XEL-CF Compact Flash Adapter for 1088XEL (formerly XEL-I3)

[flashjazzcat]

You can't, since there's no button. I asked Michael about it (along with card removal sensing) during the design phase, but he didn't think either worth including, which is understandable given the simplicity of the XEL-CF. Hot-swapping of cards was eventually implemented entirely in software (although there's an onus on the user to force a card refresh), but ATR swapping outside of the loader is just not possible without a latched button. Of course, someone else is free to design an MPBI device with the required functionality, and multi-imsge tagging is still present since the ability to attach multiple images to multiple drives is not solely a function of ATR swapping.

 

This is one reason it's possible to flash the stock loader and PBI BIOS to the 1088XEL (you need to flash a SIDE plugin to the main BIOS too). That way, you can use SIDE2 instead of XEL-CF and have the ATR swaps and media ejection sensing.

Edited January 29, 2018 by flashjazzcat

[+DrVenkman]

Ah, well no worries. This will be sitting at my desk next to working 1050’s and an RPi Zero W running RespeQt. It’s not like I don’t have multiple options for running disk images.

[flashjazzcat]

It'll be interesting to see what else is in the pipeline, although I'm not sure how well an ATR swap button would sit with dual CF cards. Any future MPBI HDD adapter which supports a swap button would probably do better to confine itself to a single CF card (same goes for card removal sensing: you'd need a separate media sense register for each card).

[+mytek]

Might make more sense to develop a XEL-CF-III that has these added abilities built-in. The thought of having an add-on board just to pick up these two missing SIDE2 features starts to feel kludgy to me, and will lead to an MPBI stacking problem reminiscent of the stackable ICD cart towers .

[flashjazzcat]

That's basically what I meant: a different adapter.

[_The Doctor__]

Don't pick on the 'Tower of Power' !! I had that stack popped out of the top of an expanded memory 800XL for years! LOL, rtime8, spartax, express!, some language cart, and just cause you could, not that you should GOS.... thought GOS wanted spartax turned off (no extensions) and a disk based DOS instead.. I simply didn't want to disturb the tower.. thought the order of them might have been slightly different by a cart, the game at the top that dead ended it? I'm going to say Star Raiders, I don't know why but I think that's what was there because I played it so d*mn much... memories a funny thing...

[+DrVenkman]

I did some I/O tests tonight with all three of my current storage options on the 1088XEL.

 

First off, my plain-Jane stock 1050 drive with a single-density floppy:

 

 

Next, RespeQt R4 at 3X through the Sparkfun board:

 

 

And finally the XEL-CF-II:

 

 

I think we have a winner.

[cbelcher]

I need some help with my newly built 1088xel and the XEL-CF adapter please, and sorry I haven't been into this since my Atari800, 810 drive and DOS 2.0....

 

The 1088XEL seems to work well -I read files from the SIO2PC and RespeQt. I also set the PBI bios and device 0 in preparation of the CF

Built the XEL-CF adapter and FDISK saw my SanDisk Ultra II 4GB CF card - but not knowing what I was doing I took it over to the Windows PC - formatted in FAT32 and put some ATRs, XEX and other files on it.

Went back to FDISK after watching FJC's tutorial about partitioning and - "No APT devices found".

Tried to format as FAT, FAT32, removed the drive name on Windows- no luck, same error.

In fact I could not get 5-6 other cards from 16MB to 256MB (including another SanDisk) to work except a SanDisk 8MB which is recognized by FDISK and partioned and then formatted in SDX...

Touched up my soldering, reseated the ICs and the cable.

 

Any ideas ?- I have a feeling I may be missing something obvious.

 

Thanks.

[+DrVenkman]

I need some help with my newly built 1088xel and the XEL-CF adapter please, and sorry I haven't been into this since my Atari800, 810 drive and DOS 2.0....

 

The 1088XEL seems to work well -I read files from the SIO2PC and RespeQt. I also set the PBI bios and device 0 in preparation of the CF

Built the XEL-CF adapter and FDISK saw my SanDisk Ultra II 4GB CF card - but not knowing what I was doing I took it over to the Windows PC - formatted in FAT32 and put some ATRs, XEX and other files on it.

Went back to FDISK after watching FJC's tutorial about partitioning and - "No APT devices found".

Tried to format as FAT, FAT32, removed the drive name on Windows- no luck, same error.

In fact I could not get 5-6 other cards from 16MB to 256MB (including another SanDisk) to work except a SanDisk 8MB which is recognized by FDISK and partioned and then formatted in SDX...

Touched up my soldering, reseated the ICs and the cable.

 

Any ideas ?- I have a feeling I may be missing something obvious.

 

Thanks.

 

Here's what I'd suggest: take your first 4GB CF card back to Windows. Once the drive is recognized and mounted by Windows, open up Disk Management (in Win10, press Win+X and select "Disk Management" from the list ...). Select the 4GB card and reduce the FAT32 partition size to about 3GB or so. Once that's done, take the card back to the 1088XEL and run FDISK again. The now-empty and -unallocated 1GB should be visible to FDISK and you should be able to set aside any number of partitions. Assign them the drive numbers and optionally volume labels in FDISK, write the data to the card and quit. Next time you boot SDX with the card inserted, the drives you created should be available. If I remember correctly (it's been all of two weeks since I did this last, lol) you will need to format each new APT partition in SDX but after that they'll be usable.

 

​Now accessing the U1MB Loader should show you that all the stuff you had on the FAT32 partition is still there. And from the SDX command line, the APT partitions you created with FDISK should be accessible and usable.

[+mytek]

I just use FDISK from the get go to decide how much of the card will be dedicated to the partitioned 'Atari' drives, and what will be left for the FAT. Then I set-up the partitions, save it, and exit FDISK. Then if I take the card to my PC it'll already show it as whatever size the FAT area was in FDISK and I can format it and move some XEX and/or APT files to it. Not to say that DrV's method won't work, but I've never done it that way.

 

Of course as DrV mentioned, if you wish to use the Atari drive partitions you'll need to format them first from within SDX using the format command. Then copy over what ever files you want from SIO or SIO2PC (or if you have a dual CF you can also copy stuff over from a 2nd card that has alternate drive numbers assigned to the partitions).

[cbelcher]

Thank you Dr. V,

 

Unfortunately, I can see the (now 3GB) FAT partition in the XEL loader, but still running FDISK v4.5 I get "No APT Devices found" even with the about 1GB non partitioned space.

 

Do I have the right version? Using FJC's toolkit v5 which has FDISK v4.5.

[cbelcher]

So I asked FJC about this behavior - he pointed out I should have Slave Drive turned off...

 

It was - so I turned it ON, with the jumper on my single CF board set furthest from the 44pin cable connector - and FDISK can now see the CF cards - all of them and format them as APT.

 

If I change the jumper - No APT Devices, and if I turn off slave in the U1MB bios - No APT devices.

 

Does this point to a short somewhere in the master/slave pins?

[+DrVenkman]

So I asked FJC about this behavior - he pointed out I should have Slave Drive turned off...

 

It was - so I turned it ON, with the jumper on my single CF board set furthest from the 44pin cable connector - and FDISK can now see the CF cards - all of them and format them as APT.

 

If I change the jumper - No APT Devices, and if I turn off slave in the U1MB bios - No APT devices.

 

Does this point to a short somewhere in the master/slave pins?

 

Interesting. The jumper on my card adapter arrived with the pins NEAREST the IDE cable as jumpered. I'm not sure how the pins are numbered, so I don't know if that's 1-2 or 2-3. But anyway, I've left them that way. I have Slave Drive disabled in the firmware and haven't had any trouble at all.

[cbelcher]

I'm still working this problem - on the bright side, the CF cards seem to work with jumper off or in the 2-3 position - away from the 44 pin connector if slave mode is on in U1MB and the XEL Loader. - I can load files in the loader and I can see APT partitions in SDX under the U1MB.

Still frustrated by it, however since I seem to be the only one unable to use the XEL-CF in Master mode.

 

Reflowed all the solder points on XEL-CF and CF adapter. I checked continuity of pin 1 of the Master/Slave jumper - goes to pin 39 of the CF card (/CS) and pin 2 goes to ground on multiple pins of the CF and 44 pin connectors. Ground is carried to the XEL-CF.

Tried multiple CF cards of various sizes and manufacturers. (see below) Two 8MB cards were recognized as Master - but seem to be erratic.

 

I verified that in the CF world - taking pin 39 (/CS) to ground will put the card in Master mode.

 

I may just build a second to see if it exhibits the same behavior - pointing to the CF cards or mobo.

 

If anyone has built one around Indianapolis, IN would love to meet and try a working XEL-CF and card.

 

Any other thoughts from anyone?

 

 

 

[+mytek]

My first thought when seeing the photo, is that the XEL-CF is only rated to work reliably with SanDisk cards, but I see many other brands in the photo. Not sure if that is responsible for the problem you are seeing, but it likely isn't helping matters either.

[+orpheuswaking]

I'm still working this problem - on the bright side, the CF cards seem to work with jumper off or in the 2-3 position - away from the 44 pin connector if slave mode is on in U1MB and the XEL Loader. - I can load files in the loader and I can see APT partitions in SDX under the U1MB.

Still frustrated by it, however since I seem to be the only one unable to use the XEL-CF in Master mode.

 

Reflowed all the solder points on XEL-CF and CF adapter. I checked continuity of pin 1 of the Master/Slave jumper - goes to pin 39 of the CF card (/CS) and pin 2 goes to ground on multiple pins of the CF and 44 pin connectors. Ground is carried to the XEL-CF.

Tried multiple CF cards of various sizes and manufacturers. (see below) Two 8MB cards were recognized as Master - but seem to be erratic.

 

I verified that in the CF world - taking pin 39 (/CS) to ground will put the card in Master mode.

 

I may just build a second to see if it exhibits the same behavior - pointing to the CF cards or mobo.

 

If anyone has built one around Indianapolis, IN would love to meet and try a working XEL-CF and card.

 

Any other thoughts from anyone?

 

 

 

 

Haven't built my XEL CF out yet but I'm in the Indy area. Somewhat related I'll be showing my 1088XEL prototype build at the Indy Computer club tomorrow (At the Lebanon IN Library from 9am to 2pm)

[+orpheuswaking]

I Still need to obtain some Sandisk cards, but I'll be trying with a couple of Lexar cards that I've had good luck with on my IDEa devices

[cbelcher]

 

Haven't built my XEL CF out yet but I'm in the Indy area. Somewhat related I'll be showing my 1088XEL prototype build at the Indy Computer club tomorrow (At the Lebanon IN Library from 9am to 2pm)

Yes - I was planning on running by with the 1088XEL and a homemade hand wired SD2SIO

[+orpheuswaking]

Yes - I was planning on running by with the 1088XEL and a homemade hand wired SD2SIO

 

Ha, then I wont feel bad if I have to skip it (The wifey is making waves)

[cbelcher]

Would like to try swapping the XEL CF with yours tomorow and see if we get the same result. Would go a long way to troubleshooting.

 

Yeah I will be in the next dog house over. The girlfriend doesn't think it's a good use of my weekend

Edited February 9, 2018 by cbelcher

[+mytek]

Update on CF Card Compatibility

 

Apparently there are some differences in the newer SanDisk Ultra cards with the 50 MB/sec rating that are making them incompatible with the XEL-CF board.

I haven't nailed down what the problem is, and for the time being let's just call it a mystery, but this card will not work in the XEL-CF. It could perhaps be related to the faster speed, but that is not a certainty. The reason I mention this is that I have a couple of SanDisk 4GB Ultra 25 MB/s cards that work flawlessly even when used to stream video.

 

But there is also some good news that is suggesting that at least one particular 8GB model of the Kingston brand looks to be good. I believe the one that has been verified has this front label (notice what almost looks to be a small coin or medallion in the upper right).

 

Which judging by the back label, is a recent manufacture of 2014.

 

Much more common on the used market is a card with a similar looking label minus the round medallion (but it does have a filled triangle upper center).

 

 

This one was manufactured in 2008.

 

 

MacRorie reported good results with the 2014 version of the Kingston card. So I thought I'd give its predecessor the 2008 model a try (got two on the way courtesy of eBay). When I receive those I'll give them a test and report back in.

 

Now for the even Cooler News

 

Here's something that not only appears to be more flexible when it comes to compatibility with various brands of memory cards, but also brings the system up to a more modern spec, that being the use of SD memory cards. Credit goes to flashjazzcat for steering me in this direction.

 

Extreme SD SDHC SDXC To CF Type II 2 Compact Flash Memory Card Adapter

I just got one yesterday, and it appears to create a more uniform bridge that maintains a signal spec that works well with the XEL-CF, while moving it into SD card territory. So this may become the ultimate way to go.

 

It also works with this which opens up a few other possibilities.

 

 

There will be more info to come on all of this .

 

- Michael

[john_q_atari]

Thanks for the update Michael. I am still within my return window so I guess my Sandisk 16gig card and CF card reader are going back to amazon.

[Kyle22]

Michael, have you tested that SD - CF adapter with ANTIC DMA video player yet?

[+mytek]

Michael, have you tested that SD - CF adapter with ANTIC DMA video player yet?

 

Actually I'm having some odd problems with it concerning the FAT32 side of things vs APT partitions (which seem to work just fine). But I kinda doubt that you could stream video with it.

 

 

Thanks for the update Michael. I am still within my return window so I guess my Sandisk 16gig card and CF card reader are going back to amazon.

 

Yeah I've been doing some more testing with other cards, and it's not always clear what will work, and what won't. Unfortunately this part of the R&D process had a very low turn-out of people in the BETA Test Group participating (I think it was only Jon and myself, with Jon doing all the heavy lifting). Luckily the 1088XEL motherboard had almost all hands in, so that has turned out to be very solid. I can't blame anyone for the low turn-out on this particular project, because the excitement had gone away, holidays were upon us, and likely a little burn-out had set in. So with only Jon and myself doing the testing, we pretty much lucked out and had CF cards that worked great right from the get go, and it had us convinced that SanDisk was the way to go. But that didn't turn out to be entirely true as I recently found out. However I'm still fiddling with the board, so maybe something will become apparent that will help broaden the number of cards that will eventually work.

 

In the meantime, the killer test is to launch Numen from within the FAT32 Loader. If it can do that consecutively several times in a row, then the CF card is probably a winner.

[flashjazzcat]

Michael, have you tested that SD - CF adapter with ANTIC DMA video player yet?

I did last year and it works great.