UAV - Ultimate Atari Video - Atari 7800

[DJ Clae]

I remember people squabbling over the color of the ground in Contra. To me it was like, "OMG they all look the same!" So of course I haven't bothered flashing my NESRGB board with the new palette and I'm very happy.

[CPUWIZ]

I didn't read any of the 8bit forum threads about this mod, but has anyone noticed the drone (UAV) image on the PCB?

[+DrVenkman]

I didn't read any of the 8bit forum threads about this mod, but has anyone noticed the drone (UAV) image on the PCB?

 

D'oh! I've got four of these things, currently installed in 3 different machines, and I've never realized that was more than just some stylized logo from the PCB manufacturer, lol!

[+-^CrossBow^-]

 

D'oh! I've got four of these things, currently installed in 3 different machines, and I've never realized that was more than just some stylized logo from the PCB manufacturer, lol!

I even mentioned it in my video LOL! I stated it didn't stand for unmanned aerial vehicle or anything to do with drones. I believe that is a Predator shown on the PCB which, is used in US armed forces.

[CPUWIZ]

Shows how many youtube videos I click on. LOL

[+DrVenkman]

 

 

I even mentioned it in my video LOL!

 

Yeah, I didn't watch the video. I know generally how to install the UAV so I just grabbed the PDF for reference for when I get around to doing one on one of my 7800's.

 

Also, I've been watching flashjazzcat's channel a lot lately watching him pull his hair out (metaphorically) trying to get a Rapidus, an Ultimate 1MB board, a stereo pokey/Uswitch board setup and a VBXE all installed and stable in an 800XL. That was fun - and I'm glad it wasn't me trying to make them all play nice together.

[Dauber]

So....how does one get one of these mods to install????

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Send a PM to AA member Bryan

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Had meant to update this thread with pics from some other games.

 

I recently modded another 7800 for a member here using Bryan's UAV rev D board. And the results this time around I think came out better than on my own 7800. At the least it just tells me that my 7800 just has off colors for some odd reason. Keep in mind that my camera adds a moire pattern to these whenever I take pics off my LED. Not sure why and I've not found a good way to really prevent it, so any interference like patterns you see and washed out colors are NOT how it looks in actuality.

Anyway, here they are and all are from the S-Video output from the UAV.

 

Dark Chambers title screen -Colors are much better on this 7800 as opposed to mine and the earlier pic I took. I also didn't notice the flashlight effect when taking this as is shown here in the corners. Must have been the angle the camera was at.

 

 

Game play screen shot from TEP's DK XM. This is actually quite an accurate shot of what I see on my LED in regards to colors.

 

 

Ms. Pac-Man game play. Someone had mentioned the dots with a ghost effect or something? Not really sure, but on an LED they do appear to be a shade of light blue instead of white as they appear on a CRT normally. Also Cylde doesn't look like that in actuality. Again, some odd thing with my Nikon and the way it picks up colors on the LED. Clyde is totally orange and not a checker pattern that this shows.

 

 

Here is a zoomed in shot from my camera of the Rampage title screen. Again, the greenish lines across the title words aren't actually there and is a result of my camera apparently. But I mainly did this to show detail in the overall picture and color.

 

 

[Trebor]

...I recently modded another 7800 for a member here using Bryan's UAV rev D board. And the results this time around I think came out better than on my own 7800. At the least it just tells me that my 7800 just has off colors for some odd reason....

 

 

Short Answer:

The color pot of your console was tuned after it was already warmed up.

The other (just modded) console's color pot was tuned within a minute or two of running from a cold state.

 

Long Answer:

 

The title screen of Dark Chambers utilizes Hue $Fx range for colors (Specifically the title uses $F3 and $F6). This is unlike Commando which relies on Hue $1x.

 

Hue $1x is directly impacted by the tint/hue setting of the display. It never changes with system warm-up. It is also not fazed by changes to the color pot inside the console.

 

Hue $Fx while also impacted by the tint/hue setting of the display, is greatly impacted by system warm-up and the color pot setting within the console.

 

Many consoles, after a system completely warms up, usually ends up with Hue $Fx range looking just like the Hue $2x range and $Ex range looking just like Hue $1x range (~27.7 degrees separation among the hues).

 

Ideally, $Fx should wind up falling between the hue shades of $1x and $2x (~26.7 degrees separation among the hues), which provisions a full 256 color palette.

 

The Factory setting adjustment to the color pot where $Fx is tuned to match $1x (~25.7 degrees separation between the hues) should typically be set within the first minute or two a console is turned on - while in a 'colder' state.

 

The presumed difference that may be experienced between your console and the recent mod performed is your console had its color pot adjusted after the system was already warm or hot (Running for 5 minutes or more).

 

The difference from waiting for a longer period of time to adjust the color pot setting, is the console "warms up" to 25.7 degrees, instead of starting out 'cooler' at that setting. Which means then, its "cooler" degree separation is more in the ~24 degree range.

 

On a modern display, the impact to $Fx is the console goes from a really strong cold green to the warmer green/chartreuse look of Hue $1x and remain there as it was factory tune to ~25.7 degrees after it was already warmed up. On a CRT, this is not as big of a deal as Hue $1x is already in the brown family (Gold).

 

Nonetheless, if that same console is color calibrated much sooner when the console is cooler, within the aforementioned minute or two of system being turned on from a cold state, then Hue $Fx will start off matching the green/chartreuse lean of Hue $1x on a modern display, but as it warms up the greenish lean seen for Hue $Fx becomes tan/brown/orange with the increase of degrees of hue separation (Somewhere within that ~26.7 degrees and ~27.7 degrees range).

 

Hue $1x will still be too green on most (all?) modern displays at default settings, but for most consoles, the Hue $Fx range, as seen in Dark Chambers, will be close to, if not matching, the Hue $2x range, which always appears either in the brown/tan or orange range regardless of display type and its respective hue setting.

 

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

 

Short Answer:

The color pot of your console was tuned after it was already warmed up.

The other (just modded) console's color pot was tuned within a minute or two of running from a cold state.

 

Long Answer:

 

The title screen of Dark Chambers utilizes Hue $Fx range for colors (Specifically the title uses $F3 and $F6). This is unlike Commando which relies on Hue $1x.

 

Hue $1x is directly impacted by the tint/hue setting of the display. It never changes with system warm-up. It is also not fazed by changes to the color pot inside the console.

 

Hue $Fx while also impacted by the tint/hue setting of the display, is greatly impacted by system warm-up and the color pot setting within the console.

 

Many consoles, after a system completely warms up, usually ends up with Hue $Fx range looking just like the Hue $2x range and $Ex range looking just like Hue $1x range (~27.7 degrees separation among the hues).

 

Ideally, $Fx should wind up falling between the hue shades of $1x and $2x (~26.7 degrees separation among the hues), which provisions a full 256 color palette.

 

The Factory setting adjustment to the color pot where $Fx is tuned to match $1x (~25.7 degrees separation between the hues) should typically be set within the first minute or two a console is turned on - while in a 'colder' state.

 

The presumed difference that may be experienced between your console and the recent mod performed is your console had its color pot adjusted after the system was already warm or hot (Running for 5 minutes or more).

 

The difference from waiting for a longer period of time to adjust the color pot setting, is the console "warms up" to 25.7 degrees, instead of starting out 'cooler' at that setting. Which means then, its "cooler" degree separation is more in the ~24 degree range.

 

On a modern display, the impact to $Fx is the console goes from a really strong cold green to the warmer green/chartreuse look of Hue $1x and remain there as it was factory tune to ~25.7 degrees after it was already warmed up. On a CRT, this is not as big of a deal as Hue $1x is already in the brown family (Gold).

 

Nonetheless, if that same console is color calibrated much sooner when the console is cooler, within the aforementioned minute or two of system being turned on from a cold state, then Hue $Fx will start off matching the green/chartreuse lean of Hue $1x on a modern display, but as it warms up the greenish lean seen for Hue $Fx becomes tan/brown/orange with the increase of degrees of hue separation (Somewhere within that ~26.7 degrees and ~27.7 degrees range).

 

Hue $1x will still be too green on most (all?) modern displays at default settings, but for most consoles, the Hue $Fx range, as seen in Dark Chambers, will be close to, if not matching, the Hue $2x range, which always appears either in the brown/tan or orange range regardless of display type and its respective hue setting.

 

 

 

I didn't touch the color pots on this recent modded console. And these pics were taken after the console had been running for at least a good 30min if not longer originally with the Ms. Pac attract mode. Using the settings off this one, i was able to get my primary 7800 adjusted and looking better. But based on what you are stating, the adjustment I made and the colors of mine are more accurate?

[Trebor]

I didn't touch the color pots on this recent modded console. And these pics were taken after the console had been running for at least a good 30min if not longer originally with the Ms. Pac attract mode. Using the settings off this one, i was able to get my primary 7800 adjusted and looking better. But based on what you are stating, the adjustment I made and the colors of mine are more accurate?

Just the opposite

 

The short of it:

Tuning your console's color pot to behave more closely to the console you just modded provides end results that are seen for most other consoles.

 

Details:

Most consoles, like the one you just modded, after complete warm up, have a resulting phase shift of ~26.7-27.7 degrees which provides a brownish looking $Fx, as utilized with the Dark Chambers title screen, even under a modern display.

 

Your console - at least prior to the adjustment quoted above - was likely color tuned after the console warmed up, which would end up with a greenish looking Hue $Fx even after running for awhile. This is due to matching Hue $Fx to a greenish looking Hue $1x on modern display, with a resulting 'warmed-up' phase shift being ~25.7 degrees, instead of starting there.

 

Going back to the first page...

 

Right...usually the adjustment I make to the color is by connecting the 7800 to my PVM and then adjusting after warm up...

 

...it indeed appeared to be the case; your console was color adjusted after warm up.

 

By waiting to adjust the color, it results in a greenish $Fx range under a modern display even after warm up.

 

That's what was eluded to previously when stating: "If Hue $1x is displaying overly green or chartreuse, as shown in the OP, ultimately the end user may also set Hue $Fx incorrectly as well."

 

Individuals who do adjust their system's color pot after waiting for the console to warm up, and utilize a modern display, will run into the same results you experienced previously with your console.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Just the opposite

 

The short of it:

Tuning your console's color pot to behave more closely to the console you just modded provides end results that are seen for most other consoles.

 

Details:

Most consoles, like the one you just modded, after complete warm up, have a resulting phase shift of ~26.7-27.7 degrees which provides a brownish looking $Fx, as utilized with the Dark Chambers title screen, even under a modern display.

 

Your console - at least prior to the adjustment quoted above - was likely color tuned after the console warmed up, which would end up with a greenish looking Hue $Fx even after running for awhile. This is due to matching Hue $Fx to a greenish looking Hue $1x on modern display, with a resulting 'warmed-up' phase shift being ~25.7 degrees, instead of starting there.

 

Going back to the first page...

 

 

...it indeed appeared to be the case; your console was color adjusted after warm up.

 

By waiting to adjust the color, it results in a greenish $Fx range under a modern display even after warm up.

 

That's what was eluded to previously when stating: "If Hue $1x is displaying overly green or chartreuse, as shown in the OP, ultimately the end user may also set Hue $Fx incorrectly as well."

 

Individuals who do adjust their system's color pot after waiting for the console to warm up, and utilize a modern display, will run into the same results you experienced previously with your console.

 

Oh okay that makes way more sense. I was under the impression that it was better to adjust the color on the 7800 after a 10min warmup period? But that isn't the case and you should check and adjust it pretty much right after you power it on cold. It is worth noting that on a CRT everything looks correct of course, but even under default adjustements, the color match rectangles on the bottom of the diag utility test, still don't match up quite right with the right rectangle having a slight greener tint to it than the left. But we all know that flat panels just aren't going to produce the correct colors at this point. Or at least, they aren't going to produce the colors we expect and are used to seeing at this point.

[Bryan]

Hey, just posted an update about the sound board here:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/260267-the-uav-rev-d-video-upgrade-thread/?p=3796242

 

This will properly mix TIA and Pokey sound and provide a proper, buffered line-level output with no cutting on the board.

[mckafka99]

Had meant to update this thread with pics from some other games.

 

I recently modded another 7800 for a member here using Bryan's UAV rev D board. And the results this time around I think came out better than on my own 7800. At the least it just tells me that my 7800 just has off colors for some odd reason. Keep in mind that my camera adds a moire pattern to these whenever I take pics off my LED. Not sure why and I've not found a good way to really prevent it, so any interference like patterns you see and washed out colors are NOT how it looks in actuality.

Anyway, here they are and all are from the S-Video output from the UAV.

 

Dark Chambers title screen -Colors are much better on this 7800 as opposed to mine and the earlier pic I took. I also didn't notice the flashlight effect when taking this as is shown here in the corners. Must have been the angle the camera was at.

DC_UAV.png

 

 

Game play screen shot from TEP's DK XM. This is actually quite an accurate shot of what I see on my LED in regards to colors.

DK_XM_UAV.png

 

 

Ms. Pac-Man game play. Someone had mentioned the dots with a ghost effect or something? Not really sure, but on an LED they do appear to be a shade of light blue instead of white as they appear on a CRT normally. Also Cylde doesn't look like that in actuality. Again, some odd thing with my Nikon and the way it picks up colors on the LED. Clyde is totally orange and not a checker pattern that this shows.

Ms_Pac_man_UAV.png

 

 

Here is a zoomed in shot from my camera of the Rampage title screen. Again, the greenish lines across the title words aren't actually there and is a result of my camera apparently. But I mainly did this to show detail in the overall picture and color.

Rampage_UAV.png

 

 

 

Just wanted chime in here on this thread and mention that I believe that this may have been my 7800 being referenced and I am loving the new look and great job that -^Cro$Bow^- did on it. I have used my 7800 more in the last few weeks than I had in the last couple of years - the s-video on my HD CRT looks awesome! Thanks again to -^Cro$Bow^- for doing my mod and Bryan for making the board available. I had taken some pictures which I thought about posting but none of them do the actual image justice.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

 

Just wanted chime in here on this thread and mention that I believe that this may have been my 7800 being referenced and I am loving the new look and great job that -^Cro$Bow^- did on it. I have used my 7800 more in the last few weeks than I had in the last couple of years - the s-video on my HD CRT looks awesome! Thanks again to -^Cro$Bow^- for doing my mod and Bryan for making the board available. I had taken some pictures which I thought about posting but none of them do the actual image justice.

 

Thank you for your trust in me. I feel quite humbled to read this. But yes, none of the pics I've taken do the actual picture justice. And yes, it was indeed your 7800 those pics were taken from. Enjoy!

Edited July 1, 2017 by -^Cro§Bow^-

[CPUWIZ]

Hey, just posted an update about the sound board here:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/260267-the-uav-rev-d-video-upgrade-thread/?p=3796242

 

This will properly mix TIA and Pokey sound and provide a proper, buffered line-level output with no cutting on the board.

 

Can you please make that a little smaller, not sure where to put something that big inside the 7800?

[Bryan]

Can you please make that a little smaller, not sure where to put something that big inside the 7800?

I was tempted, but I hate soldering anything smaller than 0805. It's actually easy to work with since you solder it across a decoupling cap and it then stands up by itself.

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I was tempted, but I hate soldering anything smaller than 0805. It's actually easy to work with since you solder it across a decoupling cap and it then stands up by itself.

 

 

That looks excellent! Really like that clean look. I see a few unused solder pads on the board. What might those be for?

Edited July 1, 2017 by -^Cro§Bow^-

[Bryan]

That looks excellent! Really like that clean look. I see a few unused solder pads on the board. What might those be for?

Different mixing levels. For example, in the 400 I need to mix Pokey and SIO audio (like the audio track on a cassette) at different levels so I'm trying to cover all the bases with one device.

[CPUWIZ]

Love it.

[Trebor]

Holy crap that is tiny yet mighty...A 'Mighty Mouse' sound mixing board. Really impressive, Bryan...Fantastic job!

[+DrVenkman]

This looks great!

 

I've been planning to mod my spare 7800 with a Rev C UAV that used to live inside an 800XL (replaced by a Rev D). I think now I'm gonna hold off and wait until this audio board is available, then buy a new bare Rev D and one of these to go with it.

[mattsoft]

Nice job on the video -- thanks for this Cro§Bow! I finally picked up a 7800 (after not having one for 30 years) and am now planning to do this mod pending obtaining another UAV kit from Bryan. Nostalgia makes the terrible RF memories not seem so bad, but in reality, wow, RF is rough.

[IJoeG]

Finally added the UAV to my 7800 last night. It was a pretty easy install and the results were awesome. This is the third mod I've done. Best electronics and Longhorn mod being the first two. Best was good but I had ghosting, Longhorn was better but I had an issue with jail bars. This UAV mod has none of that, just solid blacks and crisp colors. I'm really enjoying my system right now, with the new games released from AA and the UAV Mod installed I couldn't be happier. Thanks Cro§Bow for putting this up and thank you Bryan for the UAV.

 

I should mention, I'm only using the composite on a LCD TV. No need for S video