03
- Code Optimizer Toolkit for Kyan Pascal version 2.x ; includes the source code for the Runtime Library

Please take into account: the System Utilities Toolkit for Kyan Pascal version 2.x is labeled as Version 1.00, while the content is 2.x! Therefore, if you have any original diskette from Kyan Pascal, please let us know. Thank you so much in advance. ?

[ChrisChiesa]

Thank you very much to everyone who has responded!  I'm impressed.  I confess I was a little worried I might be "shouting into the wind" at this late date, and believe me, I'm vastly relieved to find I was wrong.

Meanwhile I've continued to make progress in investigating my Kyan Pascal issues, and would be interested in further feedback.

1) While unpacking and shelving books since my last post, I found what seems to be an original Kyan Pascal user's manuall, in what looks like an original binder.  So maybe I've forgotten buying the commercial package (though not the Utilities or other auxiliary packages that I now see as images online).  I still have all my physical floppies so, if I did buy it, it should be here somewhere and, if so, if it's still readable it might serve as a "gold standard" for exactly what came on the disk "from the factory."  Watch for my name on some new posts, soon, about addressing the issues of getting the hardware going, and imaging a pile of about 1200 floppies.

2) I just found the physical floppy corresponding whose ATR started all this, and it is labeled, in my own handwriting, "Kyan Pascal Backup/Work copy".  As such, it contains a slightly different set of files than the Kyan Pascal Disk 1 images I've downloaded from the Net, so is not a clean copy of the original.  I'm still not quite 100% sure what version I have, or quite how to tell -- and I certainly didn't know there were multiple versions within "v1" and "v2"!  Fascinating.

3) I can now give the exact names of the KP Utilities images I downloaded that have the identical errors in file content/structure.  One of the ATRs is named Kyan_Pascal-ToolKit_I_(System_Utilities)_A.atr, and the other Kyan Pascal Utils (s1).atr .  Alas, I still haven't had time to backtrack them to "where I got them."  The file REPEAT.I is indeed the one that returns "Trashed Disk" when cat'ted (and thank you, thank you, THANK YOU, Atari_Ace, for fixing that!  I am both impressed and grateful!).   However, these two images also contain a directory entry for a 250-sector file named M.P, which when cat'ted  starts out as Pascal source code for "PROGRAM MOUNTAIN(INPUT, OUTPUT)...", whatever that is, then suddenly switches to gibberish.  Atari_Ace, do you see this file in the image(s) you looked at?

4) For what it's worth, I've written a primitive little raytracer in KP that generates the good ol', traditional, "infinite checkerboard floor," and am in the midst of modifying it so that the floor has a ripple in it.  I can post that somewhere if anybody is interested in seeing it.

5) I've also found a serious problem with yet another downloaded ATR, but it's not related to KP so I'll post about that, too, separately-and-later.

Fun, fun.

Thanks again.

[Atari_Ace]

On 12/14/2020 at 5:22 PM, ChrisChiesa said:

3) I can now give the exact names of the KP Utilities images I downloaded that have the identical errors in file content/structure.  One of the ATRs is named Kyan_Pascal-ToolKit_I_(System_Utilities)_A.atr, and the other Kyan Pascal Utils (s1).atr .  Alas, I still haven't had time to backtrack them to "where I got them."  The file REPEAT.I is indeed the one that returns "Trashed Disk" when cat'ted (and thank you, thank you, THANK YOU, Atari_Ace, for fixing that!  I am both impressed and grateful!).   However, these two images also contain a directory entry for a 250-sector file named M.P, which when cat'ted  starts out as Pascal source code for "PROGRAM MOUNTAIN(INPUT, OUTPUT)...", whatever that is, then suddenly switches to gibberish.  Atari_Ace, do you see this file in the image(s) you looked at?

 

I see the file and you're correct, it's definitely not a valid file by itself.  There's no damage to the file metadata though (the file links are all intact and the sector count in the directory matches), so I suspect this is intentional.

 

Sectors 450-486 are the start of the MOUNTAIN program, which then abruptly stops.  Then sectors 487-701 is data from a completely different source, which after a little investigation I matched to the 2.02 pascal compiler binary (name PC, 26949 bytes, CRC32: a9dd6bca), minus the first sector.

 

So somehow we've got part of a Pascal program and most of the compiler linked together.  It almost looks like someone noticed this extra data on the disk and just added a directory entry and stitched the data together so they could look at it.

[luckybuck]

Thank you Atari_Ace, your help is highly appreciated. ?

[ChrisChiesa]

14 hours ago, luckybuck said:

Thank you Atari_Ace, your help is highly appreciated. ?

I second, third, and fourth that sentiment!   A_A, your detective work on file M.P is very impressive!   Matching that stuff to the compiler binary... amazing.  And your interpretation of that file as someone's stitching together extra data, and creating a directory entry, "so they could get a look at it," would never have occurred to me -- even though I have occasionally performed similar shenanigans myself!  

All in all, I'm glad we have you aboard.  :-)
 

[+Larry]

@luckybuck-

Interesting... Could you please let us know when the (potential) changes are posted at the Wiki archive? I want to check my original disks against them.

Thanks.

 

[luckybuck]

Thank you so much Chris, but I am a nobody, it is the users who all work together, even Larry above has big, big part in this. These are the users we have to thank for.

 

It is a project going on for years and still will be, we are very close to finish in colecting the missing parts of Kyan, but even after this, we plan to certify Kyan with a legal(!) label regarding ISO... We face an A label, of course.

 

We are in contact with the man, who did this for the whole world and for all Pascal compilers. After this, Kyan is and will stay great again. ?

 

@Larry: as promised, you will receive a very special e-mail from me very soon. Please stay tuned.

Edited December 21, 2020 by luckybuck
forgot something

[zbyti]

Leave this Pascal RIP

[+MrFish]

52 minutes ago, zbyti said:

Leave this Pascal RIP

 

Nothing rests in peace in retro computing. You're telling that to grave diggers/archaeologists.

 

[Atari_Ace]

When I was looking at the disks earlier, I noted the "restored" disk (Kyan_Pascal_DOS_2.5_MD_(restored).atr) had a compiler (PC) the same size but with a different checksum than the compilers on the other disks, so I was curious what the difference might be.  I finally took the time today to take a look, and discovered it's probably just bit rot. There's a single bit flip of the lowest bit of a particular byte.

--- pc.txt      2021-03-13 13:35:58.129722000 -0800
+++ pc_restored.txt     2021-03-13 13:35:30.724440900 -0800
@@ -1551,3 +1551,3 @@
   60d0  65 20 31 20 73 74 61 63-6b 20 6f 76 65 72 66 6c   e 1 stack overfl
-  60e0  6f 77 0e 73 74 61 63 6b-20 6f 76 65 72 66 6c 6f   ow.stack overflo
+  60e0  6f 77 0e 73 74 61 63 6b-20 6f 76 65 72 66 6c 6e   ow.stack overfln
   60f0  77 0d 68 65 61 70 20 6f-76 65 72 66 6c 6f 77 21   w.heap overflow!

Examining the rest of the files against the copies on other disks I found 1-bit flips in two other utilities: 

 

RM:

--- rm.txt      2021-03-13 13:53:48.037502200 -0800
+++ rm_restored.txt     2021-03-13 13:53:16.211996200 -0800
@@ -59,3 +59,3 @@
    390  03 20 56 e4 30 42 a5 b4-f0 0e a5 b0 8d e0 02 a5   . V.0B..........
-   3a0  b1 8d e1 02 a9 00 85 b4-a5 b0 9d 44 03 a5 b1 9d   ...........D....
+   3a0  b1 8d e1 02 a9 00 85 b4-a5 b0 9d 44 02 a5 b1 9d   ...........D....
    3b0  45 03 38 a5 b2 e5 b0 9d-48 03 a5 b3 e5 b1 9d 49   E.8.....H......I

PRINT:

--- print.txt   2021-03-13 13:58:15.746006400 -0800
+++ print_restored.txt  2021-03-13 13:59:05.334763700 -0800
@@ -36,3 +36,3 @@
    220  20 31 8d 20 3b 8c a9 b9-a0 24 20 4c 8d a9 fb a0    1. ;....$ L....
-   230  8b 20 11 8c a1 00 95 00-a9 00 95 01 a9 59 a0 00   . ...........Y..
+   230  8b 20 11 8c a1 01 95 00-a9 00 95 01 a9 59 a0 00   . ...........Y..
    240  20 11 8c 20 6e 8c a9 fc-a0 8b 20 11 8c 20 4f 8d    .. n..... .. O.

All of these bit flips are on byte $41 of the relevant sectors (299, 598, 637), reinforcing the idea this is just bit rot.

 

So I've patched the three bits back to what they "should" be:

 

Kyan_Pascal_DOS_2.5_MD_restored1.atr

 

There may be additional bit flips in some of the later files on the disk (largely .PAS and .O files), as I didn't find files to compare them against.

 

[luckybuck]

Thank you very much Atari_Ace, this is very much appreciated. ?

 

It is still a long way, to restore Kyan Pascal completely.... With your work, we are one step further. Thank you! ?