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We got a proof of concept cheap WIFI solution going over at Atari-Forum.

 

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=31586

 

It's based on ESP8266 connected to the serial port.

 

Should work for any atari and the parts are dirt cheap.

 

C64 "wifimodems" are selling on ebay, connecting them to telnet based BBS's. Other retroscenes are also getting in on this aswell.

 

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It looks like a somewhat limited telnet only solution. Nothing wrong with that, but the one we got going over at Atari-Forum got full sting support. Ie, full internet access, including web surfing etc.

 

It uses the same hardware though, so likely just a question of firmware.

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It looks like a somewhat limited telnet only solution. Nothing wrong with that, but the one we got going over at Atari-Forum got full sting support. Ie, full internet access, including web surfing etc.

 

It uses the same hardware though, so likely just a question of firmware.

But does it also do "modem emulation"?

It's not just about the ability to telnet, it's about letting old school programs that want to talk to a "modem" (AT commands) connect through telnet.

 

Something that does both would be great.

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I'm thinking of using an ESP8266-12E device with a MAX3232 level shifter for a WiFi modem for the ST. Amazon sells the HiLetgo New Version ESP8266 NodeMCU LUA CP2102 ESP-12E for $8.39 and I already have the MAX3232 chip. The ESP8266-12E only cost $1.25 more than the ESP8266-01 (lacking the CP2102 USB to serial converter). I figure the CP2102 will be helpful in flashing the firmware with my Windows machine.

 

The Zimodem software on https://github.com/bozimmerman/Zimodem looks useful.

 

Anyone use Zimodem with their Atari ST or use this setup?

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But does it also do "modem emulation"?

It's not just about the ability to telnet, it's about letting old school programs that want to talk to a "modem" (AT commands) connect through telnet.

 

Something that does both would be great.

 

This. That's a total dead stop for me if it doesn't...

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Is this strictly going to be an Atari ST product? Or will it also be marketed to Atari 8 bits? I ask because the Atari 8 bits' ATASCII poses some challenges to most of the current WiFi modems being sold today. To sum it up, the device should be able to operate in raw mode. If it's strictly emulating telnet, then it may have problems displaying ATASCII graphics, or worse, lock up when it sees certain ATASCII characters.

 

For example, my BBS (The Basement BBS) incorporates "cursor magic" in ATASCII mode. That is, it uses cursor positioning characters such as the delete character (character 255). ASCII 255 is an escape sequence in the telnet protocol. Therefore, some WiFi modems may appear to lock up because they are awaiting a valid escape sequence. Users of these modems have to log on with "raw mode," if their WiFi modem supports it, for ATASCII. Otherwise, they are stuck with ASCII modes.

 

-JP

Edited by JohnPolka

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On 5/27/2019 at 12:25 AM, JohnPolka said:

Is this strictly going to be an Atari ST product? Or will it also be marketed to Atari 8 bits? I ask because the Atari 8 bits' ATASCII poses some challenges to most of the current WiFi modems being sold today. To sum it up, the device should be able to operate in raw mode. If it's strictly emulating telnet, then it may have problems displaying ATASCII graphics, or worse, lock up when it sees certain ATASCII characters.

 

For example,  my BBS (The Basement BBS) incorporates "cursor magic" in ATASCII mode. That is, it uses cursor positioning characters such as the delete character (character 255). ASCII 255 is an escape sequence in the telnet protocol. Therefore, some WiFi modems may appear to lock up because they are awaiting a valid escape sequence. Users of these modems have to log on with "raw mode," if their WiFi modem supports it, for ATASCII. Otherwise, they are stuck with ASCII modes.

 

-JP

This device (I have built one myself on a breadboard) is not a wifi modem. It needs a TCP/IP stack to be installed on the system in order to work, so I doubt it could work on an Atari 8-bit.

Edited by Christos

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4 hours ago, Christos said:

This device (I have built one myself on a breadboard) is not a wifi modem. It needs a TCP/IP stack to be installed on the system in order to work, so I doubt it could work on an Atari 8-bit.

Sounds interesting. I wonder if it would still support raw mode or if it only supports telnet mode. Raw mode would be nice with Dualterm Elite (which emulates ATASCII on the ST).

 

-JP

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15 hours ago, JohnPolka said:

Sounds interesting. I wonder if it would still support raw mode or if it only supports telnet mode. Raw mode would be nice with Dualterm Elite (which emulates ATASCII on the ST).

 

-JP

I think that it supports neither. Think of it more like the USB wifi dongle on your PC but instead of USB it connects to the serial port.

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4 hours ago, Christos said:

I think that it supports neither. Think of it more like the USB wifi dongle on your PC but instead of USB it connects to the serial port.

That makes sense. So, unless the TCP/IP Stack supports a raw mode, there may be a problem with emulating ATASCII with it.

 

-JP

 

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On ‎2019‎-‎06‎-‎17 at 12:42 AM, Forrest said:

Atari users in Europe have another source to buy a pre-built WiFi Modem at https://www.simulant.uk/shop/retro-vintage-computer-wifi-modem-rs232-serial-hayes-compatible

 

I purchased the ESP8266-01, but have not mated a RS232 voltage adapter/USB adapter yet.

 

It seems Paul Rickards WiFi Modem is still not in stock.

Actually, this is the same hardware as the wifi solution, using a fork of zimodem called cocowifi. http://subethasoftware.com/2019/05/02/cocowifi-fork-of-zimodem-updated-to-current/

 

Atleast in theory, you should be able to flash Czietz modified firmware and turn this into an ethernet adapter using sting.

 

and flash it back to cocwifi when you want to use it as a telnet modem emulator.

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I like this: " Atleast in theory, you should be able " ...  What about not speculating here, but write something proven, something you tested  ?

And when Czietz is mentioned: In theory, EmuTOS is something much better than regular Atari TOS-es, and they advertise that freeware with some really big promises, to say it nice. Talking about how clean it is made, speed, etc.  The realiity: it is ugly - first impression. Work with disks is slow. And even not compatible 100% with regular Atari disk SW. Ah, compatibility ... that's irrelevant ! "Spectrum 512 is poorly programmed, and we don't support such SW" 😁 - and so it is with about 60% of existing, popular Atari SW. Surely, people buying and maintain old Atari computers to enjoy OS made for what ? Some just forgetting what was made first, and what people really want to do with retro computers. For instance - why WiFi ? Surely to transfer in easy way SW, data on their Atari (it's hard disk) . And then, guess what ? To run, use it 😀

I fixed, patched plenty of old Atari SW, so it can work under all TOS versions. http://atari.8bitchip.info/ASTGA/astgam.php

But never even thought about patching for EmuTOS. There is simpler way, if they want to make it more popular and useful. It's easy to patch old TOS versions - upgrade to later one :idea: Or less easy in case of 1.04, but it still can be made to remain compatible. Thanx.

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On ‎2019‎-‎06‎-‎19 at 8:08 AM, ParanoidLittleMan said:

I like this: " Atleast in theory, you should be able " ...  What about not speculating here, but write something proven, something you tested  ?

And when Czietz is mentioned: In theory, EmuTOS is something much better than regular Atari TOS-es, and they advertise that freeware with some really big promises, to say it nice. Talking about how clean it is made, speed, etc.  The realiity: it is ugly - first impression. Work with disks is slow. And even not compatible 100% with regular Atari disk SW. Ah, compatibility ... that's irrelevant ! "Spectrum 512 is poorly programmed, and we don't support such SW" 😁 - and so it is with about 60% of existing, popular Atari SW. Surely, people buying and maintain old Atari computers to enjoy OS made for what ? Some just forgetting what was made first, and what people really want to do with retro computers. For instance - why WiFi ? Surely to transfer in easy way SW, data on their Atari (it's hard disk) . And then, guess what ? To run, use it 😀

I fixed, patched plenty of old Atari SW, so it can work under all TOS versions. http://atari.8bitchip.info/ASTGA/astgam.php

But never even thought about patching for EmuTOS. There is simpler way, if they want to make it more popular and useful. It's easy to patch old TOS versions - upgrade to later one :idea: Or less easy in case of 1.04, but it still can be made to remain compatible. Thanx.

What is this irrelevant rant about? Could someone translate?

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Here is translation, for ya, geenious 🙂

So, we have thread, linked thread at other forum, with bombastic title (more at  AF than here 🤓 ). Then that component cost for it is about 3 $ . My first thought was "my ass 3 $" .

And sure, lot of posts (luckily not here) - like I need PSU too, Atari serial port is too slow for it, Internet etc. Then some SW, which is supposed to work ...  And that's what made me write here - because it is same people, which claims some false things about EmuTOS.  They are proud because making freeware, open source SW. Is it what people really want ? Free SW, which is free from careful testing, free from being user friendly. Or maybe SW what was tested, done with average user in mind ?

Yes, that's the point here. How many people is interested for some BBS or like now ? Or for Platoterm ? Not just not well tested, but even making SW for which no some bigger interest at all. And on top of all, they are arrogant, not listening to constructive critic, suggestions.

Don't get me wrong, everyone is free to make SW, HW, regardless from how many potential users for it are around. But that, and being free gives not right to claim false things, mislead readers, being arrogant when someone says something not praising.  I talk from own experience, actually bad experience in many cases. There are nice coding people, or some HW solution proposers around, which present their stuff in modest way.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Greenious said:

Sorry, I still don't get it.

Ja. OK, I had some thinking after my involvement in thread about NetUsBee storage driver problems here. So, will write parts of it here.

Because it basically suffers from same approach as this with WIFI, serial on ST. And it is way how SW, precisely driver SW is made and intented for usage. Including manuals.

In short - "I made all it by rules. so it should work.  Ahhh - and testing - for me and my friends worked well" .  Oh - what a surprise ! They use same config, same resident SW .

So, all Atari people on planet must using it too ... Or, I don't know what and why they thinking ...  Hatari - we don't like Windows, it is crap, people should use Linux, so we don't test Windows build. If you don't like it - ehm - use Linux - is anyone paid for propaganda, or they think that will change World ? To add that myself use Linux over 20 years.

And worst part - if someone dares to say them some critic, and that it could be done different - then comes worst part. And that stays for some game coders too - recent case with some comet game here - that was so stupid - and sad to see. "You are here only to criticize, to write bad things ...".  Ah sorry, maybe just wanted that it will be better. Etc. At the end, I can not think other that main problem is that they think that made something almost perfect, so great ... And that flaw may lead to some very bad things ...

 

 

 

 

 

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I still don-t understand what you problem is. You bring up netusb, emutos, platoterm, etc, none of which I am involved.

 

This wifi solution is cheap, and several people got it working, I'm not peddling it, I'm not making any money of it, and Cziets are not making money of it. We are not selling it. it is a DIY solution for people low on funds or not prepared to pay for a ready-to-go solution.

 

Yes, it does require some sort of knowledge to put together. What do you expect? It's "free"...

 

So what is your problem? I do not understand? You want everything spoonfed down your throat? So buy the ready to go solution someone linked to above. Why are you pestering me with whatever your problem is?

 

So now when my rant is over, can we please have the village idiot @sauron appear and ban me from this thread.

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Thanx Greenious.  This " Yes, it does require some sort of knowledge to put together. What do you expect? It's "free"... "  - is probably key of "my problem" .

So, according to you, to many of coders, programmers  - when you make some freeware SW, or maybe something similar (here I can not forget Thorsten Otto's TOS 2/3 C source publishing, and his extremely negative reaction on simple constructive critic at AF) - no need to spend something like half, maybe couple hours to write clear, detailed manual for users. No, because it is free, they don't deserve it 😁 Yes, that's exactly how it sounds. And sounds really stupid, because usually there is much-much more time spent on SW self.  Yeah, I know, some just don't like to write manuals, DOCs - like employees at Atari in those times 🙂  I would like rather to be on beach now and enjoy water. But I feel that I have here some constructive things to say, and maybe make some people to do it better.  Some may say "what he wants ? He charges for his SW."  Truth is that 90% of what I done is total free. Together with YT videos, screenshots and many other, what takes guess what ? Time. To make only 1 , 1-2 minute long YT video you need min 1 hour - that includes recording self, processing, uploading to YT, write text, tags, etc. And adding links, embed in your pages. And it is still free - oh, I must be some really stupid person, because hey - it's free, let people self seek for game videos, screenshots.

For the end: even simple math says that later (my) way is much more efficient, and may say even better for Planet - instead that 100++ people wasting time to find solution (to make SW working, for instance) - only 1 need to spend time for it - yes, that would be programmer, author. That would be caring for people too.

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