gamer-stu Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Hi all. I recently came to possess an in-shrink copy of Thunderfox from a US seller. I immediately ripped off the shrink and tried to play it. Unfortunately, I can't get past the title screen. When I push the button to start, it locks up. This happens in my XEGS (U1MB), Atari 800 (stock 48k) and 800XL (U1MB). Is it possible that this is a PAL version? This game was released as NTSC, right? I ask because I really l have never successfully run the game from an XEX or ATR (screen scrolling etc), though in this case I don't even get that far. Any thoughts to resolve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) The cart is the NTSC conversion, the original tape was PAL only - Noel did not do the NTSC/Cart conversion himself I seem to remember, that was handled at Atari's request by a third party.. My cart runs on my PAL (stock 130XE and 800XL) and NTSC (1200XL with U1MB and stock XEGS) systems just fine... sTeVE Edited February 27, 2017 by Jetboot Jack 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) Thunderfox is XL/XE only. With the XEGS & 800XL have you tried with the U1MB RAM set to only 64K or 128K, also what OS are you using? Edited February 27, 2017 by BillC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamer-stu Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) Thunderfox is XL/XE only. With the XEGS & 800XL have you tried with the U1MB RAM set to only 64K or 128K, also what OS are you using? Hi Bill, yes, I have tried with stock RAM using both XEGS OS and XL OS 1.3. If I can figure out how to upload a video showing the behavior, I will do so. Essentially it freezes with whatever sound was playing after the start-up screen. I have a non-modded 130 XE in the attic. I'll give that a shot. trim.C9A66D66-9ECF-4A86-88E6-F915C576FE50.MOV Edited February 27, 2017 by gamer-stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) Have you got XL OS 2, I've found stuff that just works on that (bare in mind I don't use a Ultimate) I'll try Thunderfox emulated on NTSC Thunderfox US bin working here on Altirra under NTSC, could be the Ultimate.. Edit 2: Just ran it under the emulated Ultimate 1m on Altirra with same settings as you and it works fine here Edit 3 Tried the PAL version and it does work also under NTSC just screen judder is unbearable.. Pretty sure this is Ult related and mine is not setup 100% as yours on other settings... Flashjazzcat is a good person to check with.. Edited February 27, 2017 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamer-stu Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 Have you got XL OS 1.2, I've found stuff that just works on that (bare in mind I don't use a Ultimate) I'll try Thunderfox emulated on NTSC Thanks for checking that! I don't think that I have XL OS 1.2, though it should be hard for me to find and update the U1MB ROM. I'm going to try on the un-modded 130 XE next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Sorry meant version 2 of that rom not 1.2, handy to have but I tried the ver 3 as per the ULT rom and it still worked on that here.. Hope it works on the 130.. Paul.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamer-stu Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 Unfortunately I got the same result in the unmodified 130XE. I guess I just have a bum cartridge. Is it correct that the only way to open these cartridges is to peel back the sticker and unscrew it? If so then I think I will pass on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamer-stu Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 Further confirmation that it's a bad ROM: I dumped it using my Maxflash USB programmer and get the same behavior on Altirra. Thunderfox.bin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Not sure of the entry way on that cart but its sounds like the way you said... Never known a 'borked' cart, maybe worth a look inside unless you just want to collect it as it stands.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamer-stu Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) Update. Here was my dilemma: I have a nice cartridge that doesn't work. Do I leave as is and just play from an AtariMax rom? Or do I damage the label in order to take the cart apart? Alas, my curiosity got the better of me. Peeling the label was not going to work. So I opted to use a razor to, as carefully as possible, cut out {gasp!} the piece of the label covering the screw. Now that I can see the pcb, I think I see the problem. On the back, there is a solder bridge between R2 and R4. Confirmed by my multimeter. I assume this is not kosher? Any thoughts before I fire up the soldering iron? Check out the last picture. Edited February 27, 2017 by gamer-stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Both Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Hard to see... but it may be connected anyway. The copper path seems to connect all 4 contacts? Maybe the Rom lost it's content ? Would it be possible to replace it with an EProm ? Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 You could try flowing some solder in those through-holes in case of a possible break... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamer-stu Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 Hard to see... but it may be connected anyway. The copper path seems to connect all 4 contacts? Maybe the Rom lost it's content ? Would it be possible to replace it with an EProm ? Stefan Yes, you're right. It's all common ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamer-stu Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) You could try flowing some solder in those through-holes in case of a possible break... Just tried this, thanks AtariGeezer. Alas no change. I guess if there were something wrong with the PCB, I'd expect that nothing would work. That it wouldn't even make it to the title screen. I suppose there could be something wrong with the bank switching, but I really know nothing about that. When I run the dumped ROM in Alterra, it's halting on 20C1 with an Opcode of 22 (KIL) -- Alterra is identifying this as an illegal instruction. Edited February 27, 2017 by gamer-stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Just did a compare on this and the one on AtariMania, yours has 1538 bytes that are $40 off in value: $A9 reads as $E9 and so on... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamer-stu Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Just did a compare on this and the one on AtariMania, yours has 1538 bytes that are $40 off in value: $A9 reads as $E9 and so on... That is very interesting and strange, thanks Atari Geezer. $40 is 64 decimal and 0100 0000 binary. I wonder what could have caused those bytes to be consistently off by $40 in the rom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+David_P Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Almost sounds like a short somewhere - perhaps when a certain address line is in used, it's shorting the D6 line? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) Sorry to not follow this up earlier and seeing all the theories, sad to see that it's a bum cart, but like I said in post 2 the Thunder Fox cart is NTSC or PAL compatible, the tape version is not - just to avoid confusion as the original post said: "Is it possible that this is a PAL version? This game was released as NTSC, right?" The cart version is the same sold in all territories and works on standard and U1MB enhanced hardware PAL and NTSC - tested as I have a couple of copies and various ROM files via SD2SIO, all work just fine... sTeVE Edited February 28, 2017 by Jetboot Jack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndary Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I confirm that the original cart will work on a u1mb machine pal or ntsc that is configured to a stock atari settings If you want i can fix the cart for free But you need to send it 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamer-stu Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 I confirm that the original cart will work on a u1mb machine pal or ntsc that is configured to a stock atari settings If you want i can fix the cart for free But you need to send it Thanks for the offer! Considering shipping to and from, it would probably be cheaper if I just bought another one loose. I still have an awesome box and doc, so I'm good there. All things considered, this has been a fun exercise and almost worth the price of admission: I learned how to dump a ROM using my max flash programmer, open an XE GS cart, trace and compare in Alterra, found XE super cart memory maps, etc. I will ask this though -- do you think it is as simple as bad ROM chip, or is possible that there is a problem with the board, like David surmised, a short on D6? This is like a puzzle gnawing at my mind -- I find the fact that several thousand bytes being offset by exactly 0100 0000 to be a tantalizing mystery to solve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamer-stu Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Sorry to not follow this up earlier and seeing all the theories, sad to see that it's a bum cart, but like I said in post 2 the Thunder Fox cart is NTSC or PAL compatible, the tape version is not - just to avoid confusion as the original post said: "Is it possible that this is a PAL version? This game was released as NTSC, right?" The cart version is the same sold in all territories and works on standard and U1MB enhanced hardware PAL and NTSC - tested as I have a couple of copies and various ROM files via SD2SIO, all work just fine... sTeVE Thanks sTeVE. Do you know if all XE GS carts are similar, i.e. will work with PAL and NTSC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I have never seen a region specific XEGS cart - all the ones I have, have sold or seen are all identical save for the odd sticker (like XL compatible stars or Thunderfox's complete blurb replacement)... sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) I think its a real long shot for the actual rom as created is wrong, I'd be stunned if there not a board fault...All version I tried on Altirra via PAL or NTSC worked to a point but much further than the dump by Stu..Perhaps a PCB compare to another almost identical board could show pointers. From what I've seen over the years you really need to abuse an Atari cart to kill it, sure components that are static sensitive will go but apart from uncovered UV holes on eproms its pretty damn to kill them. A manufacturing error isn't an impossibility...(unlikely but possible) (I presume these boards were all done via a flow method?) Edited March 1, 2017 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 It's just a duff cartridge.... sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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