Coleco strong-arming homebrew publishers and fan sites

[DuggerVideoGames]

If said charity also belongs to Chris, RWB, or a partner, it would make perfect sense why said arrangement would be "awkward" to some.^*

 

* = denotes the preceding statement is pure speculation upon my part and has no basis in fact or concrete evidence. There, now I'm covered in the event of a libel suit...

^ Bingo. Like I said so many pages ago, they're up sh*t creek in regards to image and damage control. They never once gave a damn about the brand, its legacy, or doing the right thing. They're all about image and trying to squeeze money out of it.

[whisperingloon]

I don't have anything to add to the actual content of the conversation here -- I know next to nothing about ColecoVision, except I played a game once at the house of a friend of my parents.

 

But watching this unfold has been very interesting, with they way it dips and dives around intellectual property law and personalities and everything. I feel for you guys caught in the middle of this. I keep telling myself these are real people and not just an interesting novel...because it reads like a novel.

Edited June 3, 2017 by whisperingloon

[shawnphase]

yeah i mean, it'd be easy to let it go if this situation didnt get uglier and uglier. cardillo is clearly as much, if not more of a sociopath than mk. imo that warrants beating the drum. facebook is still full of knuckleheads supporting and sharing cardillo's posts, some of em are even users of this forum. without singling anyone out, i saw a member here who was super critical of mk defending cardillo! only way to beat back this kinda ignorance is with loud & proud communication.

[Andromeda Stardust]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/originals/ct-mark-thomann-farmedhere-bsi-20150519-story.html

Indoor farming. So instead of growing crops in a field, which removes CO2 from the air as well as creates a sustainable product, Mark is raising food by converting warehouses into artificially illuminated greenhouses. It doesn't really matter if his growing operation is profitable or not; he is putting orders of magnitude more CO2 into the atmosphere running the electricity to illuminate those plants, then actively filtering out via photosynthesis.

 

And buying a field in the middle of nowhere is probably much cheaper than renting a warehouse in a prime urban environment, so I'm not sure how he actually benefits the environment by doing so. Sure he thinks he is helping, but isn't. And you can probably get some much cheaper produce at your local farmers' market, grown from real earth sod the way mother nature intended, and not in some chemical laden hydroponics tank. I can't believe he is selling produce under the "organic" label while growing his plants from a decidedly non-organic chemical blend.

 

FYI, I use the term "non-organic" here to denote an unnatural biologic process, as opposed to "inorganic" which implies chemical compounds that do not contain the element carbon.

[TPR]

Guys, remember in-fighting among ourselves is the worst thing we could be doing. It shows that we are not stable as a community. I understand people are upset and rightly so. And I agree that repeating thing same things over and over again doesn't really help and neither does any mudslinging at internal or external parties. If there is new information to add to the discussion (GI Joe Homebrews, charity information, etc) that discussion is certainly interesting and adds to the thickness of the plot.

 

Drama for the sake of drama doesn't help. Please keep that in mind. Thank you.

[enoofu]

 

 

Mark is raising food by converting warehouses into artificially illuminated greenhouses

Believe the better word is "was" as Mark was removed as CEO in late 2015 as the company slowly went to bankruptcy, believe he was still a board member till the end

 

Also sounded like the greenhouse company he was running was hoping to jump to another crop more profitable then organic Basil especially after Whole Foods disaster last year but Trump election and delays in Illinois legalizing the crop was the final nail in the coffin

 

 

https://www.dailydac.com/commercialbankruptcy/investors/print-view/5831

Edited June 3, 2017 by enoofu

[cardo1]

Robb, Once again you have falsely slandered my name.

In this latest attempt you suggest that i sell bootleg toys.

These accusations are unfounded and unresearched.

Had you done proper research, you would have found that Hasbro had addressed this concern a number of years back. Hasbro made the statement that they actually ENCOURAGE customization of the GIJOE line. They provided a statement that customizations MAY be created and SOLD provided they are loose and unpackaged. MUCH THE SAME WAY that COLECO encourages independent developers and creation of games on the ColecoVision. We have stated this a NUMBER of times.

HASBRO further clarifies that product art and packaging cannot be reproduced without permission. THIS IS WHAT WE ARE SAYING TOO. You can make games for play on the Colecovision, BUT you cannot use the TM’s on the packaging without permission and you cannot make packaging that is confusing to the original. What is more is that we have offered to make the process painless by offering a style guide with the communities input.

When Hasbro made this statement many moons ago, it was an amazing time and collectors were happy. Coleco, who has the SAME stance is bullied excessively online.

Setting that aside, even without this statement from Hasbro, the customizing of figures would still be legally allowable. Much the same way we cannot stop you from making a COLECO cartridge CASING. *Also withstanding is your Andy Warhol example of 1:1 art as there exists a custom piece of myself given to me as a gift bc lawd knows someone here will pull that one out. At least this is my understanding of the law, and thusly i reserve all our/my rights in this entire matter. It is not my job to give you legal advice.

The toys that i mention in the Hiss Tank forum from TEN years ago that you drudged up (i see that you are having trouble digging dirt), refer to ‘bootleg’ figures that I bought from someone that were passed off BY THEM as the real thing. I believe I disposed of those figures after attempting to send them back to the seller.

Although this was a limited lot at the time, it was not uncommon for me to buy excessive amounts of figures. I had (and still have) accounts with Hasbro distributors. In some instances, I have purchased over 1000 of the same figure, as well as closeouts, prototype materials, cell animation and anything else that was avialble. During the height of my collection it was so vast that it required 3 storage/warehouse locations and exceeded the maximum limits of a collectibles insurance policy. I have been the only person to collect the ENTIRE line as a graded set. There are over 500 items and hundreds of them are only sold with a vehicle.

If you recall in my interviews (if you took the time to listen to them), you will hear me state a number of times that I was initially disliked by the Joe community. It was this ‘bootleg’ matter, in which I made a fuss about that caused that initial resentment. It was that fuss that caused people to customize properly and i would imagine caused Hasbro to clarify this matter.

If you must know, Hasbro is well aware that I have these figures and I even made a presentation to them to acquire a license to package them. The request was denied due to consumer demand.

Did I place the items on sale to remove them from the store? Yep, you betcha. Why? because we have already seen in the forums there that you will file reports on eBay for items that you are not even a party to (well at least say that now despite making such claims to eBay) and eBay is a site that I have used pretty much since its inception. You’ve attempted to interfere with my other business relationships by ‘reporting’ me to businesses which I have a relationship with. On some level it’s comical. I believe that you have prior concerns with ‘ intentional interference with business,’ so it puzzles me why you continue to do the same here. I mean, man, it really puzzles me since this trip around the block would then be punitive in nature, no?

Despite what you think, I owe you no explanation for this. I am doing so to counteract your slander and advise you that the information you are spreading is untrue and give you an opportunity to retract it.

In another matter and so that this doesn’t rear its head again, I recently acquired a license to produce Robotech figures. So when you see them come out, please don’t recreate yet another false and slanderous article.

You have stated on more than one occasion that you wished to have the thread reflect accuracy.

Now that you have been made aware of these facts, i respectfully ask you to remove this 'bootleg' thread and all parts related as the information is both INACCURATE, SLANDEROUS, and detrimental to my character and business.

PS, Yes, i am sure that there are a number of grammatical errors here so the grammar police have me there.

Oh and QUICK! Someone should grab the whole quote!!!

[opcode]

Robb, Once again you have falsely slandered my name.

 

In this latest attempt you suggest that i sell bootleg toys.

 

These accusations are unfounded and unresearched.

 

Had you done proper research, you would have found that Hasbro had addressed this concern a number of years back. Hasbro made the statement that they actually ENCOURAGE customization of the GIJOE line. They provided a statement that customizations MAY be created and SOLD provided they are loose and unpackaged. MUCH THE SAME WAY that COLECO encourages independent developers and creation of games on the ColecoVision. We have stated this a NUMBER of times.

 

HASBRO further clarifies that product art and packaging cannot be reproduced without permission. THIS IS WHAT WE ARE SAYING TOO. You can make games for play on the Colecovision, BUT you cannot use the TM’s on the packaging without permission and you cannot make packaging that is confusing to the original. What is more is that we have offered to make the process painless by offering a style guide with the communities input.

 

When Hasbro made this statement many moons ago, it was an amazing time and collectors were happy. Coleco, who has the SAME stance is bullied excessively online.

 

 

Seriously?! I couldn't care less about your action figure dealings, but let me see if I undestand your instance on this matter.

 

Hasbro encourages customization because that means they will sell more of the figures THEY produce, and they don't ask money for that because they already made money by selling the figures in the first place.

 

Coleco doesn't produce anything and then "encourage" homebrewers to use the logo as long as Coleco can have the game at cost and make money out of it, while the developer sells fewer copies since some people are now buying from Coleco

 

And you say this is much the same thing? Suggestion: why don't you just get your brand and go have fun with the true fans?

[TPR]

Chris -

 

This is all great information and if our questioning of what we found online turns out to be inaccurate then I apologize. We will continue to do our research keeping the information you have presented in mind.

 

That being said, this is not the issue here. Let's not forget that my page still has many trademark strikes on it made by Coleco.

 

You claim that Coleco has said many times that they encourage homebrewers to make games for the system, but you made trademark claims on 63 games totally out of the blue.

 

None of those games have anything to do with "ColecoVision Fan" yet you attacked our page erroneously and when we presented factual information to you, even proof from several Homebrew developers that we are not associated with those games, you still refuse to retract those claims.

 

If you really encourage homebrewers to make games for the system, even to the point of making a Coleco casing, provided they don't use the trademarks on any packaging, why didn't you just come out and say so? And why didn't you take that up with the publishers themselves instead of a fan page?

 

That is the real issue here. You can try to deflect this as much as you want with your GI Joe discussion, but the real issues are still outstanding, have affected many fan groups, homebrewers, and publishers, yet you offer no apology or seem to be willing to address it.

 

You ask for these GI Joe posts to be removed, which are NOT "slanderous" in any way as we are simply asking questions about what we have found online, yet at the same time you will not retract your erroneous claims against the ColecoVision Homebrew and fan community.

 

How is that fair?

[enoofu]

 

 

HASBRO further clarifies that product art and packaging cannot be reproduced without permission

Believe that the main issue people had with those toys as they seem to be copies, personally I don't get the point of reporting the issue to ebay, and if they were that angry they should of reported it to Hasbro directly

"acquired a license to produce Robotech figures"

Got to be careful as Harmony doesn't have full IP rights worldwide for toys and Bandi is sue happy plus you don't know how Battletech, Macross and Transformers fans get rallied up

http://kotaku.com/5990702/why-you-havent-seen-any-new-macross-in-the-west-for-nearly-15-years

Edited June 4, 2017 by enoofu

[Flojomojo]

1. "Falsely slandered" = not slandered. Which I think is true.

 

2. I'd love to see the info about Hasbro's stance towards homebrew from a less biased source, like Hasbro themselves. Do they have a public statement we can read?

 

3. Cardillo, are you going to retract that copyright strike or what? Seems to me you could end this whenever you like if you chose to do so.

[cardo1]

Perhaps we can work this out in a meeting.

Why don't i send you a plane ticket and you can fly up here and we can sit down across from each other and work through your concerns and our concerns. In the meeting we can discuss a plan moving forward.

[TPR]

Perhaps we can work this out in a meeting.

Why don't i send you a plane ticket and you can fly up here and we can sit down across from each other and work through your concerns and our concerns. In the meeting we can discuss a plan moving forward.

I prefer to have everything documented in text. And I've been open to having Coleco work things out from day one. It was Coleco that refused to do that.

 

Oh, and Cardillo, if I hear from one more person that you are telling them I have a "criminal record" you won't need to meet with me you'll need to meet with someone who is more than my "representative."

 

Are we clear on that one? Good.

[+eebuckeye]

If he deals with Fred juice at all it is hard to take him seriously and certainly does not care about 'true fans'.

[DuggerVideoGames]

Perhaps we can work this out in a meeting.

Why don't i send you a plane ticket and you can fly up here and we can sit down across from each other and work through your concerns and our concerns. In the meeting we can discuss a plan moving forward.

Robb already spoke for himself in response to this, but I found your suggestion entirely laughable. WHAT CONCERNS? There are no so-called "concerns" to discuss or work through; it's pretty friggin' straightforward: you falsely accused the fan page of things they weren't involved in. Once again, you demonstrate that you only care about control; you think you can control everything by having a little secret closed-doors meeting where you and your posse can try to outnumber and intimidate people and create a he-said/he-said environment. BULL. If you care one iota about the community at all, then here's your chance to deal with it openly and retract those false claims against the fan page! I already have a good idea you won't do the right thing, however...

 

Furthermore, whatever concerns YOU have: take them up with the parties responsible.

Edited June 4, 2017 by DuggerVideoGames

[cardo1]

 

Oh, and Cardillo, if I hear from one more person that you are telling them I have a "criminal record" you won't need to meet with me you'll need to meet with someone who is more than my "representative."

 

 

 

More than your representative? Sounds like a physical threat to me. Feel free to elaborate as to what this representative would be meeting with me for.

[+grips03]

Can someone explain how the "new" Coleco company published any game? What is this 15 years thing?

 

Can someone explain how Coleco who does not own any game or any code "work" with AtGame to make the Flashback. How did either one of these companies get rights to the older Colecovision games?

 

How can the new Coleco claim to own the rights to the 80's Coleco cartridge shells when they never designed them or made a single game in them?

[+Tarzilla]

1. "Falsely slandered" not slandered. Which I think is true.

2. I'd love to see the info about Hasbro's stance towards homebrew from a less biased source, like Hasbro themselves. Do they have a public statement we can read?

3. Cardillo, are you going to retract that copyright strike or what? Seems to me you could end this whenever you like if you chose to do so.

There is a difference between customizing figures purchased from Hasbo (which they support, whether bought from distributors or not, since Hasbro is still moving product,) and producing figures using old or copied Hasbro molds.

[Flojomojo]

More than your representative? Sounds like a physical threat to me. Feel free to elaborate as to what this representative would be meeting with me for.

He means a lawyer, obviously.

 

If you had a case to make, you'd be doing the same. But you don't.

[cardo1]

He means a lawyer, obviously.

 

If you had a case to make, you'd be doing the same. But you don't.

It says "MORE THAN" his rep ---

[DuggerVideoGames]

It says "MORE THAN" his rep ---

With how much bull you've been slinging throughout this topic and how you botched interactions with the community, I don't think you're qualified to interpret anything and be taken seriously. Also, quit deflecting and answer the real questions. Oh, that's right: you refuse to do so because you're an immature pissant who refuses to address the real issues.

[cardo1]

I offered a site down in an office environment, which he could walk away with a paper memorializing what we speak about. Clearly the offer was there to resolve his concerns. I am just asking the man to clarify what he meant by his statement that i would meet with someone 'more than his representative.' And what this person would meet with me about.

[DuggerVideoGames]

I offered a site down in an office environment, which he could walk away with a paper memorializing what we speak about. Clearly the offer was there to resolve his concerns. I am just asking the man to clarify what he meant by his statement that i would meet with someone 'more than his representative.' And what this person would meet with me about.

No. What you offered was a closed environment where nobody can ascertain what understandings/agreements you and he may or may not have, because it's off-the-record. As I already stated before, there is no reason for him to have any meeting with you because it's pretty straightforward: you made false claims against the fan page. All you have to do is retract the false claims against the fan page and take up your issues with the responsible parties. I cannot make it any clearer than that; the fact that your mind cannot comprehend something so simple is PATHETIC. For a so-called businessman, you're sorely lacking in simple comprehension. You also have a pathetic inability to admit when you're wrong about something; you merely just deflect as much as you can to avoid issues. Any sane employer would not want a person like that working for them.

[+eebuckeye]

So the simplest thing is to not use the logo and move on... Coleco gets no free advertising with homebrew games and can't claim trademark concerns.

[DuggerVideoGames]

So the simplest thing is to not use the logo and move on... Coleco gets no free advertising with homebrew games and can't claim trademark concerns.

Everybody else already has moved on and the people who made the games said they won't use the logo from this point forward. The person who hasn't moved on is Cardillo and Coleco Holdings because they refuse to retract their false claims against the fan page (which has wrongful trademark strikes against them).