UAV - Ultimate Atari Video - Atari 7800

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Yes I recall an earlier thread started by @blainelocklair where he noted the issue with ESB and his Tink setup and was asking if it was an issue with the UAV or something else. Does the Tink2x Pro resolve these issues? Again, the only game I've found so far (I've certainly not tested everything...), is Buck Rogers to really give me any issues on my AV setup. Game itself plays fine, but the title screen on my setup is a massive vertical scrolling mess.

[+MrZarniwoop]

I had extensive email discussions with RetroTINK about these issues with my 2X MINI after @-^CrossBow^- explained the issue to me. The screen-shake effect in some 2600 games by reducing the number of scan lines momentarily is the root cause. The composite input on some TVs are more forgiving because they buffer the signal and try to reconstruct around these errors but of course that adds lag and may degrade the (already worse than RetroTINK) picture quality.

 

Here’s what the Samsung TV I’m using displays for some games through my RetroTINK 2X-MINI:

 

Asteroids (Atari 2600): 720x480p@60p but is skipping enough frames to be unplayable. Straight composite (not using the RetroTINK 2X-MINI) shows is a slightly flickering screen, but plays perfectly.

Battlezone (Atari 2600): 720x479/60p at the title screen! Clearly skipping frames, unplayable through RetroTINK 2X-MINI as it’s continuously playing with scanlines as you move your tank to simulate rumbling during movement.. straight composite ok.

Buck Rogers (Atari 2600): 720x480@30HZ at title screen, but 720x480/60p for gameplay… everything displays and plays fine for me, but not for others with different equipment.

Moon Patrol (Atari 2600): 720x480/60p at the title screen and game play, but there’s a blank and resync on the TV when switching between the title screen and gameplay. Totally playable.

Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back (Atari 2600): 720x480/60p… but… when you destroy a walker (AT-AT) the screen stops and skips a few frames!

 

All Atari 7800 games, including Asteroids (Atari 7800) work flawlessly. None so far seem to play with dynamic scanline changes they way developers did with Atari 2600 games.

 

RetroTINK asked me to try the problem games with a 2X-Multiformat, which I will do in a few weeks.

[+DrVenkman]

36 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Does the Tink2x Pro resolve these issues?

No; see my post above, and that of @MrZarniwoop. I can confirm the issues with Empire and Battlezone (again, see my post this morning). I haven’t tested the other games mentioned (Asteroids, Buck Rogers, Moon Patrol) but have no reason to doubt his findings.

 

Similarly, some 5200 or A8 computer programs could well have issues because an ANTIC display list can have as many or as few scanlines as the programmer wants but anything out of NTSC will cause my (North American) TV’s to complain about an unsupported input resolution - again, the RetroTink is an excellent scaler but that’s what it is - a simple line-doubling scaler. It does not output a fixed 480p (NTSC) resolution, it merely doubles the lines input to it.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

5 minutes ago, MrZarniwoop said:

 

Buck Rogers (Atari 2600): 720x480@30HZ at title screen, but 720x480/60p for gameplay… everything displays and plays fine for me, but not for others with different equipment.

RetroTINK asked me to try the problem games with a 2X-Multiformat, which I will do in a few weeks.

That explains why Buck Rogers is a mess through my setup. My Extron locks everything to a 60hz output. So anything that deviates from this is going to roll. As the others are still putting out a 60hz signal, my extron is able to deal with it fine since it converts all resolutions to 640x480 output.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

As I'm not longer able to edit the 1st post for this, I thought I would mention that I released a revised version of the UAV installation guide with some new pics and better descriptions on how to handle the audio. This is something I've been meaning to do for a long time but only finally got around to it today while working on my 7800 for a different UAV related project.

 

I've already updated the link in my YT install video with this newer revision of the guide.

 

 

UAV_Installation_A7800_Revised.pdf

[+Mitch]

1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

As I'm not longer able to edit the 1st post for this

You should be able to edit it now.

 

Mitch

[+-^CrossBow^-]

8 hours ago, Mitch said:

You should be able to edit it now.

 

Mitch

Thanks Mitch! I've edited the first post with the new revised guide.

[Thran]

Sorry about digging up this old post.

 

I just ordered a UAV board with the 7800-mount kit, but I have previously installed a generic composite kit that I had to remove R3, R5 and the C10 capacitor to install.

The picture from the mod through a retrotink 2x pro shows some signal interference and is very dark, the retrotink works fine with a generic NES/SNES/Genesis console that I have, so I know it's working correctly.

 

Would the UAV setup (and the 7800) work correctly if I leave the composite mod in for the sound?

Or would it be better to undo the mod (replace the R3, R5 and C10 components) before I install the UAV.

It does sound ok with the current mod. 

 

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

You will need to reinstall at least R5 for the pokey external audio so that it will work properly through the UAV mount board setup. The way your audio is done, is NOT correct and will cause issues with some flash carts like the DragonFly and the 7800GD. This is because the audio signals are being taken directly without any filtering in the mix and as a result, they aren't actually in proper balance with each other.

 

R3 isn't critical as that is for the RF section which you have removed anyway.

 

But yes, at minimum here is what you need to do:

 

Install a jumper lead across where C10 used to be, or better, replace C10 with another 100nf ceramic capacitor.

 

You don't need to worry about R5 because the mount board has a replacement set of resistors on it along with a capacitor for mixing the TIA and external audio together. It would only require you to run a single wire from the aud output pad on the mount board back to the center jacks of your RCAs.

 

 

[Thran]

Thanks for the advice, Crossbow.  I just ordered a set of 100nf capacitors to replace the original.

 

You get what you pay for.  Anyone else considering buying a mod would be better off buying the UAV mod over a cheap ebay mod kit.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Thran

[mimo]

13 hours ago, Thran said:

Thanks for the advice, Crossbow.  I just ordered a set of 100nf capacitors to replace the original.

 

You get what you pay for.  Anyone else considering buying a mod would be better off buying the UAV mod over a cheap ebay mod kit.

Or a 7800 GameDrive cart and an RGB cable

[+-^CrossBow^-]

32 minutes ago, mimo said:

Or a 7800 GameDrive cart and an RGB cable

Until you want to play on actual cartridges or play a home brew where the ROM isn't available digitally...

 

And as @Thran is planning to get a mount board as well, he would only need to restore the connection at C10. Even just a jumper wire across the C10 location would be fine since I have a capacitor on the mount board for the output signal anyway.

 

Will still need to solder the audio pins off the mount boar to the base of the R5 and R6 resistor locations though. 

 

In fact, if you wanted a really clean setup, you can actually remove all of the resistors that the mount board attaches to and then just fit the pins into the empty vias left behind. Only have to deal with the power connections to it at that point.

 

[Thran]

I did order a set of pins when I ordered the capacitors.  I'm just trying to decide if I want to fully modify my 7800 or leave enough there to make it stock again.

 

 

 

 

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

57 minutes ago, Thran said:

I did order a set of pins when I ordered the capacitors.  I'm just trying to decide if I want to fully modify my 7800 or leave enough there to make it stock again.

 

 

 

 

 

Well the mount board itself isn't too difficult to remove if you use it and want to go back to stock later. I'm able to remove the solder enough to remove the mount once in place, but if you didn't care, you could clip the pins off the mount board just above the resistor legs to remove it and then remove the left over leg bits one by one with an iron from there. If don't carefully enough, there might be enough of the mount pins left to install it again even after cutting it off.

 

 

[Thran]

Finally got my 7800 set up with the UAV and mount board.  My setup did not look good over composite with the retrotink. 

I did the complete S-video mod and WOW.  Crystal clear output that rivals the 2600+.

 

One word of advice.  If you want to use screw terminals or pins to use with a plug, put them on the UAV board before assembly. 

Although I was able to solder pins on the board individually after assembly, it would have been much easier to install them before I attached the UAV board to the 7800 mount board. 

 

Extra thanks to CrossBow for the advice on my setup.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Thran
Bad english