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CollectorVision Phoenix Game Console

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I hear this is only 480p now? Honestly for $200 I'd want at least 720p minimum. Please try and hit 720p if possible.

 

Not asking to be snarky, but... why? The vertical resolution of the picture is only 192 pixels, no matter what the output resolution is. 480p is a standard and supported resolution by modern devices.

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Bmack... also be aware that when the F18a is set to display 32 sprites with no sprite flicker, there are sprite display issues. For instance, in Antarctic Adventure when the penguin falls into a crevace, his whole body is still visible instead of the lower half being concealed.

 

So there will have to be a means to switch between normal 4 sprites per row and 32 sprites per row display. The F18a handles thus with a jumper on the board but you'll probably have to offer a software option.

 

I have seen some sprite issues over the years with RGB mods as well unless they were just a video recording issue.

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Not asking to be snarky, but... why? The vertical resolution of the picture is only 192 pixels, no matter what the output resolution is. 480p is a standard and supported resolution by modern devices.

The old "I want to have my cake and eat it too" complex. Overkill as you have described.
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Bmack... also be aware that when the F18a is set to display 32 sprites with no sprite flicker, there are sprite display issues. For instance, in Antarctic Adventure when the penguin falls into a crevace, his whole body is still visible instead of the lower half being concealed.

 

So there will have to be a means to switch between normal 4 sprites per row and 32 sprites per row display. The F18a handles thus with a jumper on the board but you'll probably have to offer a software option.

 

I have seen some sprite issues over the years with RGB mods as well unless they were just a video recording issue.

Thanks NIAD. We are aware and will have a way to turn it off.

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That would only be relevant if you were playing hd movies or something like that. The colecovision resolution is only 256 x192 down. 480 p is more than twice that. It'll display nice square pixels.

 

 

I hear this is only 480p now? Honestly for $200 I'd want at least 720p minimum. Please try and hit 720p if possible.

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Bmack... also be aware that when the F18a is set to display 32 sprites with no sprite flicker, there are sprite display issues. For instance, in Antarctic Adventure when the penguin falls into a crevace, his whole body is still visible instead of the lower half being concealed.

 

So there will have to be a means to switch between normal 4 sprites per row and 32 sprites per row display. The F18a handles thus with a jumper on the board but you'll probably have to offer a software option.

 

I have seen some sprite issues over the years with RGB mods as well unless they were just a video recording issue.

Beat you too it :-D

Edited by Ikrananka

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That would only be relevant if you were playing hd movies or something like that. The colecovision resolution is only 256 x192 down. 480 p is more than twice that. It'll display nice square pixels.

 

 

The problem with 480p is its not a integer scale to 4K like 720p and 1080p are.

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The old "I want to have my cake and eat it too" complex. Overkill as you have described.

Ummm, no. Its just that RetroUSB and Analogue set a standard for $200 FPGA systems. 1080p and 4K displays can usually handle 720p better than 480p.

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Hopefully they can get that to work. For the price I'd want a true HD solution.

 

How does it feel to "want?"

 

Seriously, I really do not understand why so many people either want this system to be something that it is not or something that it cannot do.

 

Please, listen up and listen VERY CAREFULLY...

 

THIS IS GOING TO BE A NEW COLECOVISION THAT WILL REPLACE ALL THAT OLD AND DYING HARDWARE AND WILL CONNECT VIA HDMI USING ALL YOUR CLASSIC AND NEW HOMEBREW CARTRIDGES AND CONTROLLERS!

 

Why do so many people need this system to be anything else but that? I don't understand...

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I agree. ColecoVisions (as well as many other consoles) are slowly dying off, so the fact that this system is coming into fruition is an absolute win-win for everyone.

 

How does it feel to "want?"

 

Seriously, I really do not understand why so many people either want this system to be something that it is not or something that it cannot do.

 

Please, listen up and listen VERY CAREFULLY...

 

THIS IS GOING TO BE A NEW COLECOVISION THAT WILL REPLACE ALL THAT OLD AND DYING HARDWARE AND WILL CONNECT VIA HDMI USING ALL YOUR CLASSIC AND NEW HOMEBREW CARTRIDGES AND CONTROLLERS!

 

Why do so many people need this system to be anything else but that? I don't understand...

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How does it feel to "want?"

 

Seriously, I really do not understand why so many people either want this system to be something that it is not or something that it cannot do.

 

Please, listen up and listen VERY CAREFULLY...

 

Why do so many people need this system to be anything else but that? I don't understand...

Perhaps maybe because I'm pretty sure they originally stated this system would be 720p. So its kinda of a let down that there was a downgrade in resolutions.

 

Also, all that large lettering was unnecessary and comes off as aggressive. There was no need for that just because I expect a $200 FPGA system to at least offer 720p. $200 is not exactly cheap.

 

I'm not saying I'm not on board anymore, just dissapointed.

 

Edit: Yes, I was right. I did some research and they did intially referred to this as an HD system. 480p is not HD. So, no need to get defensive about the system because I'm bummed about it lacking a feature they originally said it would have (i.e. HD resolution).

Edited by SegaSnatcher

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I am for the highest native resolution possible. At this time the CollectorVision game system for the ColecoVision part of the project well have a 640 X 480i or 640 x 480P resolution with a screen ratio of 4:3. That is based on the F18a technology that is a little lower then true 720 x 480i and 720 x 480P.

 

The original unmodified NTSC ColecoVision/ADAM only has a 256 x 192 interfaced resolution. Many people well be happy if they get native 640 x 480i/p from the new ColecoVision section of the CollectorVision.

 

Now if someone wants to create a ColecoVision II BIOS with native 10K or native 8K (7680 x 4320) resolution over HDMI 2.1 then I am all for that. There is a big difference between native resolution and simulated upscale resolution quality. For example 100% of all store purchased DVD’s have a native resolution of 720 x 480 interfaced. If one goes and purchases one of the new 8K flat panel TV’s with a native resolution of 7680 x 4320, what is going to happen is the 480i DVD source material is going to be upscaled to simulated 7680 x 4320 quality by the TV’s upscale chips. In fact there is evidence that a native 720 x 480i TV well offer a better picture quality when playing 480i DVD discs since there are digital artifacts created when upscaling. Now playing a native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray disc with 3840 x 2160P well look a lot better on a 4K and 8K display versus a 480i DVD disc.

 

My point is native resolution is a lot more important when compared to simulated upscale resolution. One can take a 240i VHS tape and upscale it to 8K, but the VHS tape still going to look worse when compared to a DVD.

 

What is more important is what the native graphics chip in the CollectorVision system is capable of. In the future it would be neat for a software engineer to make a ColecoVision II BIOS that outputted true 1920 x 1080P or 1280 x 720P with 16:9 screen ratio for special new native 720P or 1080P games.

 

What I really want in this CollectorVision system is to have a native 640 x 480i/p mode for ColecoVision games since that is what I would use when connected to my 4K Ultra HD Desktop computer monitor. I well let the display do the upscaling to the displays native resolution. Therefore, if the CollectorVision system does offer upscaling to 720P or 1080P, I hope there is a way to disable the upscaling for those consumers that well be using external upscaling in their display or A/V receiver.

The marketing department for the CollectorVision system could label the system as 720P upscaling if none of the game cores offer native 720P.

Edited by HDTV1080P

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I am for the highest native resolution possible. At this time the CollectorVision game system for the ColecoVision part of the project well have a 640 X 480i or 640 x 480P resolution with a screen ratio of 4:3. That is based on the F18a technology that is a little lower then true 720 x 480i and 720 x 480P.

 

The original unmodified NTSC ColecoVision/ADAM only has a 256 x 192 interfaced resolution. Many people well be happy if they get native 640 x 480i/p from the new ColecoVision section of the CollectorVision.

 

Now if someone wants to create a ColecoVision II BIOS with native 10K or native 8K (7680 x 4320) resolution over HDMI 2.1 then I am all for that. There is a big difference between native resolution and simulated upscale resolution quality. For example 100% of all store purchased DVD’s have a native resolution of 720 x 480 interfaced. If one goes and purchases one of the new 8K flat panel TV’s with a native resolution of 7680 x 4320, what is going to happen is the 480i DVD source material is going to be upscaled to simulated 7680 x 4320 quality by the TV’s upscale chips. In fact there is evidence that a native 720 x 480i TV well offer a better picture quality when playing 480i DVD discs since there are digital artifacts created when upscaling. Now playing a native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray disc with 3840 x 2160P well look a lot better on a 4K and 8K display versus a 480i DVD disc.

 

My point is native resolution is a lot more important when compared to simulated upscale resolution. One can take a 240i VHS tape and upscale it to 8K, but the VHS tape still going to look worse when compared to a DVD.

 

What is more important is what the native graphics chip in the CollectorVision system is capable of. In the future it would be neat for a software engineer to make a ColecoVision II BIOS that outputted true 1920 x 1080P or 1280 x 720P with 16:9 screen ratio for special new native 720P or 1080P games.

 

What I really want in this CollectorVision system is to have a native 640 x 480i/p mode for ColecoVision games since that is what I would use when connected to my 4K Ultra HD Desktop computer monitor. I well let the display do the upscaling to the displays native resolution. Therefore, if the CollectorVision system does offer upscaling to 720P or 1080P, I hope there is a way to disable the upscaling for those consumers that well be using external upscaling in their display or A/V receiver.

The marketing department for the CollectorVision system could label the system as 720P upscaling if none of the game cores offer native 720P.

An FPGA scaling to a higher resolution is going to do a better job than your HDTV, that I can guarantee. Why you'd want your HDTV to scale the image over the FPGA system makes zero sense. All one needs to do is use the 480p or 720p modes on a Super NT on their 1080p/4K sets and see how much softer it is vs enabling 1080p mode on the SNT. Lastly, you definitely don't want a native 480i signal unless you were hooking up to a CRT, but given this is HDMI only that would look horrible on a 4K display. Most HDTVs can't properly deinterlace images without ugly artifacts being introduced.

Edited by SegaSnatcher

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An FPGA scaling to a higher resolution is going to do a better job than your HDTV, that I can guarantee. Why you'd want your HDTV to scale the image over the FPGA system makes zero sense. All one needs to do is use the 480p or 720p modes on a Super NT on their 1080p/4K sets and see how much softer it is vs enabling 1080p mode on the SNT. Lastly, you definitely don't want a native 480i signal unless you were hooking up to a CRT, but given this is HDMI only that would look horrible on a 4K display. Most HDTVs can't properly deinterlace images without ugly artifacts being introduced.

There are some really nice 4K Ultra HD OLED displays and some 4K Ultra HD desktop computer monitors that have high quality upscaling chips that make 480i and 480P signals over HDMI look really good.

 

Its better quality to have one upscale device involved instead of two upscale devices. Why use 720P or 1080p upscaling in the CollectorVision system if one is going to have their 4K display also do the upscaling. Better upscaling quality can occur if the native 480 signal is upscaled to 4K by one device (either the TV or the videogame system). Some TV's well have better upscaling chips when compared to some videogame systems. Which every system has the better upscaling technology should be used.

 

4K Ultra HD upscaling chips are very inexpensive, and perhaps the CollectorVision system might want to use 4K Ultra HD upscaling. I well be happy if a native source direct feature is offered for all the game cores. Which would be 640 x 480 for the ColecoVision core. I would be really surprised if this CollectorVision system was to launch without at least 720P or higher upscaling to make people happy.

Edited by HDTV1080P

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There are some really nice 4K Ultra HD OLED displays and some 4K Ultra HD desktop computer monitors that have high quality upscaling chips that make 480i and 480P signals over HDMI look really good.

 

Its better quality to have one upscale device involved instead of two upscale devices. Why use 720P or 1080p upscaling in the CollectorVision system if one is going to have their 4K display also do the upscaling. Better upscaling quality can occur if the native 480 signal is upscaled to 4K by one device (either the TV or the videogame system). Some TV's well have better upscaling chips when compared to some videogame systems. Which every system has the better upscaling technology should be used.

 

4K Ultra HD upscaling chips are very inexpensive, and perhaps the CollectorVision system might want to use 4K Ultra HD upscaling. I well be happy if a native source direct feature is offered for all the game cores. Which would be 640 x 480 for the ColecoVision core. I would be really surprised if this CollectorVision system was to launch without at least 720P or higher upscaling to make people happy.

Because its not the same type of upscaling between the two devices. I don't think you understand why doing it within the FPGA itself will do a better job. Also, 720p and 1080p is a muliple of 4K so your 4K will add less blurring to the image. Its really that simple. What you want is for your TV to do as little scaling as possible. Again, we have the Analogue Mini and Super NT to prove this. 1080p will look noticeablly sharper than having your TV upscale a 480p image.

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Because its not the same type of upscaling between the two devices. I don't think you understand why doing it within the FPGA itself will do a better job. Also, 720p and 1080p is a muliple of 4K so your 4K will add less blurring to the image. Its really that simple. What you want is for your TV to do as little scaling as possible. Again, we have the Analogue Mini and Super NT to prove this. 1080p will look noticeablly sharper than having your TV upscale a 480p image.

If the TV set is a very low cost and poor quality TV set, then yes I agree the CollectorVision system should offer better quality upscaling from 480 to 720P. However if the TV is several thousands of dollars and uses state of the art upscaling chips then it well do a much better job upscaling FPGA 480 signals to 720P, 1080P, 4K, 8K, and 10K.

 

All I am suggesting is that along with 720P and 1080P upscaling in the CollectorVision, that a native 480 mode be included in the setup menu for those consumers that choose to use some type of external upscaling device.

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If the TV set is a very low cost and poor quality TV set, then yes I agree the CollectorVision system should offer better quality upscaling from 480 to 720P. However if the TV is several thousands of dollars and uses state of the art upscaling chips then it well do a much better job upscaling FPGA 480 signals to 720P, 1080P, 4K, 8K, and 10K.

 

All I am suggesting is that along with 720P and 1080P upscaling in the CollectorVision, that a native 480 mode be included in the setup menu for those consumers that choose to use some type of external upscaling device.

Technically the internal 480p mode would be an upscale too for standard Coleco games since they were programmed in 192 resolution. Only newer games designed with 480p in mind would technically be a true native res from the source, but even then they'd still benefit from the FPGA doing the upscaling over your TV. We can go back and forth and never agreeing, but I can show evidence of this being the case, can you?

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Perhaps maybe because I'm pretty sure they originally stated this system would be 720p. So its kinda of a let down that there was a downgrade in resolutions.

 

Also, all that large lettering was unnecessary and comes off as aggressive. There was no need for that just because I expect a $200 FPGA system to at least offer 720p. $200 is not exactly cheap.

 

I'm not saying I'm not on board anymore, just dissapointed.

 

Edit: Yes, I was right. I did some research and they did intially referred to this as an HD system. 480p is not HD. So, no need to get defensive about the system because I'm bummed about it lacking a feature they originally said it would have (i.e. HD resolution).

 

Then don't buy the system and stop your stupid complaining.

 

There.

 

Problem solved.

 

$200 is not exactly cheap.

 

And trying to find a really solid, good condition ColecoVision and then installing and F18A mod with a decent HDMI converter and buying a Super Game Module on top of it is?

 

Again, I just don't get it. There literally should be NO COMPLAINING or disappointment at all about this project. And if you are disappointed that a brand new ColecoVision compatible system is coming out in 2018 then you really don't belong here.

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Technically the internal 480p mode would be an upscale too for standard Coleco games since they were programmed in 192 resolution. Only newer games designed with 480p in mind would technically be a true native res from the source, but even then they'd still benefit from the FPGA doing the upscaling over your TV. We can go back and forth and never agreeing, but I can show evidence of this being the case, can you?

Yes new games could be created to take full advantage of 640 x 480P that the F18a offers but then the games might not be backward compatible with existing ColecoVisions. It is totally false that the FPGA has better upscaling from 480P to 720P when compared to high end TV sets or Blu-ray players. Once the signal is 480P a high end external scaler well offer much better quality then FPGA. This can be proved by setting up two identical displays and using test patterns.

Edited by HDTV1080P

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Then don't buy the system and stop your stupid complaining.

 

There.

 

Problem solved.

 

 

And trying to find a really solid, good condition ColecoVision and then installing and F18A mod with a decent HDMI converter and buying a Super Game Module on top of it is?

 

Again, I just don't get it. There literally should be NO COMPLAINING or disappointment at all about this project. And if you are disappointed that a brand new ColecoVision compatible system is coming out in 2018 then you really don't belong here.

Again, why the attitude? Just yesterday the main guy behind the project talked to me on Discord and he was willing to take my constructive criticism into consideration. He even said he'll talk to the guy working on the video portion to see if he can make 720p possible, at least for standard Colecovision games. You need to stop aggressively defending a project that you aren't even involved in. Your standards are simply lower than mine and that is your right, but don't get defensive towards me because I expect certain features from a $200 FPGA console given what has come before. You can thank people like me willing to ask for more if 720p gets implemented. You're welcome.

Edited by SegaSnatcher

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You can thank people like me willing to ask for more if 720p gets implemented. You're welcome.

 

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I will also thank people just like you when certain developers stop projects they are working on because of ungrateful people like yourself. Which happens all too often. I can only continue to THANK Brian and JF for continuing this project when I know there have been plenty of rolling eyes at many of the complaints and comments that have been made.

 

You simply have NO IDEA what has been done already to date to bring this to project to life. NO IDEA!

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I will also thank people just like you when certain developers stop projects they are working on because of ungrateful people like yourself. Which happens all too often. I can only continue to THANK Brian and JF for continuing this project when I know there have been plenty of rolling eyes at many of the complaints and comments that have been made.

 

You simply have NO IDEA what has been done already to date to bring this to project to life. NO IDEA!

Expecting 720p minimum for a $200 FPGA is totally a reasonable expectation and even BMack36 understands this. I am not being ungrateful. I as a customer of other FPGA consoles now have certain expectations/standards. If you can't understand this then thats your personal issue you need to figure out. I in no way shape or form am not appreciating their hard work. I know what they are trying to accomplish isn't easy, but neither was the AVS from Bunnyboy or all the projects Kevtris designed. Again, Bunnyboy and Kevtris have set the standards for FPGA systems and I think other companies in that field need to follow or exceed them, especially if they are charging a similar price. If this was a fair bit cheaper than say the AVS then you might have a point, but its actually more expensive.

 

BMack36 and I had a pleasant conversation yesterday on Discord about this, so no need for the hostility. BMack is not offended, so neither should you be.

Edited by SegaSnatcher
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Expecting 720p minimum for a $200 FPGA is totally a reasonable expectation and even BMack36 understands this. I am not being ungrateful. I as a customer of other FPGA consoles now have certain expectations/standards. If you can't understand this then thats your personal issue you need to figure out. I in no way shape or form am not appreciating their hard work. I know what they are trying to accomplish isn't easy, but neither was the AVS from Bunnyboy or all the projects Kevtris designed. Again, Bunnyboy and Kevtris have set the standards for FPGA systems and I think other companies in that field need to follow or exceed them, especially if they are charging a similar price.

 

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