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Antonia 4MB or Ultimate 1MB which one and why?


scotty

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5 hours ago, SS said:

I can confirm that I put an ANTONIA into my un-upgraded 16K 600XL and it works perfectly. 

 

In addition to the two missing ram chips, my Antonia board runs happily with the following devices removed from the 600xl.

 

OS ROM

BASIC ROM

MMU

74LS158N x 2

74LS32N x1

74LS51N x 1

74LS375N x 1

 

 

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5 hours ago, slx said:

Do I understand correctly that ANT.EXE is still required to change from one OS ROM config to another?

(@flashjazzcat's menu that allows to perform that is really neat on the U1MB and Incognito. I assume Antonia doesn't have the possibility to include such a menu?)

Yes, currently the hardware does not support any such online menu, therefore an external program must be used.

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ANT.EXE is so easy and intuitive to use!  But I wonder... did you ever come up with a way to identify the OS/BASIC slots?  I'm thinking you had an idea in mind a few years ago that "dropped" one slot and used that space for labels. (?)

Xmas greetings, drac030!   

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6 hours ago, Larry said:

But I wonder... did you ever come up with a way to identify the OS/BASIC slots?  I'm thinking you had an idea in mind a few years ago that "dropped" one slot and used that space for labels.

Yes, but that wastes one entire slot to hold just few hundred bytes of information. I was rather thinking about the assumption that at least one slot contains a 400/800 OS - 6k of the ROM is free then and one could store the info especially in the place where XL OS has the selftest. But what if all slots were occupied by XL-type OS-es? This solution would not work then. So ANT now saves information about slots to a disk file.

 

6 hours ago, Larry said:

Xmas greetings, drac030!

Thanks, Merry Christmas to you too.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I just got my Antonia card and figure I will share some info I don't see printed anywhere else:

 

This is the power consumption on my 800xl with stock hardware

image.png.1c861e5e377d589f7011bbfb3743beec.png

 

 

This is the power consumption on my 800xl with Sys-Check providing the OS switcher and RAM upgrade

image.png.f8d5775aaabb05efd133f339a0cc10a7.png

 

 

This is the power consumption on my 8000xl with Antonia providing the OS switcher and RAM upgrade

image.png.cee4be3de3a9af3a261f2c3771ebe665.png

 

I have amost cut my power usage in half. Are there similar numbers for the U1MB I wonder? Ultimately it would be a bit apples vs oranges as the U1MB tries to do many more things - but these numbers are interesting all the same.

 

The Antonia has replaced almost a dozen chips in my computer and the results are what you see. Not frequently mentioned, if you have a computer with a bad chip(s) - this might be a further good solution for the repairs as well. I would rather buy this than source replacement RAM for instance and there are entire threads here on the forum of people rebuilding the delay line (U29 800xl) from PCB for instance.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

May I ask, what's the benefit to the W65C816 CPU over the 6502 in real life usage?

So far I would say not many. I might get some improved IDE+ speeds in SDX but aside from that I have read only about the possibility of rare compatibility problems in 6502 mode.

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36 minutes ago, MrFSL said:

So far I would say not many. I might get some improved IDE+ speeds in SDX but aside from that I have read only about the possibility of rare compatibility problems in 6502 mode.

For what it's worth, I've been watching countless video's on the Ultimate 1MB and that's the device I'd be going for. It's got all the memory you're ever likely to need on an 8bit machine, it has a RTC and IMO built in SpartaDOS is a real selling point - Not to mention the Ultimate 1MB's compatibility with other devices like Side 2/3 and Sophia.

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Well... in terms of compatibility the same author of Sophia is the author of Antonia (Simius.) He also makes a device called IDE+ which is a PBI IDE interface (HDD) with RTC, SDX, HDD, etc, etc, etc.

 

But there is no wrong answer here.

 

And I believed this installation a bit cleaner, easier, and more able to be reversed with my skillsets:

 

681912810_Screenshotat2021-01-1323-38-25.png.6c5901865ea37c3086311f39be376392.png

 

Than what this would have been for me:

 

2129361004_Screenshotat2021-01-1323-37-48.thumb.png.ec1e7280bc8c1be0ac2465b6eb024c28.png

 

 

Edited by MrFSL
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14 minutes ago, MrFSL said:

Well... in terms of compatibility the same author of Sophia is the author of Antonia (Simius.) He also makes a device called IDE+ which is a PBI IDE interface (HDD) with RTC, SDX, HDD, etc, etc, etc.

 

But there is no wrong answer here.

 

And I believed this installation a bit cleaner, easier, and more able to be reversed with my skillsets:

 

681912810_Screenshotat2021-01-1323-38-25.png.6c5901865ea37c3086311f39be376392.png

 

Than what this would have been for me:

 

2129361004_Screenshotat2021-01-1323-37-48.thumb.png.ec1e7280bc8c1be0ac2465b6eb024c28.png

 

 

Well that's a valid point. If you're worried about soldering than the best solution is the one that's plug and play. The only real concern is compatibility issues due to the use of the W65C816 CPU

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5 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

The only real concern is compatibility issues due to the use of the W65C816 CPU

...and I am not so sure how much of a legitimate concern that is. So far, so good, and I have spent some time throwing software and tests at this thing. If one plans on doing everything that anybody every has done to an Atari I'm sure that person would discover issues. Yet, I won't be using it in this way.

 

My thought process likens it to wanting to run software that requires VBXE or any other add-on. I don't have the VBXE. I can't run those things. It's ok that I can't run those things. I see it less as "incompatible" and more like "inability." There isn't much difference but one of those makes me feel better because the other makes me feel like my Atari is broken in some way. LOL!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mazzspeed said:

Well that's a valid point. If you're worried about soldering than the best solution is the one that's plug and play. The only real concern is compatibility issues due to the use of the W65C816 CPU

the incompatibility issue of 65816 in Antonia or PIA in U1MB can be easily solved: Antonia PCB with 6502 processor ? works great.

 

3362012800_1578472551.jpga6502.thumb.jpg.636d62911a6569b45accc0189f924703.jpg

 

 

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1 minute ago, xxl said:

I bet only me: D

That is what I read somewhere but it sounds like you would still promote that configuration which is good to know. I wonder if Simius would build with 6502s or empty sockets for 6502s. It might bring the manufacturing costs down and save him from having to source the W65C816. A socket might make it a rather tight fit in 800xls. Still... I never asked. I am happy to have the W65C816. It gives me something else to learn and play with... although it is SO FAR back on my proverbial back-burner that I might be dust before I get enough knowledge to play with it.

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I’d go with U1MB because it offers more IMHO.

F.I. Switching stereo POKEY from the menu (I hate external buttons or switches). It also offers two “generic” outputs that you can control from the menu. I use one for switching between NTSC and PAL ANTIC.

also IMHO 4 OS ROM slots seem more than enough and so is 1MB.


someone mentioned video issues caused by U1MB....how do these look ?

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9 hours ago, MrFSL said:

Well... in terms of compatibility the same author of Sophia is the author of Antonia (Simius.)

I can't speak for the author of the post, but I suspect 'compatibility' here may refer to built-in support for device configuration in the U1MB firmware. A forthcoming U1MB update allows setting of the Sophia 2 resolution and other feartures and PokeyMAX facilities from the firmware setup menu, via plug-in modules. These settings are therefore available with a press HELP+RESET, at any time.

 

There are no known hardware incompatibilities between U1MB and Sophia and U1MB and IDE+, so - as said - I assume plugins are what's being referenced here.

 

Edited by flashjazzcat
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  • 2 years later...
9 minutes ago, macsonny said:

Perfect - thanks! Any install instructions for the 800XL. It looks like I just remove the two ICS but I also saw one where an eight pin IC was removed?

no worries

 

https://atari-owner.com/club/articles/antonia-4mb-upgrade.44/

 

Taken from above site:

 

Installation
far too simple really,
■ remove CPU
■ remove U18 [600xl only]
■ remove MMU
■ insert Antonio board
■ connect Antonio ribbon cable to MMU socket

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  • 1 month later...
On 12/20/2020 at 6:14 PM, shoestring said:

In addition to the two missing ram chips, my Antonia board runs happily with the following devices removed from the 600xl.

 

OS ROM

BASIC ROM

MMU

74LS158N x 2

74LS32N x1

74LS51N x 1

74LS375N x 1

 

 

So glad I found this (finally)! I don't know if it is THE post I was looking for, but can anyone confirm if this is the complete list of what Antonia replaces/bypasses (including all ram chips)?  Also which component is referenced by 74LS32N x1? On this build of materials (BOM):

https://ezcontents.org/atari-800xl-bill-materials-bom

 

a word search for '74LS32N' provides no results. I know sometimes you don't need the 'n' when searching for compatible parts, yet 74LS32 [no N] also has no search results. Eliminating the '2' at the end and 74LS3 has one result (U28) which is already covered in the last listed component:

U28 74LS375 1 LS 375

 

This info will be very helpful to me to troubleshoot why my brand new build only works with Antonia installed as a 'bypass crutch'. I note that it bypasses stuff the U1MB does not because my working U1MB is fine in my daily driver but won't work (yet) in my current build from scratch I mention here:

 

 

Any further details would be most helpful!! Thank you!

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