Flojomojo Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I think I see where Coleco®© is coming from. I don't agree, and still think they're pants-on-head stupid for doing this, but still ... This explanation of counterfeit consumer goods on Wikipedia is pretty clear, and it appears to be consistent with Coleco's argument. If I put a Gucci label on a cheap Wal-Mart handbag, that's infringing on Gucci's trademark and could cause confusion in the marketplace. If I attempt to copy their style but don't put a name on it, it's a "knockoff," which may or may not be illegal. In the case of Coleco, it's not what they said they did that is offensive, it's how and to whom it was done that is not cool. Needless to say, Coleco is not Gucci. Or Nintendo. If we were in 1983, and Coleco was actually producing something, things would be different. I agree that intent matters, and confusing the market is a factor as well. As you've pointed out, I don't think a reasonable person could assume that any of these modern home-brews were associated with the Coleco Holdings company. If Coleco is planning to release game-related products, that would be great. They've shown less than zero aptitude or ability for doing so, though. I enjoyed the ColecoVision Flashback for what it was, but there's no way I'd buy another one unless they did the one simple thing that kicked this off: They STILL(!) haven't addressed the very simple matter of retracting their inappropriate claim against ColecoVision Fan's images on Facebook. I will never buy, support, attend, or otherwise patronize anything Coleco does ever again, until they make this right. Backhanded apologies won't cut it. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 Dear Chris Cardillo, Someone once told me... "Being boss doesn't mean you have all the answers, just the brains to recognize the right one when you hear it." I strongly suggest you start doing more listening. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I don't disagree with this, and as I said in my last wall-o-text response, then WHY DID HE GO AFTER A FAN PAGE INSTEAD OF THE CREATORS OF SAID PRODUCTS? The other question I have is: Why after more than a decade of Homebrews using those logos did they only decide it was an issue... NOW? There is more to this story than just "trademark protection" as I don't buy that for a second. I still feel the real core behind a lot of this mess comes from origins of spite and jealousy. But of course there is no real way to prove that. Yes, exactly. That's why I said he went way overboard, and his response to everything that happened after he went after the page has been abhorrent. As for why this is a problem suddenly now, we can only speculate, but I'd say the pending release of their Rainbow Brite games is a significant factor. It's possible they didn't know about the homebrew scene (or did not realize it was using the Coleco logo) back when the Flashback was released, or for that matter when the Chameleon was a thing. It's doubtful, but given that it's probably agreed that Cardillo et. al. are in this for the money, not because they truly give a shit about the community, it may be that they just never really looked into the community at large any deeper than was needed to get a scan scan of what their target market might look like. Hard to say -- both sketchiness and ignorance are equally believable answers when it comes to Cardillo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazball Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 No, you were right Mindfield - Cardillo is not a gamer and couldn't give a shit about games or the gaming community. After all, he didn't even know what a Sega Master System is. It's all about the money and his attempt to sound like he is "after all, fans of the brand and the games" was truly pathetic. Poor ColecoVision, you deserve so much better!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I found this one hilarious (tied to MSX to CV conversions): Wrt Comic Bakery Konami MSX "port" game: http://cvaddict.com/profile.php?gameid=203 One of the slides in the screenshots is this one: Uh? EDIT: Wrt why Cardillo thought TPR was the "producer" well now it's clear as TPR allowed Opcode to portray him as such and actually acted as such in an attempt to assist mediate the SGM licensing situation, so in that regard I can see why once he was convinced TPR was the "producer"/authorized representative and what not he went off assuming it was a real standing agreement between the 2 and not just a one-off ...... he still went nuclear but at least it is partially understandable why he assumed so, once that is in place the fact that TPR also runs the fansite may meddle the water and could be seen as an outlet to "market" the goods he "represented" (in that case the whole OpCode production given he was thought to be the authorized representative).... still too nuclear. Not apologizing for Cardillo, just understanding how he came to the conclusion, I bet the fansite kerfuffle happened after TPR was portrayed to him as the authorized representative for OpCode .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 No, you were right Mindfield - Cardillo is not a gamer and couldn't give a shit about games or the gaming community. After all, he didn't even know what a Sega Master System is. It's all about the money and his attempt to sound like he is "after all, fans of the brand and the games" was truly pathetic. Poor ColecoVision, you deserve so much better!! I didn't know about the SMS thing. There's simply no way in hell you can ever call yourself a retro gamer that goes back to a console released in 1982 if you've never even heard of Sega's first commercially successful console that came after. (I'd excuse lack of knowledge about their SG-1000/SC-3000, those are fairly obscure, but the SMS was a global success. Not on the level of the NES, obviously, but it carved out more than enough market share that you'd have to have lived under a rock buried under other rocks not to have heard of it.) Yeah, sorry, not buying that he's a fan of anything that isn't green and fungible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 Now that I see that the in-fighting has started and people are picking apart what everyone else is saying, it's clear to me that the lines between who is supporting who is being blurred. I did not get into retrogaming for drama and fighting, I got into it because I love classic video games and I wanted to help spread the good word of some of these homebrewers. I here for "fun" not bullshit. With that, I am locking this thread. Albert can feel free to re-open it if he wants or create a new thread, but at this point the only way to make the drama stop is to simply stop the drama. I'm here in NYC with my family having fun. That is what should be important. Not trying to prove how sleazy and scummy this New Jersey pile of trash is (yes, Cardillo, I'm talking about you) because we already know the answer to that. When I find myself stopping what I'm doing while enjoying family time to make posts in this thread, and then watch people pick them apart, I realize that some are not here to clear the lines of what is right and what is wrong, they are just here for the drama. And that is not why I'm here and that is not why I've spent my own time supporting this community. So I'm done. I've said it many times, this all could have been avoided, but Cardillo was just too stupid and too stubborn to do the right thing. To the homebrewers, please make whatever the hell you want to. Licensed games, unlicensed games, it doesn't matter because Coleco Holdings LLC cannot tell you what you can and cannot make. To everyone else, do NOT support anything from Coleco Holdings LLC, do NOT attend their joke of an expo, do NOT support them on any social media. Support the homebrewers, the fan sites, and the people who really make this up this community. Here are some links to check out INSTEAD of the Coleco Holdings LLC pages: http://www.opcodegames.com http://www.collectorvision.com http://www.teampixelboy.com http://ccjvq.com/newcoleco/ http://www.colecovision.dk http://www.cvaddict.com http://colecovision.ca/ http://colecovisionspodcast.blogspot.com/ http://www.colecovisionzone.com/ And if I have missed any, I apologize. But please support those sites and their social media pages along with forums here at AtariAge. And we all thank you greatly for your support! And with that, I'm done... "I'm gay for AtariAge." - PatTheNESPunk 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 As PatTheNESPunk has just posted a followup video (which I haven't watched yet), I'm going to unlock this thread, at least for the short-term, so people can continue to discuss this topic. I understand Robb's frustration, especially having to contend with all this while on a family vacation. This is supposed to be a fun, enjoyable hobby revolving around an entertainment medium (video games). That's what people should really focus on, playing their ColecoVision and other classic consoles! I know Robb will continue to focus on the positive aspects of the hobby and helping to spread the word about the ColecoVision and all the great games and hardware people are creating for it. Please be respectful as we continue... ..Al 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Answering some comments posted here: Coleco was working with homebrew authors since last year, myself included. At least in my case it was never raised any concerns regarding the use of the logo. In fact I was asked to put the Coleco logo back on the 3rd run of the SGM. If Coleco challenge me on this, I can post many emails here to prove what I am saying. Things started to go downhill the moment I left the new console project for reason I have already explained (a certain brand of juice Coleco now drinks). I became persona non grata, and started hearing accusations though others, never sent to me directly. One of the accusations was that I stole the new console specs. I again challenge Coleco to submit their specs so we can compare. In fact I challenge them to submit any specs at all, since the only thing I got was a "console that was better than the NES and could play CV games". Things with Robb started to get downhill when he refused to give Coleco the same treatment he was giving homebrew authors. Since the fan page is his page, it is my understanding he can support whoever he wants. The last straw was probably when Robb decided to promote CollectorVision version of Sydney Hunter instead of Coleco's version and their expo. Soon after Coleco unleashed an attack to Robb website, that they now justify as going after the producer, which Robb never was, at least not for Opcode Games. Games from all 3 major publishers were targeted, not just Opcode, not just "mature". Was Robb a producer for all 3 pubishers, is that what Coleco thought? So if you want to believe that what happened here was someone trying to protect his trademark, fine. That isn't how I see things. As I have stated many times since at least a couple of weeks ago, we are no longer using their logo, and that is the extent of their rights in this matter. We will present our new logo soon. And who knows what good things can come from all of this? 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 "This is supposed to be a fun, enjoyable hobby revolving around an entertainment medium (video games). That's what people should really focus on, playing their ColecoVision and other classic consoles!" I was under the impression (I think it was brought up like 10 pages ago) that people were going to ignore Chris and go back to doing just that. The thread is just a smear fest at this point. "opcode, on 09 Jun 2017 - 2:28 PM, said: We will present our new logo soon. " Looking forward to that for sure! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Fans of Pat Contri take note -- you can hear (and probably see) these things more quickly by subscribing to the rambling but entertaining Completely Unnecessary Podcast. https://cupodcast.podbean.com/ The videos are topic-specific excerpts of the shows that already happened. As others have pointed out, yeah the Coleco Sonic is not full of Sega Genesis games, but rather Sega Master System. This small inaccuracy should not diminish their greater point: Coleco does not hold the moral high ground, and has no business saying things like "DO NOT BE FOOLED." Good job Pat and Ian! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Spriggy Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) ... Edited June 9, 2017 by spriggamortis 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuggerVideoGames Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Thanks for reopening the topic, Albert. It was the prudent move considering the follow-up video. I hope Pat's large following leads to greater exposure on the Coleco circus. Although I've been commenting here quite a bit on the topic, I finally logged into YouTube to comment there as well.This goes well beyond attacking the fan page; just about every little thing Coleco Holdings has done thoroughly stinks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuggerVideoGames Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 To Ben (if you are still reading this topic): I hope Coleco Holdings taking advantage of you does not in any way put a damper on any of your passions. The world is full of slick liars, but I hope you keep being you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 She is supposed to wear a CollectorVision shirt..... 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoofu Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I understand Robb's frustration, especially having to contend with all this while on a family vacation Robb should of ignored Chris's crap during his vacation As Robb doesn't need any defending as the majority of people are on his side, and believe Chris 'delusional' Cardillo is a troll Coleco is just mad since they know the mass public doesn't know of Old Coleco in any shape or form and that some of the retro community is making a original Coleco like device without there logo or 'Laugh' IP Coleco for the last 12 years has only did the bare minimum in trying to keep the trademark since they are just interested in offloading it. So they haven't done much of anything including advertising or developing a platform or buying or creating game IP's and wonder why Indie labels aren't lining up for a sticker 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 since they are just interested in offloading it Ooh, that's an interesting way of looking at it. Maybe that's the real drive behind the Coleco Expo? To put that in the dossier of "things you get when you acquire the Coleco brand." It certainly makes more sense than what they appear to be doing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atm94404 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Answering some comments posted here: So if you want to believe that what happened here was someone trying to protect his trademark, fine. That isn't how I see things. As I have stated many times since at least a couple of weeks ago, we are no longer using their logo, and that is the extent of their rights in this matter. We will present our new logo soon. And who knows what good things can come from all of this? Has it been established if Coleco Holdings even OWNS that logo? I see the expression "trademarks and logos", but so far the only one I've seen proof that Coleco Holdings has actually acquired is just the NAME "ColecoVision". Even that, it seems, they may have been acquired that trademark under false pretenses by passing off Ben Heck's work as their own. But didn't you (or someone else) find that the application to take over the rainbow logo had never been completely executed and withdrawn? And that seems a likely scenario given that Coleco Holdings didn't even have their own print-ready source art for the logo and begged one from Ben Heck that he created from scratch. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evener Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) Thank you for re-opening this thread. While I understand TPRs rationale I prefer that threads run their course (presuming that it remains within the general decorum of the forum). As well - should something new develop down the road after this thread goes dormant its the logical place to start up again while giving new readers a chance to catch up on the background/history. Cheers Edited June 9, 2017 by The Evener 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoofu Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Ooh, that's an interesting way of looking at it. Maybe that's the real drive behind the Coleco Expo? To put that in the dossier of "things you get when you acquire the Coleco brand." It certainly makes more sense than what they appear to be doing. Considering some of there "guests" are event planners such as PartyNerdz https://www.facebook.com/PartyNerdz/ Probably a attempt to confuse any future buyer if it goes well by randomly throwing 80's stuff,retro and "nerd" stuff in a event and hope for the best In a attempt to make it look like Coleco name is the moving factor and is well known in the minds of the general public 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValkerieSilk Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Boobies!!!! She is supposed to wear a CollectorVision shirt..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuggerVideoGames Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Boobies!!!! Just don't tell us that your 8-bit turned into a 64-bit. That would be T.M.I. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClassyGamer Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Can anyone tell me what the difference between the EXCLUSIVE 2017 COLECO EXPO EDITION release is and the regular release https://www.colecoexpo.com/store/p3/PRE-_ORDER_Sydney_Hunter_Game_Cartridge_-_EXPO_GATE_PICKUP.html Were the kits really done up with that little stripe of text on the top. Or is that just shit they added in photoshop for the web page? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 For those who were planning to attending that other expo, may I suggest this: http://retroworldexpo.com/ I know I will be there, and it is Connecticut, home of the original Coleco. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuggerVideoGames Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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