Microsoft Remote Desktop - no support for Atari emulation

[Perene]

http://microsoftremotedesktop.wiki-site.com/index.php/Microsoft_Remote_Desktop

 

Guys,

when I try to stream whatever is happening from my PC to the iPad I can't do it with a few systems, such as Atari emulators... is there a way to fix this?

 

I mean, some emulator that works like ePSXe, pcsx2, dolphin, snes9x?

 

[+Gemintronic]

Can't offer a direct answer to ipad + ms remote.

 

Have you tried using, say, VNC? What about running the emulators directly on your ipad?

[Perene]

Running emulators directly from the iPAD is not an option because most of the alternatives that are out there don't offer all games even if they are paid, and you can store all data in your Hard Drive instead of the iPAD.

I know Atari games don't waste any significant space, but the thing is I have everything already configured in my PC (including the gamepad), so the task of sending the stream from the PC to the iPAD is a piece of cake compared to all the hassle of playing these games directly on my iPAD.

Maybe this is the best way to do it (run them in the iPAD instead), however you really need to see how MS Remote Desktop works in this regard... and how useful this app is. I suggest using a tablet stand (like TStand) and a bluetooth controller (like DS4), to try working something out.

This is a screenshot taken from the iPAD from a Dreamcast game running in the emulator NullDC:

As you can see it fills the entire screen, except for two buttons that can't be removed, only moved to the sides.

This is how a game from an emulator "SUPPORTED" works in it. I noticed no lags, so it's fullscreen and with sound.

Also valid for Super NES (SNes9x only - ZSNES doesn't work), PS1, PS2, GameCube/Wii and as I said Dreamcast.

When an emulator is "partially supported" it means that you won't be able at all to use fullscreen mode, so it will look exactly like that:

As you can see from the image below I zoomed the window in the iPAD:

The problem with that workaround is that you have to do it every single time you need to run these emulators. You don't just hit the button to open a game and it's all working already in fullscreeen, you need to calmly adjust the screen.

This is valid for the Dreamcast emulator DEMUL (the only one that can run Resident Evil 2 as far as I know), Nintendo 64 (Project 64), NES and the Kega Fusion emulator, that can run all these systems:

Master System / Genesis (Mega Drive) / Game Gear / Sega CD / 32X

As for the unsupported systems, I believe all PC games (if not all, most of them), MAME, SSF (Saturn), and the emulators for ATARI 2600 that I tried won't work at all, and I think GameBoy too.

When you do attempt to stream anything the app will simply crash or freeze, and say that is unable to set display mode, Direct3D error or any other error you can imagine.

At this point you may have realized that this can't be a limitation from the Microsoft Remote Desktop app or a problem with my OS (Win 10-Pro-64 bit), or even with my video card.

It's in the software, in the emulator itself. It's simply not designed to adjust to the iPAD environment in the same way these few emulators are.

I don't know how all of them work, so I have no idea what the problem is.

P.S.

Two more screenshots, from the Dolphin emulator:

[phaeron]

 

At this point you may have realized that this can't be a limitation from the Microsoft Remote Desktop app or a problem with my OS (Win 10-Pro-64 bit), or even with my video card

 

Actually, for some emulators, the problem is Windows. Remote Desktop doesn't support OpenGL. Any emulator that relies on that will therefore fail completely under Remote Desktop, regardless of whether you use your iPad or any other RDP client.

[Perene]

 

Actually, for some emulators, the problem is Windows. Remote Desktop doesn't support OpenGL. Any emulator that relies on that will therefore fail completely under Remote Desktop, regardless of whether you use your iPad or any other RDP client.

Take a look at what I said in the wiki about the Stella emulator. Here's my last update:

 

More updates:

As you can see, the DEVIL MAY CRY 4 demo (PC) can only run in window mode, and it has audio.

But Assassins Creed (2007) won't work at all. In fullscreen it will crash, and in window mode it has no sound.

I believe most PC games will have the same issues.

And this is how Fusion (Genesis, Master System, Game Gear, Sega CD, 32X) looks like in the app:

Now with zoom applied:

And contrary to what I said, the Atari 2600 emulator Stella is fully supported.

Only needs a few adjustments. The same for FCEUX, the NES emulator.

This is what happens when we try to run M.A.M.E.:

PlayStation (ePSXe) running:

PCSX2 (PlayStation 2):

For use with these systems:

- Game Boy

- Game Boy Color

- Game Boy Advance

- Wonderswan

- Wonderswan Color

We need the higan (v102) emulator.

A few screenshots:

higan can also run Game Gear, Master System, Genesis/Mega Drive and PC Engine, the problem is that the games I tested are muted (in the PC) and none of the Genesis games I have here are being recognized. Once these problems are fixed I'll update that wiki page.

There's also the fact that this emulator doesn't have a few options that Fusion has, such as the use of cheat codes.

http://microsoftremotedesktop.wiki-site.com/index.php/Microsoft_Remote_Desktop

P.S. I still don't know why there are so many games that won't work at all and a few who will only partially.

And here's my Stella current config:

Edited February 23, 2017 by Perene

[Flojomojo]

I would give Splashtop a try, it works great for games and is likely better supported. Alternatively try Steam streaming to other computers. I think either of these will have native h264 support, something that MSRDP is working on but might not be as far along --especially on iPad.

[Kismet]

http://microsoftremotedesktop.wiki-site.com/index.php/Microsoft_Remote_Desktop

 

Guys,

when I try to stream whatever is happening from my PC to the iPad I can't do it with a few systems, such as Atari emulators... is there a way to fix this?

 

I mean, some emulator that works like ePSXe, pcsx2, dolphin, snes9x?

 

 

Point of reference, the Microsoft Remote Desktop doesn't use your GPU, it uses a virtual video card, hence games that need to use the GPU are still trying to use the GPU, and don't typically recognize they are running under Terminal services.

 

If you want to stream things to your iPad, you have to actually capture the game/application (eg with OBS) and stream it as a video feed. If you use RDP, you're not likely getting more than one frame per second (unless there is a hardware encoder,) because even if the emulator can run under Terminal services, it can't make use of the real GPU, it uses the RemoteFX virtual GPU. Without getting into a complex explanation, the emulators that likely don't work are using "overlay" mode or are using OpenGL (Windows 10/Server 2016 only.)

 

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/enterprisemobility/2016/01/11/remote-desktop-protocol-rdp-10-avch-264-improvements-in-windows-10-and-windows-server-2016-technical-preview/

 

So check to see if the emulators are configured for DirectX/Direct3D. Also keep in mind that it might specifically have to use DirectX 9 or later.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Kismet

[+wongojack]

Surface?

[Perene]

 

Point of reference, the Microsoft Remote Desktop doesn't use your GPU, it uses a virtual video card, hence games that need to use the GPU are still trying to use the GPU, and don't typically recognize they are running under Terminal services.

 

If you want to stream things to your iPad, you have to actually capture the game/application (eg with OBS) and stream it as a video feed. If you use RDP, you're not likely getting more than one frame per second (unless there is a hardware encoder,) because even if the emulator can run under Terminal services, it can't make use of the real GPU, it uses the RemoteFX virtual GPU. Without getting into a complex explanation, the emulators that likely don't work are using "overlay" mode or are using OpenGL (Windows 10/Server 2016 only.)

 

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/enterprisemobility/2016/01/11/remote-desktop-protocol-rdp-10-avch-264-improvements-in-windows-10-and-windows-server-2016-technical-preview/

 

So check to see if the emulators are configured for DirectX/Direct3D. Also keep in mind that it might specifically have to use DirectX 9 or later.

 

 

I managed to make M.A.M.E. work by following these tips:

 

********

You need to create a shortcut from MAME's executable, and with the right-click edit its properties. Then add a few command lines to it, and save the modifications. For example, say the shortcut locates MAME at: E:\MAME\mame64.exe - you will need to edit this part and turn into this, otherwise the emulator won't run with the app: E:\MAME\mame64.exe -video gdi -keyboardprovider dinput -keyboardprovider win32 -mouseprovider dinput

******

 

And Nintendo DS is working, too, in fullscreen + audio. Look at this:

 

 

Since this emulator is also working with the display method OPENGL, what does that tell you?

 

This is from Dolphin:

 

[Kismet]

 

Since this emulator is also working with the display method OPENGL, what does that tell you?

 

 

That you're running Windows 10? OpenGL 4.4 is supposed by Windows 10 RemoteFX.

 

Keep in mind that you may still need to configure RemoteFX.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Kismet

[Perene]

OBS cannot stream anything without a huge delay that would kill the actual experience of playing the game. At least for Youtube. Is there a way to do this without any delay at all? If there is then the problem is also solved.

 

 

There's an app that I found today that is sucessfully streaming PC games (emulators don't work properly with it):

https://itunes.apple.com/br/app/kinoconsole-stream-pc-games/id965075144?mt=8

 

However, there are a few problems:

 

- The free version has limitations such as medium image quality.

- It keeps rotating my iPAD screen everytime I try to use it, even if I use a setting that disable this behaviour in iOS. So I am forced to use it in a way I really don't want.

- There's a dead pixel in the screen that won't ever leave. It doesn't bother that much, but you know it's always there. Another thing to fix in this app.

 

Other than that I believe it's working with most PC games.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Perene

[Perene]

I updated the Wiki for the Atari 2600, 5200 and 7800 entries. Atari 2600 and 7800 are supported (fullscreen mode + audio available) by the emulator BizHawk, that also does the same for Genesis-Mega Drive and TurboGrafx-16 (PC Engine).

 

Altirra (Atari 5200) is also working the way it should. However I could not configure my PS2 controller yet.

 

I saw that BizHawk had N64 support, the problem is that I wouldn't use it since it does not support Resident Evil 2. And I don't see the many options Project 64 has, such as loading a controller config from another game, or cheats already in the app.

 

P.S. BizHawk works better than Stella when it comes to displaying these games in fullscreen mode in the iPAD.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Perene

[Trebor]

Since MAME is working for you, utilizing its Atari 7800 console emulation is an option; it is the most hardware accurate of the 7800 emulators available. Although not quite as good as Stella, its Atari 2600 emulation is not too shabby either. ColecoVision emulation lacks support of the MegaCart and SGM, falling short of blueMSX greatness, but is otherwise fantastic. Vectrex emulation works excellent too.

 

Nonetheless, as mentioned, Microsoft Remote Desktop is not intended for streaming games.

 

Perhaps one of the better pieces of advice which doesn't hurt to emphasize... "Don't invest effort in trying to do this over remote displays. Just put together a decently powerful machine, give it a monitor and controls, and enjoy gaming on it."

[Jetboot Jack]

I'd just like to re-iterate what Flojomojo said - I use Splashtop to stream to laptops, i-devices etc etc.

 

It is massively superior to using M$ remote desktop - no configuration, games are full playable with a good network and I have found NO software that won't work so far - all emulators etc.

 

Moonlight is also around, which is a great alternative to official steam streaming if you have the right hardware...

 

I would give Splashtop a try, it works great for games and is likely better supported. Alternatively try Steam streaming to other computers. I think either of these will have native h264 support, something that MSRDP is working on but might not be as far along --especially on iPad.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Jetboot Jack

[Keatah]

The lag has gotta be terrible with this setup. How high can you score on VCS Kaboom?

[Perene]

Splashtop, as far as I can tell, is not free, you have to pay for it.

 

I would love to test the performance of all these emulators and even PC games using Splashtop, however I can't pay for something I have no idea how it would look like in advance, since I checked similar M$ Remote Desktop apps (all free, however) and was appalled by their inability to do the same basic stuff.

 

That made me believe that only Microsoft could create an app that is at least decent. And it's not just if it works, it's about other minor details that can ruin or improve the experience of streaming.

 

You may also think that Splashtop is a substitute for M$ Remote Desktop without having compared the two or being aware of the flaws of the former when it comes to streaming these games perfectly. Not just the lag, but a few options such as using the iPAD's keyboard to issue commands, the mouse (also in the iPAD), resolution configured for the app, etc.

 

If you do own this app please try to convey a more detailed explanation how the whole thing works for the emulators and PC games if we try to stream... from the PC to the Apple device.

 

I am not against buying anything, I have purchased apps from Apple Store before. It's just that I only did that when there were no free alternatives worth mentioning.

 

And then there's this app:
https://itunes.apple.com/br/app/kinoconsole-stream-pc-games/id965075144?mt=8

 

Available in both free and paid versions, but it doesn't work as it should, and I spotted its flaws in the free version. If I only saw them after paying it wouldn't be possible to get a refund (you all know how Apple is).

 

P.S. Looking at that video, it sounds good:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvYjl9NdeM

 

However that doesn't tell me how many PC games are running properly, if we can use a joystick plugged into the PC (DS4, bluetooth), how emulators work with it...

 

 

The lag has gotta be terrible with this setup. How high can you score on VCS Kaboom?

There is no lag that I know of, for the supported systems I wrote in that Wiki.

 

But I haven't extensively tested this for all systems.

 

If it's just me looking into it, then we can't be sure of anything, can we?

 

Look what I wrote just now for that M.A.M.E. thread:

> Whatever, the Dunning-Kruger effect seems to be in full force here, as you clearly

> are of the opinion that you know more than the people who actually develop MAME. Best

> of luck in accomplishing what you want to accomplish, but you're not going to get

> much help from the actual MAME developers.

You are very much mistaken if you think that is the case here. Please refrain from making these kinds of assumptions when you don't know anything about the intentions of the person who is talking to you.

I merely stated that buying a new TV/monitor to put in my room (or anywhere else in here) is something I would like to avoid as much as possible because it's not practical.

If you only had two alternatives, which are carry a ton of physical books and all the library in form of ebooks, and then you were defending the latter method, for good reasons (such as the one I gave in this thread) you wouldn't be inflexible, would you?

I never said that my solution is the ideal one or that someone that suggested another way (or the only way, if you wish to put in those terms) is a fool.

I tried playing MK II for MAME just now and this time I didn't use these options:

G:\Jogos\Arcade\mame64.exe -video gdi -keyboardprovider dinput -keyboardprovider win32 -mouseprovider dinput

Instead I selected "opengl" for video. I could definitely notice a lag when Shang Tsung morphed into another character right before the round finished... It's very subtle but it's definitely there the latency issue.

So unless these options are somehow wrong, or I need more potent hardware, or MAME needs to be improved (compared to other emulators)... the use of Microsoft Remote Desktop has problems as you all mentioned before.

I tend to believe that it isn't 100% fault of this work-around, this idea of using the app.

There must be something that if improved or modified would allow these latency issues to be reduced even more. When you try to play this M.A.M.E. game you notice right away it isn't running at 100% speed.

And before you say this is the case for ALL other emulators and games, I can assure you it isn't, and if you don't take my word for it, just try them. The others I tried so far are running without any signs of latency issues at all.

M.A.M.E. is more cumbersome, that I am sure.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Perene

[Keatah]

A Remote Desktop style of emulation? Gotta have started least 60 ms lag or more.

[+wongojack]

/\ agree, this is a terrible idea

[Keatah]

I've been playing with, troubleshooting, and tweaking emulators since before DAS-Arcade. That means I'm pretty good at what I do. I will tell you directly that emulators mixed with streaming tools and remote desktops are not ideal combinations. Some combinations may work, others may not.

 

While the idea of playing all your emulated games through the ipad, because "I want to use only the ipad" is valid. The fact of the matter is the ipad is not the correct device. There are many artificial limitations put in place by Apple. And there are many details that have to be just right. Streaming tool developers are NOT going to consider emulators. Emulator authors aren't going to be worrying about making their stuff work with other streaming tools. There may be some one-off experiments and pre-alpha tests hapening here and there, but nothing worth the time and trouble.

 

With emulators you want (even need) to have everything running on the same piece of hardware. How about trying a Surface? Or something coded specifically for the ipad? You've got all the hardware necessary to run emulators at decent speeds and all of its parts are within inches of each other. the display is native and there is no network to bog things down.

 

MooglyGuy, casm, and lharms pretty much sum it up nicely. Instead of regurgitating their comments I'll make reference to the thread.

http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=363808&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1

 

 

[Jetboot Jack]

I can't really supply definitive information - I use Splashtop for all my general remote desktop access across my devices. I am satisfied with it's performance - it is much better than M$ remote desktop in my experience, less lag, better screen refresh, better image quality. But I have never stress tested it as a games solution, at best I have dabbled with it, and was impressed with the results.

 

But if games/emulation is the primary use, I would recommend investigating software designed to achieve this such as steam in home streaming or nvidia gamestream solutions.

 

I have used Steam Streaming from my PC to my Mac Laptop to play a fair few titles, both steam specific and those non steam games installed and added to the steam menu - but I cannot say I have done more than try a few emulators like Stella.

 

It's good, really good, but I cannot say 100% perfect - it's streaming, it is affected by network bandwidth and interference - even with my rather over spec'd PC (Kaby Lake i7, 32GB and GTX 1080) it's not perfect - nearly perfect wired, less perfect on WiFi...

 

I have not used, but hear Moonlight works well for NVIDIA equipped systems - it can stream specific apps, it works with controllers, you can add any app to it, it can also stream your whole desktop...

 

sTeVE