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AT Games Intellivision Flashback 2 coming this fall..........


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The problem has nothing to do with me and everything to do with them.

So why waste the energy and throw a tantrum? Go waste that energy on something productive. I have only purchased one thing from AtGames and liked it for what it was. I didn't delude myself into thinking it was going to be amazing. If you have all the systems why be hateful?

 

Also you didn't reply on compatibility issues on these new systems that are so much more awesome than AtGames.

 

Bill is an awesome guy and has been more than honest with this forum about these products. Whether its about what's improvements or not. They at least are open to criticisms and seem to be more open than any other company is. And they also seem to be the only company that might consider even doing an INTV or CV. Maybe you should take your time to develop that CV with Cardillo and call it the CultureClubColeco. Bet that would sell well.

 

And I love the its not me its them high school reaction. If you hate it so much stop acting like you have an anger issue and be an adult consumer and not buy their products. Pretty simple solution.

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“A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.

A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot.” ― Robert A. Heinlein

Edited by ls650
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It would be really cool if the premium editions that are double the price had real woodgrain. Controllers that dont feel like they will break and a console that has a little bit of weight to it. I would also like to see a bigger case. I want to see something that finally doesn't scream sweatshop.

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While I have been a tad underwhelmed with the SD Genesis, I thought the Intellivision FB was a good piece of tech and I really would like to see another one, if that is in the cards. Let's hope and see how things go with the other FB lines. I know that the FB products have issues they need to resolve, but honestly I think they are going in the right direction and I look forward to seeing what their future releases have in store for us.

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I retract my statement on the Genesis. It's not as bad as I thought it would be. Ive been enjoying shining force and the master system games on it. Still dont like the controllers it came with but I have many originals regardless, just not in 6 button. Cart slot has a death grip no surprise but it wont be used anyway. All in all, its alright.

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As far as I'm concerned Atgames can barely put 1 together. Im so sick of them shitting on retro. Everything they do other than the Atari completely f@#$$&ing sucks hard ass. If you have direct contact and or are employed by them has anyone ever stopped to say "Hey, this is shit."??? Or they do they get released knowingly as being complete shit. I gotta know because Atari flashback 2 was physically the best console, dont know if they made it or not but all the ones after it, though passable, are still shit. Atgames needs to change their name to AssGames.

 

As much as I love the Colecovision, and am extremely biased towards it. That flashback should have stayed an idea. And then that idea should have somehow made it's way to people more qualified who wouldn't butcher a legendary machine. I would rather have had nothing than have Atgames ruin Coleco.

 

Missteps is the biggest understatement. Atari flashbacks are passable, which is pathetic. From what I hear the Intellivision was superb in comparison to everything else ever made by you. Which makes no sense because the coleco was beyond a disappointment. And now the newest most expensive console ever made by you is still trash.

Youve been in this game way too long to constantly deliver these shit chinese sweatshop consoles that border a very fine line between working and unplayability. There is no one and I swear to you, no one else who wants you to succeed more than me. I keep hoping you prove me wrong. But you constantly never fail to disappoint.

 

So much so, I would love to see Atgames crushed beyond repair and exhiled to a remote place where people who belive their own bullshit can enjoy them for themselves. It's honestly criminal at this point how you have been allowed to constantly release garbage. There should be a class action lawsuit against you by the people who hire Atgames to have their reputations tarnished. That flashback nearly ruined a comeback which looks set to die out once again.

 

Ps. No wonder Atari FB2 was the best one, you didn't make it. It all makes sense now.

 

And you apparently can't get quality no matter how many dollars you put in that jar rendering your honey irrelevant. Or disappointing iteration after reiteration. No one at Atgames is listening. Being nice was 4 flashbacks ago. This is ridiculous now. I want my f@#$#ing games the way they w ere meant to be or don't touch them at all.

 

What I already know. We will have more expensive consoles out of Atgames that are still complete garbage. Mind you, I'm really hoping you win and make me look ridiculous. That's how bad I want you to finally deliver something that doesn't feel like it came from North Korea and actually works like a real console. The day you provide a seamless experience will probably be in 2046 at this pace if you honestly believe Atgames is gonna do anything by 2020. If 8 iterations can't fix your problems, then another 8 won't do any better. You should be able to do it right now with how many years youve been currently doing it.

 

I would take Hyperkin over Atgames anyday. First Snes, shit, second attempt. Beautiful. Supaboy, shit. Supaboy s? Incredible. Those are people who listen. Their products made leaps and bounds from one to the next. There is no excuse for why Atgames can't do the same and take the same approach to quality. Atleast we have 10 different Ataris to choose from and only one of them is worth having and it's the one Atgames didn't even make but used same box to mimmick its true awesomeness.

 

It boggles the mind people still buy your bullshit products willingly. Even me who will gut them inevitably to make something better.

Atgames is bottom of the barrel crap with massive exposure. Don't know who got sucked off for that to become a reality. Make me proud. Lookin forward to it. Or backwards depending on these "improvements".

 

God knows Atgames cant make one if their lives depended on it.

So I got the Genesis. It is improved over the first one which was utter dog shit. But not by much.

All in all. Its just ok. Slightly shit. Will not feel bad when I gut it and turn it into something better. The actual console itself and how it looks is honestly thebest feature. Its big and bulky. And the first step to making consoles that feel like real consoles and not sweat shop toys.

Still doesn't change the fact that none of them including these new ones and the ones coming in 2018, 2019 still won't compare to Flashback 2, that is a fact. That's the issue I have. It's come along way from what? It was gold in 2004 and the current product doesnt match up in 2017 and definitly won't be in 2018 if things will be "just as exciting". You all might like shit but I tend to accept nothing but the best. I don't care where you're at as a company, if you cant recreate something from 14 years ago based on something thats 40 years old, you shouldn't f#@$ing be here. Period. Everyone in this thread so far is acting like I'm too harsh. But all have agreed they need to step up. And not a single person has stepped up to say I'm wrong. Just to understand their situation. Understand this, this tech is ancient. I don't care who you are big or small if you can't afford to make it today. You probably shouldn't be the one to carry a legendary name like Atari.

 

 

Im not arguing with you over this anymore. The problem has nothing to do with me and everything to do with them. I own the originals, I dont have to buy anything at this point. Atgames is f##$#ing shit and that's that. Nothing else to say on them. You want to defend mediocrity, go right ahead, nothing you say will change how much they suck. Everything I say aswell as 99% of the internet reinforces it.

 

There is too much positivity surrounding these things. Stop settling and allowing them to sell SHIT year after year. I overlooked alot in the beginning too. Now its uncalled for. They arent assembling ps5 its an Atari. No excuses.

 

It would be really cool if the premium editions that are double the price had real woodgrain. Controllers that dont feel like they will break and a console that has a little bit of weight to it. I would also like to see a bigger case. I want to see something that finally doesn't scream sweatshop.

 

I retract my statement on the Genesis. It's not as bad as I thought it would be. Ive been enjoying shining force and the master system games on it. Still dont like the controllers it came with but I have many originals regardless, just not in 6 button. Cart slot has a death grip no surprise but it wont be used anyway. All in all, its alright.

 

You certainly have a lot of feelings and strongly-held beliefs about the AtGames consoles.

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That's because you're ranting like a fool, and cursing like a sailor. No one wants to get down into the mud with you. That doesn't mean you're right.

 

You have no concept of how difficult it is to make a mass-market, mass-produced product at an enticing price. How do I know this? Because you've spilled many words full of childish demands and foulmouthed insults, but you have yet to construct a persuasive argument.

 

Bill is a saint for engaging with you at all. I think you should piss off.

This.

 

I've always had respect for Bill, and this makes me respect him more, having to deal with people like "sn8k"

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It's a highly accurate 2600 replication on a single integrated circuit. Short of some inaccuracies introduced overseas by the manufacturer when with good intentions they tried to fix some things that weren't broken (They tried to hide the HMOVE lines, as I recall), it's supposed to be a perfect hardware replica.

 

AtGames on the other hand uses a software emulator that's far from perfect and which introduces many errors and limits compatibility. Witness all the hacks just to get games working for the portable versions, broken behavior like the radar in Battlezone, or inaccuracies with the presentation that don't affect playability.

 

All that said, I haven't spotted problems yet with my Atari Flashback 8 Gold. They took a big stride forward in 2017 and Bill seems to be hinting that the best is yet to come for 2018. Then again, maybe I'm reading things between the lines with that post that aren't actually there.

Edited by Atariboy
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What exactly is it about Flashback 2 that is held in such high esteem compared with the subsequent Flasbacks?

 

The 2 and 2+ were essentially Atari 2600 systems on a chip, much like the ever popular NES on a chips (NOACs). That means that the 2 and 2+ were the closest these products have gotten yet to mirroring the compatibility levels of a real Atari 2600. Of course, there ARE incompatibilities even with the 2/2+. Flashback 3 - 8, the AtGames era, were custom in-house software emulators. If all goes well, in 2018, a new standard of (non-original hardware) compatibility might finally be set again for one of these things.

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The 2 and 2+ were essentially Atari 2600 systems on a chip, much like the ever popular NES on a chips (NOACs). That means that the 2 and 2+ were the closest these products have gotten yet to mirroring the compatibility levels of a real Atari 2600. Of course, there ARE incompatibilities even with the 2/2+. Flashback 3 - 8, the AtGames era, were custom in-house software emulators. If all goes well, in 2018, a new standard of (non-original hardware) compatibility might finally be set again for one of these things.

 

I am looking forward to what 2018 holds and very much interested in how AtGames will be able to build upon this past year's releases.

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At least you figured out how to avoid triple posting.

 

I agree with your points, but years later, why are you expecting so much more? Your comments aren't insightful, you are just repeating what we already know. AT Games makes toys. They aren't perfect and they have compromises.

 

The thing is - I still buy some of their devices. I think they are improving their products each year, and I commend them for adding a bunch of new controllers for our old systems into the world. I'm not going to rush out and buy everything they make, but I hope they continue to enhance the market of the hobby I enjoy so much.

 

Also, how could you not like Bill? He's a retro gaming soldier who has gained influence into the company to try and improve these things with input from other hobbyists. He always presents a realistic view of the decisions at AT Games and even took the time to publish a stand alone book that goes along with the newest consoles to help people enjoy the games more.

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An SD card slot would certainly be awesome but after buying the first my criteria is:

 

1. Good lineup of titles

2. Proper backwards compatible controller out of the box as was intended with the original, They have had enough time now.

 

unless those two conditions are met I will pass until they release one that meets those requirements, same goes for future Colecovision Flashbacks. Oh and also I need to be working again to have extra monies for such indulgences :grin:

 

I agree. I like most of the included titles, so I'm not too terribly disappointed there, I know there are better games out there. I think for a first go, they covered their bases, but the controllers (& Coleco ones) not being compatible was a bummer. But, didn't someone devise a DIY solution? I'll have to look into it. If it's a matter of switching between the original wiring, and the flashback wiring, maybe a good multiplexer would be a solution? I sadly don't own an original INTV anymore, so I can't test it, but I did find this (maybe a start):

 

http://www.wakingupafterforty.net/rewiring-intellivision-flashback-controllers/

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If this happens, I think my one mandate is for the Data East arcade ports to be here. No Burgertime, Bump 'n' Jump, and Lock 'n' Chase means no sale. It was by far my biggest disappointment with the first one.

 

Also toss in Diner and Deadly Dogs while you're at it and have the Burgertime license. You'll never get the Tron license, but hacking Deadly Dogs out of the INTV port of Dig Dug to make it a standalone release would hopefully be non-infringing enough to get that easter egg version of Tron Deadly Discs out on an Intellivision Flashback 2.

Edited by Atariboy
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I would like to see an INTV or Coleco flashback 2. I'm pretty much fine with the way the existing systems turned out. I didn't have these as a child, just 2600, and there was only one other kid that I knew that had a coleco, but we mostly played 2600 games on it with the adapter, so these were a fun way for me to explore the INTV & Coleco libraries with a look and feel of the original controls. I didn't find much fault in the emulation. These games seem easy enough to reproduce with some acceptable level of fidelity.

 

Bill, glad to see you respond with such decorum. I had to learn similar patience in my career working with disabled folks. & I'm serious, I don't mean that as an insult to anyone. I came from a previous work ethic where speed was prized, then suddenly thrown into a new job where I had to find the inner-patience to slow down, and cater to the pace of my clients. It's not always the easiest thing to perform. I learned much about my own capabilities as a person by being in the service of others less able bodied. It's a good skill set to have in the corporate world, as you learn to adapt & work with other people cooperatively and beneficially.

 

Sn8k, I see your POV, I really do. don't disagree at all. I think some of you others may be a tad hard on Sn8k, but I gotta admire his passion. I don't want to get yelled at, or verbally beat up for it, or become the thought or speech police here, really I don't. You go ahead and be you. Keep AtGames on their toes, it's ultimately beneficial. But I just want to politely ask not to use the word "gay" as some kind of insult. I know I'm kinda late to the conversation, I respect your freedom to believe in whatever, but in return, please respect other's freedoms also without insulting an entire group of people to make a simple talking point. There is a whole dictionary full of other more creative insults. It may surprise you how many LGTB peoples work & have made a name and career for themselves in the video game and computer/electronics industry. There has yet to be made a video game or console macho enough that didn't have at least one LGTB person behind the scenes as part of it's creation or invention. One of my favorite classic games is Gorf programmed by Jamie Fenton, an transgender person, and equal rights activist. I did not know anything about her at the time. All I knew was I was a kid & Gorf was fun. I found out the other details later as an adult trying to research who published the game & owned the copyright to it. Sometimes things can take you by surprise. But like I said, this is just a polite request, not trying to be the United Nations here.

 

That being said, I do like some of your other comments, I agree things could be better with these game consoles, but realistically, these are just plug & plays mainly sold (or at least marked) as holiday novelties for kids, I don't expect them to be pixel perfect. I see these forum posts (not just here) where people want some "brass ring" ultimate-reborn re-release of their favorite classic game system, and as Bill mentioned (numerous times all over AA forum posts) that from a business & production standpoint, that just isn't going to happen. The reason why I want to throw my hat into the ring and talk about it is because of two examples that I remember that might explain why I'm ok with the current progress being made:

 

The first being the fact that anything other that the original hardware will never meet the expectations of the "nostalgic gaming purist". Psychological fact. It's why people gravitate towards nostalgia in the first place. But we as human beings tend to see the past through rose colored lenses. I played my Atari (& later NES) on a 15" B&W TV with a coat hanger for an antenna, and bad horizontal hold. Not exactly "Hi-def". When I got my Genesis in '91, I had my parents' hand-me-down color living room TV that also had lots of issues (hence why they bought a new one). I know most of you other older gamers did too back then (maybe it was the tiny TV you had to share in your dorm room "Revenge of The Nerds" style), So to be honest, you're already adulterating your classic gaming experience just by utilizing your modern flatscreen TV. I had very few games (or had to rent them), & I always fought over the controllers with my siblings. I don't have to worry about that stuff anymore, so in a way, things will never be exactly the same as the "good old days". But YES, I do want my games to play as authentic as they were meant to be played. Do I expect them to be perfect? NO. I'm just glad someone made a INTV Flashback at all. It beats wishing for one. I also have to say everyone wants to compare the Flashbacks to N'ntendo. Well their products aren't perfect either. The controls have lag (albeit little), and I have personally discovered glitches in a couple of the SNES titles. Far from the quality I would've expected from the "big N". But, I do know that if I complained to N'ntendo, my email would never make it out of the spam folder. At least AtGames does welcome customer feedback. That's a huge plus in my book. I don't think there has been any change at all hardware-wise from the FB4 to the FB8-SD, other than a different games list, and if you pay attention to the forums, you already knew that going into it from year to year. I like the HD models, I bought both. Atari is better than the Genesis HD, but still way better than the SD AtGames Genesis. And believe, me I have been tempted to buy the SD Genny for years. I stopped in a Family Dollar almost everyday on the way to work (because of location convenience) & had to stare at that pretty box with the "Genesis logo" on it every time I waited in the checkout line. I watched the price drop every "after X-mas sale", but had to tell myself; "Nope, don't do it! It's garbage", & I never did buy one. I bought the portable. From my understanding, it's the same (or similar) hardware. It works just good enough for my portable needs, but I couldn't bear to play it for hours on a big screen. So Yes, I totally agree with Sn8k on that aspect, but I also understand the volume of work that has to happen even to get such a product produced. First the SD units use an ancient ARM processor that I'm surprised is even capable of emulating anything other that NES or Atari. Then you have to program the emulator. As Bill said, Hyperkin got into some trouble for using someone else's without permission. Yes it's 2018, and the emulation should be perfect, but most gamers that use emulators, don't realize the development aspect to writing a successful emulator. The popular ones are the collective work of many people working in their spare time on an open source project for decades. I first used Stella back in the late 90's. It's still not 100% perfect, and ports of it run worse depending on what OS it runs on. The programmers at AtGames, (I'm assuming) aren't afforded that kind of deadline, or labor force. It would be like if you asked 3 guys to build & design the latest sports car all by hand, & give them a couple months to get it done, and for under an affordable pricetag. Not an easy task, & I'm sure such a car wouldn't meet mandated safety or performance requirements. I'm not trying to sound like an ass, just trying to put the whole thing in perspective. Another problem is that most newer programmers aren't at all familiar with the way CPUs from the 70's & 80's work. I've experienced this "technological generation gap" in some of my makerspace collaborations. Programmers today just type commands, and "poof!" magic happens. They have no concept of memory conservation, cycle counting, or any low level processing fundamentals. This is the knowledge required to make a good emulator. Not to mention the specs on the older hardware are still under copyright, and most of the knowledge of such proprietary co-possessors and sound chips have come from reverse engineering them by hackers.

 

Before I rant too much, my second observation is that I remember the early days of the Retro VGS Kickstarter (before the IT guy was exposed as a scammer). They were taking requests & feedback about what could make the hardware better. Of course fans responded. I remember seeing "proposed" specs at one point in time that touted "multi-layered gold plated PCBs" FPGA compatibility, non-volitile SRAM, every AV standard connector socket known to man, 5G Wifi, super ultra bit widgets, Spacely sprockets, & all other manner of ridiculousness that was to be crammed into this monstrosity of a game console. At that point, I knew they wouldn't make their Kickstarter (I even made a bet with my wife it wouldn't happen). Point is, the price point kept shooting up, & in the end, they couldn't even come up with a prototype unit. So, yes, I do like AtGames business model of "not biting off more than we can chew" and keeping hardware simple and economic within reason. We just seen the first taste of what's to come with the HD units. The specs are comparable to Raspi or NES mini hardware (in some cases, better); so there is room for great things to come in the future. I'm excited, They have Hyperkin beat because the Hyperkin HD units (other than retron 5) are just standard famiclone ASIC hardware with an cheap AV2HDMI circuit added on board. so, to have an HD console that has a true on board PC that runs Linux, to me, is way beyond anything else previously released. The only other "name in the game" is to find an old Radica Genesis plug & play and perform the DIY cartridge connector mod on it to play carts. Which it would still be in standard def RCA AV, but it seems to play fairly authentic in the same way the Flashback 2 did for Atari games.

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If this happens, I think my one mandate is for the Data East arcade ports to be here. No Burgertime, Bump 'n' Jump, and Lock 'n' Chase means no sale. It was by far my biggest disappointment with the first one.

 

Also toss in Diner and Deadly Dogs while you're at it and have the Burgertime license. You'll never get the Tron license, but hacking Deadly Dogs out of the INTV port of Dig Dug to make it a standalone release would hopefully be non-infringing enough to get that easter egg version of Tron Deadly Discs out on an Intellivision Flashback 2.

 

I'm just asking because I never played it, and everyone keeps mentioning Burgertime. Was it good on INTV? I thought the NES version was pretty close to the arcade? (I kinda stopped playing Popeye on 2600 in lieu of the NES version for the same reason).

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Both are excellent versions of the game, but if you're just wondering if the Intellivision version is superior to the later NES release, I wouldn't say that.

 

But given the capabilities of the Intellivision hardware and the controller, they did a top notch job in bringing it home to the system. It was very well received and is one of the most common releases for the system as a result. And while time perhaps hasn't been kind to many of the deeper Intellivision classics like the sports lineup, this one remains very accessible today.

Edited by Atariboy
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If this happens, I think my one mandate is for the Data East arcade ports to be here. No Burgertime, Bump 'n' Jump, and Lock 'n' Chase means no sale. It was by far my biggest disappointment with the first one.

 

Also toss in Diner and Deadly Dogs while you're at it and have the Burgertime license. You'll never get the Tron license, but hacking Deadly Dogs out of the INTV port of Dig Dug to make it a standalone release would hopefully be non-infringing enough to get that easter egg version of Tron Deadly Discs out on an Intellivision Flashback 2.

Deadly Dogs still has the Tron Recognizer, it's the only thing in Tron Deadly Discs that's infringing other than the title. [same thing might apply to Mazeatron and Solar Sailer.]

 

Best thing to do is just modify or remove the Recognizer body leaving the eye.

 

I'm just asking because I never played it, and everyone keeps mentioning Burgertime. Was it good on INTV? I thought the NES version was pretty close to the arcade? (I kinda stopped playing Popeye on 2600 in lieu of the NES version for the same reason).

Intellivision Burgertime is well done. Some of the board layouts are annoyingly puzzle like. If you want to play arcade versions, just play Mame. The Intellivision controller is very good for four way games like this.

 

Both are excellent versions of the game, but if you're just wondering if the Intellivision version is superior to the later NES release, I wouldn't say that.

 

But given the capabilities of the Intellivision hardware and the controller, they did a top notch job in bringing it home to the system. It was very well received and is one of the most common releases for the system as a result. And while time perhaps hasn't been kind to many of the deeper Intellivision classics like the sports lineup, this one remains very accessible today.

The original Intellivision sports games are still great. The only issue is many are for two players only. The originals are superior to the "super pro" versions, except World Championship Baseball, Mountain Madness, Chip Shot are also worth playing. I found Boxing to be the weakest cartridge in the original Intellivision sports network. NHL Hockey was a little disappointing but still fun to play. Only play Auto Racing in one player mode, it's a great driving game. Edited by mr_me
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