Spartados question.

[moonlight_mile]

This may be a dumb question but I am gonna ask it anyway.

 

If back in the late/mid 80s I formatted a disk with spartados (and wrote to it with spartados) Can atari dos 2.0 read the disk?

[drac030]

No.

[_The Doctor__]

need more info.... Sparta could have formated it in any number of ways and depending on the drive used, was it a us doubler drive? Double density enhanced density single density.... it not is readable in the sense you get a directory..... but if single sided single density it could be readable by way of sector copy techniques (grab the data and re-save for each file...not fun.)

Edited May 4, 2017 by _The Doctor__

[moonlight_mile]

need more info.... Sparta could have formated it in any number of ways and depending on the drive used, was it a us doubler drive? Double density enhanced density single density.... it not is readable in the sense you get a directory..... but if single sided single density it could be readable by way of sector copy techniques (grab the data and resave for each file...not fun.)

I think there is an outside chance it may have been formatted on a quad density drive. I got a Percom up and running and only have the original tandon drive. So I might try to get my hands on an old quad density drive. I just wanted to make sure that the directories weren't incompatable with dos 2.0. When I put in the disks and do a directory I it just tries to read the directory and then errors out.

 

Thanks for the info.

Edited May 4, 2017 by moonlight_mile

[1050]

The directories are incompatible, what you get with

error is to be expected when trying to read a Sparta

disk with DOS 2.0. Error number might help whittle

down something.

[+DrVenkman]

Any particular reason why you wouldn't boot up SpartaDOS to read the files?

[+Roydea6]

T716.ZIP

 

I found this program on an old floppy or atr. There is a basic listing and an ABC basic compiler both named T716 (for the year 2016)

 

boot with either MyDos or SpartaDos 33a or SpartaDos X rom.

and run the T716.com file or load basic and enter the listing..

 

 

[_The Doctor__]

if you were using the percom quads, you must have an atr8000, black box floppy, or similar controller to read them, really cool if you have an actual! and at that point sparta dos is needed.. unless someone has come up with a sector editor / copier that handles the quads... I ran a BBS on those and did not find anything to do it at the time.... we wrote/modified our own, and it would be on a quad disk with the board where ever our drives ended up....

Edited May 5, 2017 by _The Doctor__

[+CharlieChaplin]

Hmmm, I thought SpartaDOS is able to format in AtariDOS format (with Menu.COM and its Ainit function or some other program) and it is also able to read from and write to Atari DOS 2.x disks ?!? Do not know however if Menu.COM and its Ainit function was already available with SpartaDOS 1.x or SpartaDOS 2.x...

 

EDIT: Found it with SpartaDOS 2.3 from 1985:

 

I avoid using SpartaDOS (and afaik do not own A8 hardware anymore with built-in SDX), but always have a copy of BeweDOS at hand so I can use Menu.COM to convert files from SDFS disks back onto Atari DOS 2.x disks, if required. In the past I never had to convert files from DOS XE back to DOS 2, I also never had to convert files from DOS 4 back to DOS 2 and rarely had to convert files from DOS 3 to DOS 2. But nowadays it happens from time to time that I have to convert files from SDFS back to DOS 2...

Edited May 5, 2017 by CharlieChaplin

[moonlight_mile]

The directories are incompatible, what you get with

error is to be expected when trying to read a Sparta

disk with DOS 2.0. Error number might help whittle

down something.

I think the error was 138. But not sure. Probably won't be able to check it until Sunday.

 

Since a Percom can only ever be drive 1. Is there a way to boot a Sparta dos atr from my Sio2sd and then "turn off" the Sio2sd drive 1 and turn on the percom so I can try to pull up a directory or make a spartados disk?

[_The Doctor__]

what? my percoms were assigned to 3 and 4 on the bbs... and if the percoms were in quad density they would NOT be in an Atari 2.0 format in Sparta or otherwise....

[_The Doctor__]

Yes, just boot the sparta.atr with the percom off and empty and then shift the d1: slot off on the sio2sd... the percom is then turned on and the disk inserted. You should be able to get something that way.....

[_The Doctor__]

for the curious ...

http://www.robomargo.com/percom/people.html

http://www.robomargo.com/percom/stories.html

http://www.robomargo.com/percom/index.html

It was direct contact to get the drives and to make them work, maybe some one remembers but sadly leukemia has taken the man with all the answers.

Edited May 6, 2017 by _The Doctor__

[moonlight_mile]

Yes, just boot the sparta.atr with the percom off and empty and then shift the d1: slot off on the sio2sd... the percom is then turned on and the disk inserted. You should be able to get something that way.....

Ok. I got to go down and play a little. Here are the latest issues.

 

When trying to read my mystery disks in dos 2.0 (or 2.5. I found a disk with this dos) the error is 138. If memory serves didn't that usually read as Unformatted disk? And if Atari dos can't read Sparta dos directories that could be why dos 2.x is spitting out this error.

 

I tried to put the SpartaDos 1.1 atr in drive 1 of my Sio2sd. The Sio2sd daisy chained to the Percom. However, without the Percom turned on the Sio2sd will light up but is inaccessible to the computer. So...

 

I left the Percom on without a disk in the drive, booted spartaDos up on the Sio2sd. Once that was completed I removed the sd card did a directory command on drive 1 and it just gives the old raspberries sound and isn't able to access the Percom.

 

Now, thinking about it, the Percom I have now has the extender board on it, ( I am guessing to make it easier for drive selection?). I am almost positive the one I had running my bbs on did not have the extender board, just the ribbon cable from the drives to the controller board. I am guessing I used the jumpers on the drives to select what drive numbers were assigned to each drive.

 

Do you know if there is a setting on the extender board to set the drive as drive 2? I was messing around with a few jumpers on the extender board but had no luck.

 

Sorry this got so long.

 

I did manage to get myself a teac quad density drive (just in case the disks are actually qd). But I still need a way of getting the real floppies and the Sio2sd to talk to each other.

 

Will look forward to any input.

[_The Doctor__]

What was the name of the BBS?

The percoms only ever had trouble working with data cassette on the sio....

 

The percom does boot a regular disk all by itself I presume?

 

do you have any brand new known blank disks? if not buy a pack they aren't that expensive if you work a deal in the background...

 

You can experiment without harming any important data disks that way.

 

If you want you can pm me for further help...

Edited May 7, 2017 by _The Doctor__

[_The Doctor__]

May very well be the sio2 sd and percom can't share the just like the percom and data cassette couldn't share. That is why the suggestion to dis able and swap somewhat worked... and as seen the later versions of sparta can format and read atari disk when running the correct program/driver. In any event 3.2 shareware version is easy to download and install on your sd card... if you have the memory just put what you need on the ramdisk... that way even if the sd has to be removed you still have access to your sparta tools and can use them in your attempt to read the drive...

 

let me know what you wish to do....

[_The Doctor__]

scrounging other threads you posted in I see you have a tandon 1a mech... it is not a quad mech it is a single sided 180k mech... you can't read your quads disk with that... you will need another mech and controller...

 

You still got that picture of Marina Sirtis?

 

_Commander Adama__

_The Doctor__

_Blaser_

_The Road Warrior__

Edited May 7, 2017 by _The Doctor__

[1050]

Error 138 is device does not respond, not a normal response

in my experience unless the drive is not numbered correctly

or turned on. It does indicate an underlying issue is

afoot here and that needs correcting before any data is

going to be going from/to the drive.

 

One method to perhaps jump start a drive number change

would be to do a RUN at 07E0 which for some unknowable

reason seems to be the universal DOSINI vector storage

results. DOSINI is stored at 000C and 000D, what is found

there is almost always 07E0 address. So a run at 07E0

will then do as much as possible in slapping that DOS up

side the head so it can discover a 'new' drive on the

SIO daisy chain - especially one that was turned on

after DOS booted which is when DOS itself does a JSR

jump thru DOSINI vector.

 

In Sparta you type

RUN 07E0

 

In AtariDOS 2.0 type DOS you select M Run at address

and type 07E0 and press RETURN. Normally not much

happens, but in the case of drives powered up that

weren't there before it becomes a necessary thing

to do.

 

Actual model number as found on the drive would help

search on more info like jumper settings etc. We

might have better places to look, you never know.

You say Teac quad density and it might as well be

a quad runner for all that little bit of info does me

any good.

 

Unformatted disk doesn't return any error except

maybe time out if the drive is actually working.

So if Atari_2_DOS tries to read a SpartaDOS directory

it's most likely to return a wrong type error or

in the case of MyDOS which ignores the type, what

ever it can gather from the sectors in the 360th

sector region. It might be the middle of a story,

might be zeros, but it certainly won't be a

directory unless some other Atari_2_DOS has done

some mangling on the disk.

 

Directory pulls won't be a very good way to see

what is on the disk. Load a real sector editor and

use that to do the looking around with instead. End

of the day, it's really the only way to be very

sure what is on that disk in the first place, you

very much need a sector editor program for such

detective work period. Just food for thought when

you get up to speed and can use better DOS and

programs of choice.

[moonlight_mile]

Error 138 is device does not respond, not a normal response

in my experience unless the drive is not numbered correctly

or turned on. It does indicate an underlying issue is

afoot here and that needs correcting before any data is

going to be going from/to the drive.

 

One method to perhaps jump start a drive number change

would be to do a RUN at 07E0 which for some unknowable

reason seems to be the universal DOSINI vector storage

results. DOSINI is stored at 000C and 000D, what is found

there is almost always 07E0 address. So a run at 07E0

will then do as much as possible in slapping that DOS up

side the head so it can discover a 'new' drive on the

SIO daisy chain - especially one that was turned on

after DOS booted which is when DOS itself does a JSR

jump thru DOSINI vector.

 

In Sparta you type

RUN 07E0

 

In AtariDOS 2.0 type DOS you select M Run at address

and type 07E0 and press RETURN. Normally not much

happens, but in the case of drives powered up that

weren't there before it becomes a necessary thing

to do.

 

Actual model number as found on the drive would help

search on more info like jumper settings etc. We

might have better places to look, you never know.

You say Teac quad density and it might as well be

a quad runner for all that little bit of info does me

any good.

 

Unformatted disk doesn't return any error except

maybe time out if the drive is actually working.

So if Atari_2_DOS tries to read a SpartaDOS directory

it's most likely to return a wrong type error or

in the case of MyDOS which ignores the type, what

ever it can gather from the sectors in the 360th

sector region. It might be the middle of a story,

might be zeros, but it certainly won't be a

directory unless some other Atari_2_DOS has done

some mangling on the disk.

 

Directory pulls won't be a very good way to see

what is on the disk. Load a real sector editor and

use that to do the looking around with instead. End

of the day, it's really the only way to be very

sure what is on that disk in the first place, you

very much need a sector editor program for such

detective work period. Just food for thought when

you get up to speed and can use better DOS and

programs of choice.

Gave it a shot in Sparta 3.2. Didn't work. So after talking with the doctor I ordered an sio2pc from atarimax. That should at least be able to allow me to boot up an image and then turn off the sio2pc and allow the disk to have full control. Will let you all know when I get it and how things are progressing.

 

Thanks for all the input.

[Ray Gillman]

On 5/9/2017 at 9:09 AM, moonlight_mile said:

Gave it a shot in Sparta 3.2. Didn't work. So after talking with the doctor I ordered an sio2pc from atarimax. That should at least be able to allow me to boot up an image and then turn off the sio2pc and allow the disk to have full control. Will let you all know when I get it and how things are progressing.

 

Thanks for all the input.

I still have some old hardware but it seems so pointless to try to revive it at this point.  I just use Altirra-2.50 or Atari800Win PLus 4.1 (both work on Win10 64bit)  and access all of the old stuff via ATR disk images.  Also found a utility for my Windows 10 (64 bit) PC that reads the ATR images and lets me edit them add files etc with AtrUtil.exe check them out or let me know if you can't find them.  Now my last challenge is getting a joystick to passthrough and work on Window 10.  For now I am throwing them over to an old modded Xbox original classic xbox with an 800 emulator so I can have working controllers and keyboard on the same machine.  Star Raiders is more fun on the living room big screen anyway.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Ray Gillman