"Retrobrited" computer sales - Am I the only one veering away from these?

[eightbit]

Every time I see an auction or a sale elsewhere where someone proclaims they have used the retrobrite treatment, I kind of cringe. I know in theory it "works" for what it is intended to do, but in some cases it seems to work too much. I am seeing computers for sale that are just "too bright" in my opinion. What I mean is unnaturally bright. It was a great idea when it came up years ago I thought, but now it seems to be ruining computers in my eyes.

 

I guess if you have an extremely yellowed vintage computer anything is better, but I have seen some people perform this process on machines that are barely yellowed just to see what more can be done with some disastrous effects.

 

I personally say "leave it" unless it is so grossly yellowed that you feel it needs to be done. Whats your take?

[Keatah]

I'd rather do it with my own 'retrobrite' mixture.

[akator]

In my experience the longevity of RetroBrite restoration varies greatly. Some cases stay looking good for years, others go back to being discolored.

 

For example, I had a classic Macintosh that was almost brown with discoloration. A few rounds of RetroBrite brought it back to the original "platinum," but it was noticeably yellowing again in 2 months and pretty nasty in a year. It wasn't as bad as before I RetroBrited it, but it didn't look good, either.

 

There are people who don't mind disassembling their equipment and repeating the process whenever needed. I'm not one of them. For me it is better to be patient and get a machine that looks the way I want it to at the time I purchase it. I may have to pay a little more but it isn't more than I would spend on RetroBrite supplies let alone the time. All of the machines that looked good when I bought them still look good. Only half of the machines I used RetroBrite on still look good.

 

So no, I don't buy RetroBrited machines. I would rather someone do a pro paint job that matches the original colors because if properly done that looks great and doesn't discolor over time.

[BassGuitari]

Retrobriting is fine when it's done right, IMO. Problem is some people overdo it and the thing ends up looking bleached, rather than just "un-yellowed."

And yeah, sometimes the treatment needs to be repeated. But I've had good results the few times I've done it.

[Keatah]

I guess the ultimate goal is to hide the Bromide as it comes to the surface and oxidizes - that's what painting does.

 

With retrobrite there may be more of the Bromide stuff deep down. Ready to surface again. It only goes brown when exposed to air, so some sort of gentle sealant and protectant like Armour All works as a good preventative.

 

I'm pleased with the little bit of RB I've done.

[juansolo]

I've done it to a few of my recent purchases. The thing that got me started was buying a badly yellowed C64 which wasn't even close to the colour it was supposed to be. I followed that with an A1200 which in itself wasn't bad, but it's keys looked like it smoked 40 a day and it's monitor and PSU looked even worse. Finally I had an STE that had gone almost green! All have been restored to close to what they originally were. None looks like they've had their teeth bleached or anything like that. But then again, it ain't that sunny here so I suppose it'd difficult to over do it

 

Would I buy a machine that had been done and done well? Certainly. Yellowing happens. Not a lot you can do about it and keep it original, so retrobrite can temporarily restore things back to how they were. Just cover them up when not in use to at least try and slow the process. That said, yellowed machines tend to go cheaper so it's unlikely I'd spend more on one that looked prettier due to retrobriting.

Edited March 28, 2017 by juansolo

[The Usotsuki]

What these people call yellowing, I call patina.

[Grimakis]

I haven't done it, but I have seen it done with good results. However the issue appears to always return, as the retrobriting only does the surface. Beneath that there are plenty more discolouring agents waiting to come up to the surface.

[Retro-Z]

I've always preferred getting machines that are still in good, presentable condition. In some instances the discoloring is due to UV exposure, but in others it's simply caused by the chemical composition of the plastic.

 

In other words, if the plastic components still look good 20-30 years later, there is a good chance they'll continue to look good for many years to come if stored properly.

 

However, machines with plastics that needed the Retrobrite treatment will likely discolor again simply due to the composition of the plastic itself.

 

Or... just focus on collecting vintage IBM PCs (5150, 5160, etc.) that used painted cases and much higher grades of plastic. LOL. I've not yet seen an IBM 5150 keyboard that was badly yellowed.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Retro-Z

[+save2600]

I've yet to try it myself, but have owned a couple of consoles that were retrobrited... and both had a different feel to them than normal. So it seems that the process also changes the texture of the plastic too. Personally, like most here, I prefer consoles and computers that haven't been messed with that way. OR any other way usually.

[spacecadet]

I haven't tried it, but recently it seems that it's basically always temporary. Since the RB process itself is so new, it's only coming to light now that it seems to basically always reverse itself. It just may take a little longer with some products than others, perhaps owing to the specific material involved, the length of time the RB mixture was left to soak in, etc. But from what I've seen, I don't trust the process to be a long-term solution at all.

 

So any listing I'd see that says it was RB'd, I'd assume to mean that thing is going to be yellow as a banana within a few years. Since I like things that *aren't* yellowed, I'd pass on a listing like that and look for one that is original but *not* RB'd. Admittedly, if these guys start getting wind of the fact that people are avoiding their RB listings, they may just stop announcing that fact. In a lot of cases, it might then be hard to tell what's RB'd and what's just a clean example of an original. But I think people who do RB do tend to overdo it a bit, so I'd probably look for something that does show signs of age, but just hasn't gone completely yellow or orange.

[JustinMSalvato]

I'm interested in using RetroBrite on my Macintosh 512 and Coleco ADAM but.... I don't want to mess with chemicals. At the same time, the discoloration does give it more authenticity

 

An acquaintance of mine used Magic Eraser on his Coleco ADAM. It definitely got rid of the coloration but it made it... GLOSSY. The ADAM was now shiny & white. Looked kind of cool, but sad at the same time. With M.E., you are literally scraping plastic away.

[juansolo]

My argument for it is that if something's going to go yellow, it's going to go yellow. It's a chemical reaction after all. So post retrobriting, if you keep it covered when not in use it'll certainly slow the process. That said, it's not a big deal to re-do the process 10 years down the line or whenever necessary.

 

FWIW this is my C64 before and after... I think it was worth doing regardless.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by juansolo

[JustinMSalvato]

My argument for it is that if something's going to go yellow, it's going to go yellow. It's a chemical reaction after all. So post retrobriting, if you keep it covered when not in use it'll certainly slow the process. That said, it's not a big deal to re-do the process 10 years down the line or whenever necessary.

 

FWIW this is my C64 before and after... I think it was worth doing regardless.

 

 

 

Geezus, that does look like new!

Edited April 1, 2017 by JustinMSalvato

[Omega-TI]

Has anyone tried spraying a so-called "retro-brighted" case with a UV clear coat?

 

 

[juansolo]

In theory it'll work as not only will it filter UV, it'll seal the plastic so stop any gassing and what have you. But it will feel painted which is not what I personally was after. If they'd been beyond recovery, I'd have painted them a different colour. If you're gonna go for it, you may as well go purple

[Nebulon]

If it just reverts back to the sun-altered color again then this whole Retrobrighting thing is a bit terrifying.

 

Is there a way to tell whether or not something has been retrobrighted if no one tells you?

[eightbit]

If it just reverts back to the sun-altered color again then this whole Retrobrighting thing is a bit terrifying.

 

Is there a way to tell whether or not something has been retrobrighted if no one tells you?

 

Well, I can usually tell when it looks "too good". Sometimes people go overboard with the process and you get like a bright white Apple IIGS for example. Or, they go over a case badge and it discolors or removed the color entirely from it. Some other times people don't look at the details and you see case edges that are a strip of yellow while the rest is bright white. I guess it helps to know what to look for and to know what the machine in question originally looked like. None of my machines are retrobrighted and aside from a yellow back IIGS monitor all of my machines are not yellowed at all...which I contribute to dust covers that had been used with every one of them since purchase. I know that technically it is the oxygen that is supposed to discolor these ABS plastics, but every computer that I have that is pristine and non yellowed had a dust cover on it...so I live by that.

 

Retrobrighting will reverse itself over time if it is not sealed with UV clearcoat, but then as stated in the previous post the coating makes the system not feel original. It is also noteworthy to add that retrobrighting weakens the plastic.

Edited April 9, 2017 by eightbit

[juansolo]

Yellowing plastics are a fact of life sadly. My Dreamcast, that I've had from new, just turned this colour from being out most of it's life and exposed to UV. I don't smoke... That I re-shelled (on the left) because I had a friend with a dead DC in the states that was still white. Will it turn yellow being left out for 20 years exposed to UV, probably. But for now it's white again and I didn't retro-brite it. That said, now it's non-orignal being a UK DC in a US case. I may do the UK case anyhow and see just how close I can get it. But I prefer the red swirl...

 

 

My experience to date with retrobrite has only been positive. I've turned a rough looking old Atari ST that I was given, from almost green back to grey (case and keys), recovered the C64 from badly yellowed (keys just needed thoroughly washing on that), an A1200 keyboard back to white (apart from the space bar that's still a shade of yellow. Impressive resilience to the Retrobrite there) Interesting that the case itself didn't need it, it's PSU that looked like someone had had a go at applying yellow camouflage to and finally a magnificently yellow 1085S. Odd things on top of that. Some old controllers, mice, external Cumana FDD, yadda. The Spectrum that I was given was in such a state that it got painted... Nothing to do with the sun as it was black, more to do with abuse/neglect. Sadly satin black and not purple... I admit I did consider it.

Edited April 9, 2017 by juansolo

[juansolo]

Pretty much everything in the attached picture has been done. I wish I had a before pic to show you how bad the monitor and PSU were in particular. The monitor you can see it's original colour where the flap used to be. Now I could have probably given it a couple more goes and got it there, but getting it to where it is was two sessions outside in the sun (same for the PSU, they were both amazingly bad) and it looks so much better than it used to. But the mouse, external drive and keyboard were all done here also.

 

A byproduct of retrobriting means that all of these things have been stripped and cleaned inside and out. That includes overhauling where necessary (cleaning drive heads, moving parts, etc). The Amiga was re-capped because when it was apart I noticed some were leaking.

I just don't see it as in any way detrimental. I'm not sure how it would weaken the plastic. The fact that the machine is 20/30 years old and plastics get brittle over time and heat might have a lot more to do with it. Bromine is not impregnated in there for strength, it's a fire retardant.

 

The downside that seems to be bandied around is that it's not permanent. Which it's not going to be. Any plastic exposed to UV that has bromine in it is going to discolour. If something hasn't over this period of time it's either got less in it or it hasn't been as exposed to UV. If it has you either accept it or retrobrite it. Which are the only ways of dealing with it and keeping the kit original.

Edited April 9, 2017 by juansolo

[fimbulvetr]

There has been an intriguing thread on 68kmla.org where people have been seeing success in getting a retrobright effect with sunlight alone, no goop: https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/29335-retrobright-effect-from-uv-alone-no-additives/

[JustinMSalvato]

There has been an intriguing thread on 68kmla.org where people have been seeing success in getting a retrobright effect with sunlight alone, no goop: https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/29335-retrobright-effect-from-uv-alone-no-additives/

 

I get a broken link

[Keatah]

Perfect! Sunbathing and classic computing. Life doesn't get any better than that, does it?

[Nebulon]

Perfect! Sunbathing and classic computing. Life doesn't get any better than that, does it?

 

As long as you've got your Sunblock 5000, you're good!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCTSCAQzY9k

[Omega-TI]